Question Best x470 motherboard

[PSPS20]

Which is the best x470 for overclock? And the best in general? I heard a lot about the Aorus x470 and the AsRock x470 motherboards. In the specs the Taichi has a "Digi Power (IR Digital PWM) 16 Power Phase Design Premium 60A Power Choke Dual-Stack MOSFET (DSM), capacitors Nichicon 12K Black. The Aorus Gaming 7 has 10 Phases Vcore, 2 Phases SOC (Memory Controller) Digital Power, 40A for each Vcore Phase, 50A for each SOC phase and has 8+4 Solid-pin CPU Power Connectors like the Taichi. And the other of x470 AsRock has: Intersil Digital PWM 12 Power Phase Design Premium 45A Power Choke and capacitors Nichicon 12K Black and the same CPU Power Connectors. The other of x470 Aorus has 8+3 phase PWM + Lower RDS(on) (4+4 Parallel Power Design) [8*+3 Hybrid Digital Power Design/Hybrid Digital PWM + Lower RDS(on) MOSFETs] and Solid 8-Pin CPU Power Connector.
I JUST PUT AORUS AND ASROCK BECAUSE MSI AND ASUS DON'T SPECIFY THEIR VRM BUT IF YOU KNOW A BETTER MSI/ASUS MOTHERBOARD, TELL ME PLEASE
WHAT DO THOSE TERMS MEAN AND WHICH ONES ARE BETTER?
Please help me, I really worked a lot in this post.
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X470 Taichi Ultimate/index.asp
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X470 Taichi/index.asp
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X470 Master SLIac/index.asp
https://www.aorus.com/X470-AORUS-GAMING-7-WIFI-50-rev-11
https://www.aorus.com/product-detail.php?p=776&t=53&t2=57&t3=118
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

 

[Darkbreeze]

You do realize there is practically ZERO overclocking headroom on any of the Ryzen platforms beyond what the PBO and PBO2 configurations can offer, right? In general the consensus is that overclocking on Ryzen is generally a waste of time because the gains are so minimal IF AT ALL.

I'd be worried only about getting a board that is able to run the desired CPU without overheating the VRMs, while utilizing the maximum factory boost profile, and leave it at that because you're liable to be beating your head against a wall that isn't going to move no matter how expensive the board is or how good the VRM configuration is.

What CPU are you running? What kind of OC are you looking to achieve?

What is your memory configuration and WHICH sticks are you planning to run?

What CPU cooler are you going to be using?

If you really want a good board, the Crosshair VIII Hero, Taichi, Gaming 7 and Gaming M7 AC are all great boards. Consensus is that the Crosshair Hero, no surprise there since the Hero boards usually are the best board for the money without diving into much more expensive options, is the best overclocker at or near it's price range.

It has the following:

We see the VRM here is in a 10+2 phase mode and uses an ASP1405I PWM which is most likely an IR35201. It's in 5+2 phase mode doubled to 10+2 through five IR3599 doublers on the back of the motherboard.

Each phase for the VCore and SoC uses an IR3555M 60A PowIRstage, and a Micro-Fine Alloy choke. ASUS did something interesting this time; they positioned the two SoC phases in between VCore phases to break up thermals a bit since the SoC phases are loaded a lot less. The top six phases are VCore, and the bottom four in the "L" (if the motherboard is upright) are VCore. The memory VRM is in a 2-phase configuration and uses a Digi+ ASP1103 PWM with integrated drivers and some ON Semiconductor mini MOSFETs.

The Crosshair VII Hero has one of the best VRMs on an X470 motherboard, and that is reflected in the VRM temperatures. Topside temperatures are very low, while the backside isn't high at all. Overall, this is an excellent VRM. Anything under 60C is great, 60-80C is acceptable, and anything above 80C is a bit worrisome (if at stock).

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...hero-amd-x470-motherboard-review/index10.html



But honestly, for MOST users, considering there is not a lot to be gained with an overclock anyhow, something like the B450 Tomahawk or Gaming Pro carbon, both of which have excellent VRMs and performance/quality, are more than suitable for any of the Ryzen CPUs up to and including the 3900x.

 

[zx128k]

There is overclock head room but you have to win the silicon lottery. Some 3800x do an all cores overclock to 4.5GHz or even higher (seen only one example 4.625GHz). This is a exception and not the rule. For example you get better performance overclocking the IF to 1900 and the RAM to 3800 with as tight timings as possible. This does not require a motherboard with insane over the top VRM's.

