BIG AMD PROBLEM

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Hi its not big per-say :D

just i want to replace my CPU fan from the stock one, because im
getting heats of 52*C+ when playing games like CS; S

Just the last time my bro tried to replace the stock fan in his PC it
didnt boot up.

What happenedn to his, was he repalced the stock fan, installed it
correctly, it had a heatpad on the bottom of it, im not sure whether
he put anytihng else on, and he booted up, after everything was
normal, but it didnt boot up. We took it to a proffesional and
aparnlty the bios wiped it self, or the motherbaord was gone or
something of the sort.

I don't want to risk damaging my computer, but the heat is affecting
my gameplay!! if somebody couldgive me safety precautions or what not
to do when installing a new fan, i woudl appriciate it, i woudl also
appriciate if someboy could guide me to a good AMD athlon 3200+
fan/cpu heatsink, which would birng the heat right down!!!

THANKSSS!!!

if you can help me pm me or add me to msn messenger,
xtreme126@hotmail.com!
 
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I wouldn't worry about the heat of the processor going over 52C. I've
seen mine go over 60C. The Athlon was designed to withstand a maximum
of 90-95C.

Really what is much more important than the temperature of the CPU is
the temperature of the chipset. Those chipsets aren't designed for high
heat, and I've noticed that data becomes unreliable when the chipset
goes over 40C. It's the chipset that you really should be monitoring.

Yousuf Khan
 
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Xtreme126 <xtreme126@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
> just i want to replace my CPU fan from the stock one, because
> im getting heats of 52*C+ when playing games like CS; S

Chill! [pun intended] This is not a problem. The AMD XP
3200+ is spec'd to 85'C, and even with the usual (large)
offset between die and mobo sensors, you are almost certainly
within spec. Furthermore, even if you are overwarm, AFAIK the
K7 doesn't have thermal throttling (unlike the P7 Pentium4)
so will just run hot, not slow down.

> I don't want to risk damaging my computer,

Then don't do anything beyond your skill set. One simple
thing is to feel the case back, sides and check exhaust
fan temperatures. If any of these are overwarm, then you
may have poor case airflow. Fix it by making sure all vents
have clear, fresh airflow. No carpets, papers or jamming
into corners that force recirculation.

If you feel comfortable removing case covers, you can blow
dust out from CPU & GPU heatsinks, power supply and vents.
Mine (on 24/7) need blowing every year or so. YMMV. Canned
air is sold for this purpose. You might also look at case
airflow from the inlet vents to the exhausts and make sure
there are no obstructions like flat ribbon cables. If there
are, you may be able to move them gently out of the way.

> but the heat is affecting my gameplay!!

How, precisely? You're a gamer, so I presume you've got
an advanced/expensive video card. These can produce a lot
of heat, and cause lockups if they're not properly cooled.

You may also have acquired a software problem. MS-Windows
is a popular target for various trojans and worms. All
operating systems without QoS can run into trouble with
bandwidth hogs like poorly-configured P2P apps.

-- Robert
 
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YKhan <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote:
> Really what is much more important than the temperature of
> the CPU is the temperature of the chipset. Those chipsets
> aren't designed for high heat, and I've noticed that data
> becomes unreliable when the chipset goes over 40C. It's
> the chipset that you really should be monitoring.

I'm not sure about more recent chipsets, but I know the
i440BX is spec'd for 105'C. People did report that cooling
it helped, but I'm not so sure. It might need a heatslug
more than a heatsink.

Or a problem may be voltage regulators and increased
noise/crosstalk on those 64 bit wide memory busses if
the substrate has a temperature gradient.

-- Robert
 
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Xtreme126 wrote:

> just i want to replace my CPU fan from the stock one, because im
> getting heats of 52*C+ when playing games like CS; S
>
> Just the last time my bro tried to replace the stock fan in his PC it
> didnt boot up.
>
> What happenedn to his, was he repalced the stock fan, installed it
> correctly, it had a heatpad on the bottom of it, im not sure whether
> he put anytihng else on, and he booted up, after everything was
> normal, but it didnt boot up. We took it to a proffesional and
> aparnlty the bios wiped it self, or the motherbaord was gone or
> something of the sort.
>
> I don't want to risk damaging my computer, but the heat is affecting
> my gameplay!!

