News Biden to Address Chip Shortages, Semiconductor Supply Chains

Giroro

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Well we don't have the money to build government sponsored fabs, and we can't print enough money to undercut Chinese subsidies... So good luck to the administration at coming up with a way to uproot a multitrillion dollar supply chain that's dominated by a dictatorship which very much intends to keep it. They need to come up with something a lot better than the "Give up and write a speech that American manufacturing is gone forever" strategy or the "Tarriffs definitely are paid by the foreign governments themselves, and not passed on to customers" strategy.
 
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ginthegit

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I am both not American and also not a Biden fan (or a Trump fan, for that matter), so lets clear that up first.

Personally I think this is one of the better moves from Biden to make a discovery on why the Silicon Industry is suffering a bottle neck. I think a government protecting its constituents from ultra high pricing is a good thing, and one of the more valid reasons for having a government; to protect you.

However it will get nowhere! Why because these shortages are usually artificial, but not always, due to the industry knowing there is high demand of Electronics in a lockdown, and thus garner more profit per product.

The Rarety price fluctuations of the stock markets are one of the Principle problems with the western capitalism, and I am sorry, because Trump is more a part of that than Biden is, making Trump a hero of the right, but also a hero of Rarety based capitalism too, which is half of the problem in itself.

Rarety based capitalist structures of the USA and the EEC (EU), have controlled prices and allowed Cartels in Oil, Electronics and Chemicals to Florish, and using the stock markets, to pretend valid reasons for shortages and screw the consumer in the process (while paying its own CEOs massive salaries). Thanks too Ultra Capitalists like Trump, the Economy and GDP is not based on the health of Consumers and the constituents in a finacial way, but that of the stock market and the large corporations (along with House pricing bubbles),

In the mouth of Trump, " ITS ALL FAKE!" He is fake, Biden is fake, and though on the outwards they seem different, they are the same with screwing over people. Trump seems the lesser of the evils, as he believes in conservatism, but he has also thrown more power to the corporations... and it was Trump that signed the Vaccination Mandates that are basically allowing the Phama industry to SCREW YOU UP! HE DID IT! Biden hates that fact, not that he can't take credit for it; more because he can't get his nice Bribe or Special Returns that Trump will. It's all very 1984 with Trump as Big brothers Little brother.

But back to the point, All Biden will find out, is that the supply chain is a fake Bottle neck, he'll get a fat check to then slow the discovery down, and this problem will continue until the Silicon industry decides to end it, and He will take the Credit.

On the otherhand, the Ruthless Persuit of Moores law, and the Tik Tok cycle also demands Intel and AMD need to overcome the Quantum problems that come with the Shrinking of Transistor sizes . They have found solutions in the RARE EARTH MATERIALS that are abundant in Russia and China, so Biden will not be able to Coax Russia because the Mines are all private, so he cosied up with China (as we all know).
If China refuse to sell the Rare earth matrials over a quota (which they decided to do a few years back), Bidens discovery will be quick and fruitless unless he scratches their back (which will happen).

Politics is a dirty game; All the politicians and Business men are corrupt, and that includes both Trump and Biden.
 
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Anybody who knows my previous post knows how much I want the US off China's teet. It's a national security thing. And when China steamrolls taiwan in the next couple years, TSMC is a hostage point against us. China's ambitions are clear with jailing of opposition and burnings of free press.

I would practically pay for a new fab to be built here in the USA on the condition 1) we get to say when it shuts down and 2) it gets upgraded to newest nodes when available. (Also paid for by us) and they keep profits unless China is hostile and takes over taiwan.
 

gdmaclew

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I am both not American and also not a Biden fan (or a Trump fan, for that matter), so lets clear that up first.

Personally I think this is one of the better moves from Biden to make a discovery on why the Silicon Industry is suffering a bottle neck. I think a government protecting its constituents from ultra high pricing is a good thing, and one of the more valid reasons for having a government; to protect you.