CaseKing is providing overclocked 3700x's at 4.3GHz all cores @ 1.4 volts vcore or less. Some 3800x can do 4.4GHz @ 1.4 volts vcore or less. Sometimes even 4.5GHz if very lucky (see rare). At 4.4GHz or 4.5GHz the 3800x with an IF of 1900 and 3800 ram tightened to CL15 or CL14 will more of less destroy most 9900k systems in games (see very bottom [1]). It has a time spy cpu score above 11500. 3800x 4.4GHz all cores IF 1900 RAM 3800 CPU score 11 962 and 3800x 4.5GHz all core IF 1900 RAM 3800 CPU score 11 973 are examples of extreme RAM tweaking.

The top 3800x scores over 12k are down to tightening the RAM timings of a single RAM stick as much as possible.

Getting the best performance or scores with a Ryzen 3800x will require a binned b-die RAM kit. You can buy one like this, G.SKILL Releases Optimized DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory Kit for AMD Ryzen 3000 & X570 Platform or VENGEANCE® LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 5000MHz C18 Memory Kit - Black if you can't tighten the timings yourself. Extreme overclockers will buy these kits and then tighten the timings further but these kits cost quite a bit of money. It's easier to buy a cheap 3600 CL16 samsung b-die kit, then up the voltage to 1.5 volts and aim for cl14 @ 3800. Some kits are around £120.

Thus you have to get the most out of the RAM to get good performance at 4.4GHz all cores on a 3800x or 4.3GHz all cores on a 3700x. This is the focus of a 3800x or indeed any Ryzen overclock, tighten those RAM timings. The cores are far faster than Intel cores but there is an issue with RAM latency. Even my system can reach 11600 @ 4.3GHz all cores boost in time spy cpu on a cold day (PBO motherboard and scalar x10). Time spy cpu score 11628 A 4.4GHz 11711 Time spy cpu 11711 4.4GHz

The easiest way I can think of to overclock, is using PBO. PBO limits are set to motherboard and scalar to x10. Then get a chiller to cool your CPU. Lower temps allow the CPU to boost to higher all core speeds without having to make any effort. 265 watt chiller Expensive but should work with the 1.0.0.3 ABBA BIOS.

AMD Ryzen Frequency Scale - Temperature is Important for Ryzen 3000 CPUs

[1] Most 9900k/9900ks system time spy cpu scores.
The average time spy cpu score for the 9900k system is 10996. Average 9900k time spy cpu score
The average time spy cpu score for the 9900ks system is 11732. Average 9900ks time spy cpu score

 

[Darkbreeze]

90% of users will be happy with a mid tiered board, PBO/2 and a compatible 3200-3600mhz 16-32GB memory kit. Ryzen compatible like Flare X or Neo is nice. B-die is nicer. Anything that actually WORKS at the rated speed is good though, for most people.

If you are a tinkerer or serious overclocking enthusiast, and just like to be able to get whatever you can for free, because it's free, then zx128k advice might make a lot of sense.

Few people are in the market for binned CPUs, and those who are generally are not the type who come looking for hardware recommendations. But you never know.

 

[drea.drechsler]

There is overclock head room but you have to win the silicon lottery. ...

Just getting some extra clocks doesn't mean there's much to be actually gained by it.

That TimeSpy synthetic CPU benchmark score is about as misleading as it gets. You may be able to boost it 1000 or 2000 points but on a 10,000 point base even that's bordering insignificant. But more: I don't think it's linear because it doesn't seem to translate well into something you can see in real-world. All that work and expense, especially if you buy a CaseKing binned CPU, to achieve little if any real-world benefit. Oh, and remember you ALSO have to use their recommended motherboards and cooling, which are top-end and costly.

So that just makes it pretty darn pointless to me...really starting with 2nd gen but definitely 3rd gen CPU's. That is, of course, unless the point is chasing the benchmark results as the goal in itself.

So if the point is the BM score...wow those cold-scale Ryzen tests show us what can be done if you throw the money at it. Why no phase-change cooling rigs for 3900X's? they'd work a champ of an overclock if kept at a stable 0-10 deg. C. Phase change done right means you're protecting the processor and motherboard from condensation so long-term use is feasible.

 

[zx128k]

Just getting some extra clocks doesn't mean there's much to be actually gained by it.

That TimeSpy synthetic CPU benchmark score is about as misleading as it gets. You may be able to boost it 1000 or 2000 points but on a 10,000 point base even that's bordering insignificant. But more: I don't think it's linear because it doesn't seem to translate well into something you can see in real-world. All that work and expense, especially if you buy a CaseKing binned CPU, to achieve little if any real-world benefit. Oh, and remember you ALSO have to use their recommended motherboards and cooling, which are top-end and costly.

So that just makes it pretty darn pointless to me...really starting with 2nd gen but definitely 3rd gen CPU's. That is, of course, unless the point is chasing the benchmark results as the goal in itself.

So if the point is the BM score...wow those cold-scale Ryzen tests show us what can be done if you throw the money at it. Why no phase-change cooling rigs for 3900X's? they'd work a champ of an overclock if kept at a stable 0-10 deg. C. Phase change done right means you're protecting the processor and motherboard from condensation so long-term use is feasible.

The 9900k overclock the same way. A 9900ks is 10700 with stock RAM speed but if you overclock the RAM you get 11700. In games the performance increase is there as well.

Intel Core i9-9900KS 5GHz (8C16T) CPU Review - KitGuru

In a clear effort to stamp its clock frequency and gaming performance authority over AMD, Intel has

www.kitguru.net

A 9900ks with 3200 CL14 RAM.

With my 3800x I am 11711 https://www.3dmark.com/spy/9431106. Were does that put me on this chart? Also in games I am not slower that the 9900k fps wise.

The time spy cpu score is based on the fourth part of the CPU test's fps. The lowest fps at the end. What is your evidence that Time Spy's CPU benchmark score is misleading?

What did you think of tomshardware using 3d mark as well? Is tomhardware being misleading too?

9900k/ks 3200 CL14 overclocked to RAM DDR4-3600 https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...XDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V16GB-(2x8GB)

Why is the 9900k and 9900ks, 5GHz all cores and 5.2GHz all cores so close together? 11755 and 11880. That's very few points for 200 Mhz.

3800x 4.4GHz OC 11711 https://www.3dmark.com/spy/9431106
9900k 5Ghz OC 11755
3800x 4.5GHz OC 11839 - extreme core clock. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/41423760
9900ks 5.2GHz OC 11880 - extreme core clock.

3800x is not bad for 600-700 MHz less core clock. Time spy extreme the 9900k/9900ks will win but in games the 3800x will be decent.

 

[Darkbreeze]

There is NO single benchmark that is representative of actual real world performance, unless all you are running is THAT benchmark. Which is why places like Anandtech bench give you MANY different results of tens of benchmarks, so you can get an idea of the bigger picture.

 

[zx128k]

There is NO single benchmark that is representative of actual real world performance, unless all you are running is THAT benchmark. Which is why places like Anandtech bench give you MANY different results of tens of benchmarks, so you can get an idea of the bigger picture.

Do you really want me to post lots of benchmarks? The last time I did it was the same outcome as the time spy cpu score. Some games like world of tanks encore went to intel and others went to AMD.

Also note an extreme 9900ks 5.2GHz all cores overclock, with high frequency and/or tight timing timings is still 1st place in games. This does not mean the 3800x is not able to match many 9900k builds once correctly overclocked.

 

[Karadjgne]

Why buy a X470? You could get an Asus X570 Tuff Gaming or Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite for far less than the higher grade X470's at $180, and both of those 2 boards run the same mosfets as the $300+ mobo's.

And they'll run a 3950x without issue.

View: https://youtu.be/zuyuS04lD4o

View: https://youtu.be/OMRUhtMs9Ok

@zx128k
Does who comes in first place make any difference whatsoever considering the fps output is generally so far past any monitor refresh and most gpu capability that it's a totally non user distinguishable number? And the KS at 5.2GHz is also a rich man's, cash burning a hole in his pocket pipe dream since it'll take a decent full custom loop just to cool its almost 300w output.

When the speed limit is 70mph, you don't need to drop $100k+ on a Ferrari to get that in 5 seconds, when any decent car can get it in 10. And what good is 300mph capability anywhere but a benchmark on a race track.

Some things seriously are not that important, and really not worth the time to argue about.

 

[zx128k]

Games like metro exodus you will be lucky to get a constant minimum frame rate above 60fps at 1080p with RTX on with most systems.

 

[Karadjgne]

Exactly.
This is with an i7-8700k, so gpus are the limiting factor, not the cpu, which is capable of more than the gpu can supply. So who really cares if the 5.2GHz KS can supply 300fps or the 3800k supplies 280 fps, the absolute best you can do is @ 150 on screen.

 

[zx128k]

Exactly.
This is with an i7-8700k, so gpus are the limiting factor, not the cpu, which is capable of more than the gpu can supply. So who really cares if the 5.2GHz KS can supply 300fps or the 3800k supplies 280 fps, the absolute best you can do is @ 150 on screen.

Basically a 8700k (8086 cpu) system with all cores 5GHz overclock if I remember that article correctly. Not really an average system when you think about it.