However it will get nowhere! Why because these shortages are usually artificial, but not always, due to the industry knowing there is high demand of Electronics in a lockdown, and thus garner more profit per product.

The Rarety price fluctuations of the stock markets are one of the Principle problems with the western capitalism, and I am sorry, because Trump is more a part of that than Biden is, making Trump a hero of the right, but also a hero of Rarety based capitalism too, which is half of the problem in itself.

Rarety based capitalist structures of the USA and the EEC (EU), have controlled prices and allowed Cartels in Oil, Electronics and Chemicals to Florish, and using the stock markets, to pretend valid reasons for shortages and screw the consumer in the process (while paying its own CEOs massive salaries). Thanks too Ultra Capitalists like Trump, the Economy and GDP is not based on the health of Consumers and the constituents in a finacial way, but that of the stock market and the large corporations (along with House pricing bubbles),

In the mouth of Trump, " ITS ALL FAKE!" He is fake, Biden is fake, and though on the outwards they seem different, they are the same with screwing over people. Trump seems the lesser of the evils, as he believes in conservatism, but he has also thrown more power to the corporations... and it was Trump that signed the Vaccination Mandates that are basically allowing the Phama industry to SCREW YOU UP! HE DID IT! Biden hates that fact, not that he can't take credit for it; more because he can't get his nice Bribe or Special Returns that Trump will. It's all very 1984 with Trump as Big brothers Little brother.

But back to the point, All Biden will find out, is that the supply chain is a fake Bottle neck, he'll get a fat check to then slow the discovery down, and this problem will continue until the Silicon industry decides to end it, and He will take the Credit.

On the otherhand, the Ruthless Persuit of Moores law, and the Tik Tok cycle also demands Intel and AMD need to overcome the Quantum problems that come with the Shrinking of Transistor sizes . They have found solutions in the RARE EARTH MATERIALS that are abundant in Russia and China, so Biden will not be able to Coax Russia because the Mines are all private, so he cosied up with China (as we all know).
If China refuse to sell the Rare earth matrials over a quota (which they decided to do a few years back), Bidens discovery will be quick and fruitless unless he scratches their back (which will happen).

Politics is a dirty game; All the politicians and Business men are corrupt, and that includes both Trump and Biden.
Canada has one of the largest supplies of Rare Earths in the world. Now all we need to do is develop them.
 
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drinking12many

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Canada has one of the largest supplies of Rare Earths in the world. Now all we need to do is develop them.
A few years back a company in the US name Molycorp reopened a rare earth mine in CA and spent billions to meet environmental regulations to re-open it... then china dumped minerals on the market they couldn't compete and went bankrupt. That was one of the dumbest things the US ever did from a strategic supply perspective. The US has done nothing to help many industries which should be considered vital to national defense in the supplier side of the market and its been an absolutely stupid action. Another company did buy the mine after bankruptcy but last I saw they still had to send the minerals to china to be processed....dumb.
 
I agree with the above statements regarding politics as being a giant farce. In reality they are all on the same side and against their constituents. It’s a big crap show to keep us busy and dancing like monkeys whenever they play a tune.

They are nothing more than puppets put up there by the 1% that control everything. Politicians have no wish to do good all they want to do is increase their own personal gain and they are in bed with the corporations. Our media is owned buy that one percent that control everything as well so you can’t trust anything they say. Basically everything that you read on the news is a lie. I hate to break it to people here but there is no such thing as free press either it’s all owned by the ruling scum