That's also results without using the benchmark tool.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_exodus_pc_graphics_performance_benchmarks,6.html

This is with the benchmark tool.

 

[zx128k]

• Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5 GHz (8 cores & 8 threads)
• Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master moederbord
• G.Skill Trident Z 2x8 GB DDR4-3200 CL14 geheugen
• Seasonic Prime Titanium 1200W voeding
• 2x Samsung 970 Evo 1TB ssd
• NZXT Kraken X62 processorkoeler
• Windows 10 Pro x64 (1809)

https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/90...kaart-overleeft-de-post-apocalyptische-wereld



3800x IF1900 RAM 3800CL15 85fps

 

[zx128k]

Benchmark Tool.
Results: Average Framerate: 192.96
Max. Framerate: 349.41 (Frame: 27063)
Min. Framerate: 33.52 (Frame: 8) Settings:
Resolution: 1920x1080 Quality: Very High SSAA: Off Texture filtering: AF 16X Motion Blur: Off Tesselation: Very High VSync: Off Advanced PhysX: On

Test Bench: Intel 9900k Processor Overclocked to 5.0ghz All Cores No AVX Offset (1.27V)
Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 OC Edition

3800x - 201fps

There is a point were faster RAM frequencies and/or tighter RAM timings let the 9900k/9900ks pull ahead.

 

[zx128k]

Shadow of the Tomb Raider Benchmark 720p/1080p Low Resolution Tests
i9-9900K @ 4.9GHz all cores 1.25V G.SKILL TridentZ DDR4 3200 CAS 14
EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti XC Gaming @ Stock 100% Power Limit

Average FPS 139fps. 1080p

3800x - RTX 2080 - 141fps

 

[Karadjgne]

Who cares? Seriously.

 

[zx128k]

Who cares? Seriously.

Clearly you do, well enough to post making a big deal pretending you don't care.

To the OP, there is a spreadsheet you can look at here https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...yzen-cpus-sortable-comparison-tables.3110172/

Spreadsheet here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/htmlview#

Another spreadsheet here,
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Also a forum post here,
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html

Also a forum post here,
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/x570-and-am4-motherboard-vrm-info/144608

These cover most of the AM4 motherboards and what they can do.

The best overclocking motherboards for AM4 current are the most expensive x570 boards. Except the asrock x570 aqua. The Gigabyte aorus xtreme is a true 16 phase VRM design, 14+2 which should help get the best overclock out of any CPU. This is not to imply that cheaper boards don't have VRM's that can get the job done.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...-x570-chipset-eatx-motherboard-mb-57s-gi.html

Use the spreadsheets, they have the information you need.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Do you really want me to post lots of benchmarks? The last time I did it was the same outcome as the time spy cpu score. Some games like world of tanks encore went to intel and others went to AMD.

Also note an extreme 9900ks 5.2GHz all cores overclock, with high frequency and/or tight timing timings is still 1st place in games. This does not mean the 3800x is not able to match many 9900k builds once correctly overclocked.

Actually, I don't REALLY want you to do anything. You do as you please, so long as it remains civil, within the rules and guidelines and pertains to the thread in a meaningful way. If it doesn't, I'll whack it.

Let's end the pissing contest and get back to RELEVANT discussion, and by relevant, I don't mean there is a single thread holding the topic to the tapestry.

 

[Schlachtwolf]

On topic I have an Asus Rog Strix x470 with a Ryzen 2700x and it got a stable base OC to 4.3. But as everyone has different components and cooling it may not work for everyone. I think it's a greally good board that is affordable allows a bit of fun and fun overclocking.

Still after all that messing around, guess what, I set it back to level 3 Bios auto OC as the heat and therefore fan noise was not worth the relatively small gains in real life prefornance. Yes Benchmarks were better but in game not really much. And if I get 120 or 125 fps my old eyes 'aint gonna notice....

 

[zx128k]

On topic I have an Asus Rog Strix x470 with a Ryzen 2700x and it got a stable base OC to 4.3. But as everyone has different components and cooling it may not work for everyone. I think it's a greally good board that is affordable allows a bit of fun and fun overclocking.

Still after all that messing around, guess what, I set it back to level 3 Bios auto OC as the heat and therefore fan noise was not worth the relatively small gains in real life prefornance. Yes Benchmarks were better but in game not really much. And if I get 120 or 125 fps my old eyes 'aint gonna notice....

For the OP who might find this useful. AMD Ryzen 7 2700X OC. The x470-F hits 4.34-4.44GHz and 1.39-1.47 volts vcore. VRMs temps of 70c. https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_strix_x470-f_gaming_review/3

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_strix_x470-f_gaming_review/15