The only people that are drawn towards politics are pure scum
 
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hallby81

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A few years back a company in the US name Molycorp reopened a rare earth mine in CA and spent billions to meet environmental regulations to re-open it... then china dumped minerals on the market they couldn't compete and went bankrupt. That was one of the dumbest things the US ever did from a strategic supply perspective. The US has done nothing to help many industries which should be considered vital to national defense in the supplier side of the market and its been an absolutely stupid action. Another company did buy the mine after bankruptcy but last I saw they still had to send the minerals to china to be processed....dumb.
Well, mining and processing Rare Earth minerals is a dangerous and VERY dirty process. Hence why it cost Molycorp billions of dollars to open it back up. I can't even imagine the amount of money the state of CA received in "permit" fees. Its also why China is the leader in mining and processing those minerals. Its because they don't care about worker safety or whether they wreck the local ecosystem. I mean for the love of God, this is the same country that hosts the Foxconn factory that instead of dealing with the high rates of suicide because they are working employees 14-16 hours a day- 7 days a week, they just put up a giant net around the plant perimeter instead. Also, no industry is truly independent in China. Every plant, business, mine, etc. has a cheery, happy-go-lucky Communist Party Commissar.... I mean "official" to "assist" with employee relations and "tax" collection.
 
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jtrox02

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Dec 26, 2019
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I am both not American and also not a Biden fan (or a Trump fan, for that matter), so lets clear that up first.

Personally I think this is one of the better moves from Biden to make a discovery on why the Silicon Industry is suffering a bottle neck. I think a government protecting its constituents from ultra high pricing is a good thing, and one of the more valid reasons for having a government; to protect you.

However it will get nowhere! Why because these shortages are usually artificial, but not always, due to the industry knowing there is high demand of Electronics in a lockdown, and thus garner more profit per product.

The Rarety price fluctuations of the stock markets are one of the Principle problems with the western capitalism, and I am sorry, because Trump is more a part of that than Biden is, making Trump a hero of the right, but also a hero of Rarety based capitalism too, which is half of the problem in itself.

Rarety based capitalist structures of the USA and the EEC (EU), have controlled prices and allowed Cartels in Oil, Electronics and Chemicals to Florish, and using the stock markets, to pretend valid reasons for shortages and screw the consumer in the process (while paying its own CEOs massive salaries). Thanks too Ultra Capitalists like Trump, the Economy and GDP is not based on the health of Consumers and the constituents in a finacial way, but that of the stock market and the large corporations (along with House pricing bubbles),

In the mouth of Trump, " ITS ALL FAKE!" He is fake, Biden is fake, and though on the outwards they seem different, they are the same with screwing over people. Trump seems the lesser of the evils, as he believes in conservatism, but he has also thrown more power to the corporations... and it was Trump that signed the Vaccination Mandates that are basically allowing the Phama industry to SCREW YOU UP! HE DID IT! Biden hates that fact, not that he can't take credit for it; more because he can't get his nice Bribe or Special Returns that Trump will. It's all very 1984 with Trump as Big brothers Little brother.

But back to the point, All Biden will find out, is that the supply chain is a fake Bottle neck, he'll get a fat check to then slow the discovery down, and this problem will continue until the Silicon industry decides to end it, and He will take the Credit.

On the otherhand, the Ruthless Persuit of Moores law, and the Tik Tok cycle also demands Intel and AMD need to overcome the Quantum problems that come with the Shrinking of Transistor sizes . They have found solutions in the RARE EARTH MATERIALS that are abundant in Russia and China, so Biden will not be able to Coax Russia because the Mines are all private, so he cosied up with China (as we all know).
If China refuse to sell the Rare earth matrials over a quota (which they decided to do a few years back), Bidens discovery will be quick and fruitless unless he scratches their back (which will happen).

Politics is a dirty game; All the politicians and Business men are corrupt, and that includes both Trump and Biden.
Yes! Bravo! I like Trump but you are spot on about the vaccines. I will never forgive him for that. That and initiating the unconstitutional shutdowns and not doing more to stop them.
 

Gurg

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Anybody who knows my previous post knows how much I want the US off China's teet. It's a national security thing. And when China steamrolls taiwan in the next couple years, TSMC is a hostage point against us. China's ambitions are clear with jailing of opposition and burnings of free press.

I would practically pay for a new fab to be built here in the USA on the condition 1) we get to say when it shuts down and 2) it gets upgraded to newest nodes when available. (Also paid for by us) and they keep profits unless China is hostile and takes over taiwan.
LOL! Bill Gates could personally fund 6 massive state of the art fabs as could Bezos. This has nothing to do with a shortage of money to build fabs.

As for Biden, anyone really think Biden knows how to turn on a PC let alone what a computer chip is?
 
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While I love to see USA manufacturing, there are some cons in this case.

I see it as very difficult to have a chip fab in USA, mostly for the same reasons that most tech products are made in China.

The main issue is cost. You can't use nearly free Chinese labor. You have to actually pay your employees a livable salary, give them benefits, etc. Additionally, its not cheap to start a new fab. All of this will drive up the cost of production and make these chips more expensive than Chinese silicon.

I see it going one of too ways.
  1. The fab immediately fails since everyone buys the cheaper Chinese offerings, and we are back to square one.
  2. The government gives it money/subsites to keep in business, and/or throws tariffs on forign silicon, potentially starting a trade war.
As I was thinking earlier, the government having influence in these chip fabs could cause security issues with backdoors, etc. I would rather have the USA government spying than the Chinese government, I guess.

A US based fab that wasn't founded or heavily influenced by the government would be better, but I don't see this as possible due to the government basically being required (for money) in order for a US based chip fab to survive.
 

Co BIY

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I see it as very difficult to have a chip fab in USA, mostly for the same reasons that most tech products are made in China.
2 of Intel's 3 10nm production fabs are in the US. The other is is in Israel (also not a slave labor country).

It is hard to make competitively priced low-margin products in high wage countries.

Very valuable products can be profitably made in both.

I believe that products can be ethically made in low-wage countries.

It is harder to justify making products in countries with actively repressive governments. Especially if your manufacturing benefits from those repressive policies, rewards the repressive leaders and reinforces their importance in the global economic system.
 

Gurg

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While I haven't seen more recent financials for a US fab, the fab worker hourly rates were not really that high and total labor costs paled beside the depreciation, utility costs and material costs. Onsite engineers, testing, maintenance tech wages, financial and HR wages were appropriate for their skill levels and community cost of living. You would not build a fab in a high cost labor market, but on the flip side would not pick an area without a decent labor pool to draw needed workers.

Most of the people you see inside a fab in bunny suits handling the cassettes of disks are lower wage and skilled workers, just scanning the cassettes and moving them from machine to machine. No heavy lifting involved. The cost to automate product transfer and movement however would cost too much to make it practical. On flip side every worker in the fab contributes to contamination which can impact quality and yields.

Low skilled fab labor turnover is relatively high as many people simply can't stand the required cleanliness and the constriction of working in a bunny suit with masks, goggles, no deodorants, scented shampoos or makeup etc.
 
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ginthegit

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Yes! Bravo! I like Trump but you are spot on about the vaccines. I will never forgive him for that. That and initiating the unconstitutional shutdowns and not doing more to stop them.
This is not me making political points nor to point fingers at Trump, it is more an example to show more supporting evidence that Trump is as bad as Biden, but in a very different way. He is mega rich, and also ruthless. I don't think he is a Swamper, and I think he seemed clueless to his opposition (in terms or its intensity) because he did not see that the enemy was also within. His support of the vaccines was a dumb ass move, but in the name of opening up a collapsing market, he saw it as the lesser of the two evils.

Biden is a Leftist who wants to institute this Glabal reset that is not so hidden any more and certainly no longer a conspiracy theory (thanks to the WEF).

Trump is a Die hard capitalist who pressed the government in to continual servitude to the Finance being the centre of our lives. Here in the UK, the Government just copies what the USA politics does a year down the road. So Boris loved Trump, but now hes gone, he shows disdain for Trump and wants to climb in bed with Biden. Trumps connections are all people with money, but no matter how much he wants to help us little people (which i genuinely think he was trying to do), he will never understand us due to him NEVER living a life any of us have lived. he has no Empathy with us and can only care for us as a LORD used to love his Peasants in the old Feudal system.

Here in the UK the critical race theory cannot hold because we had the Feudal system that basically made all Peasants Slaves to their Lords. So the British people, up until around 1600 -1700 were largely slaves regardless of colour. The British Navy (hence the song Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the waves) was not so much about Naval dominance, but to stop Piracy, and Seljuk invaders Raiding the Cornish and Devon coasts to take white slaves from us to sell in North Africa and the middle east.

Don't hate Trump because of the Vaccine, he was just dumb in thinking it was a lesser of two evils. But his problem is largely, he sees the solution as Finance, not of Poverty. The only way to destroy the swamp is to get Congress to repeal the Federal reserve act... This is why the Fed killed JFK... He was starting to print Government Fiat and was about to repeal the Fed reserve act. He had to die for the swamp to live... But of course it was the actions of 1 man who was in two different places at the same time.
 
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ginthegit

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2 of Intel's 3 10nm production fabs are in the US. The other is is in Israel (also not a slave labor country).

It is hard to make competitively priced low-margin products in high wage countries.

Very valuable products can be profitably made in both.

I believe that products can be ethically made in low-wage countries.

It is harder to justify making products in countries with actively repressive governments. Especially if your manufacturing benefits from those repressive policies, rewards the repressive leaders and reinforces their importance in the global economic system.
Very over simplified. The UN sees Israel as a Partial slave labour country for using the Palestinians as workers and under paying them instead. Not that Palestinians are now only being Vaccinated and only the ones that have permits to work in Israel Territory. So i think you need to stop listening to the BS you are fed.

Low wage countries are a way to induce slavery also. It means that we have a system that relies on Globalism and there is a big problem with this. If a countries government takes control of a low profit industry, they can take the losses (which they do anyway in industry with subsidies) at 0 benefit to the consumer as they get no discount for the tax money they inject to keep the companies (private controlled) that they keep afloat.

American and indeed here in the UK, we have repressive governments that using stock markets allow Bubbles on prices (like property) that places the majority of the population is Financial poverty. We think low wage countries get it worse, but they pay far less for property and food, so it is all relative. The whole Currency value is all controlled and manipulated.

Thanks to that idiot Bill Clinton, the rest of the world suffered with Hikes in Oil prices. When he unsigned Woodrow Wilson's 1929 Treaty of Oil prices that prevented the Cartel'ing of oil, we all got screwed, and in the UK, Tony Blair made it illegal to Protest spontaneously as a result of the democratic process ... Which is equivalent to Communist, Stalinist style of repression before he got full control of peoples lives by their consent by stealth... It was only after this consent that Communism became repressive.

All countries can become mostly self Sustainable, but these globalists make that impossible with this World trade and Cheaper off sourcing. Only when the Global reset (the WEF is now OPENLY pushing), will it go back to self sustainability to fulfill their 0 NET emissions.

We have a local open cast mine about 2 miles from my house, and Rare earth materials is no more difficult than the sifting process of the stones here (4 different types) and the Oil refining in Texas. Our repressive governments make it financially impossible due to taxes, legal fees and higher wages (coinciding with high prices of life also allowed by the governments).

As an Engineer that work abroad, I know is all BS. Seen it all before. In some countries where I worked it became very predictable. And yes they treat various People (depending on passport territories) very differently, but they still (because of different wages in there own respective countries), get paid more than they would in their own countries, which is excellent, but get paid less than westerners) for doing the same job.

If America really wanted to mine its own Rare earth materials, it could if it wanted to, but it doesn't, so it makes it expensive through taxes and legislation to make the public believe that it is not viable.
 

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