How is it affecting your gameplay?

> if somebody couldgive me safety precautions or what not
> to do when installing a new fan, i woudl appriciate it, i woudl also
> appriciate if someboy could guide me to a good AMD athlon 3200+
> fan/cpu heatsink, which would birng the heat right down!!!

Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/26951.pdf

System Building Guide
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_9342,00.html

Processor and Heatsink Installation Videos
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348%5E6678,00.html

--
Regards, Grumble
 
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The gaming problems i get arnt in the online games, its all motly in
offline games, i got alot of sluggyness in half life 2 single palyer,
and the poitn was, ive repalced my GFX cards stock fan, because lets
face it, that small thing did nothing, and i have an arrctic cooling
one, and ive got the ati softmod

i tihnk itsa all down to my gfx card i suppose, an ati radeon 9500
pro, doesnt cut it now adays, the softmod has suppsoedly made it run
at 9700pro

either way ill look into it
also, just lie kto say, the cpu cooler repalcement is beyond me, im
always doing stuff in my computer, jsut after what ahppened to my
bros pc, kinda made me warey of what coudl happen.

eitherway thanks all :D
 

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On 2 May 2005 07:05:02 -0700 "YKhan" <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote in Message
id: <1115042702.404754.212180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:

>I've noticed that data becomes unreliable when the chipset
>goes over 40C.

What POS chipset is unreliable above 40c?
 
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Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> YKhan <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Really what is much more important than the temperature of
>>the CPU is the temperature of the chipset. Those chipsets
>>aren't designed for high heat, and I've noticed that data
>>becomes unreliable when the chipset goes over 40C. It's
>>the chipset that you really should be monitoring.
>
>
> I'm not sure about more recent chipsets, but I know the
> i440BX is spec'd for 105'C. People did report that cooling
> it helped, but I'm not so sure. It might need a heatslug
> more than a heatsink.

105C or 105F?

Yousuf Khan
 
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Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> I'm not sure about more recent chipsets, but I know the
> i440BX is spec'd for 105'C. People did report that cooling
> it helped, but I'm not so sure. It might need a heatslug
> more than a heatsink.

If it is 105F then that equals 41C, exactly what I was talking about.

Yousuf Khan
 
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Trent wrote:
> On 2 May 2005 07:05:02 -0700 "YKhan" <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote in Message
> id: <1115042702.404754.212180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>>I've noticed that data becomes unreliable when the chipset
>>goes over 40C.
>
>
> What POS chipset is unreliable above 40c?

All of them. If you start seeing a chipset start approaching 40C then
you should be worried. Most of the time, they will hover around 30-35C
they usually don't go up or down much with processor activity, but they
do go up and down with dust build up.

Yousuf Khan
 
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In article <gFJde.5386$3U.434353@news20.bellglobal.com>, bbbl67
@ezrs.com says...
> Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> > I'm not sure about more recent chipsets, but I know the
> > i440BX is spec'd for 105'C. People did report that cooling
> > it helped, but I'm not so sure. It might need a heatslug
> > more than a heatsink.
>
> If it is 105F then that equals 41C, exactly what I was talking about.

No, and absolute maximum of 105C Tcase. See section 2.2:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/27321903.pdf
"The 82443BX is designed for operation at case temperatures
between 0C and 105C."

Most electronics are speced for a *least* an 85C Tjunction, with some
power devices (like the IRL3103) going to 175C Tj. 100C isn't unusual
at all for Tj on commercial grade electronics. PCs I've worked on have
a 45C Tambient temperature limit around the electronics (55C Ta for the
drives).

--
Keith
 

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On Tue, 03 May 2005 07:57:59 -0400 Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in
Message id: <jHJde.5387$3U.434560@news20.bellglobal.com>:

>Trent wrote:
>> On 2 May 2005 07:05:02 -0700 "YKhan" <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote in Message
>> id: <1115042702.404754.212180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>>I've noticed that data becomes unreliable when the chipset
>>>goes over 40C.
>>
>>
>> What POS chipset is unreliable above 40c?
>
>All of them. If you start seeing a chipset start approaching 40C then
>you should be worried. Most of the time, they will hover around 30-35C
>they usually don't go up or down much with processor activity, but they
>do go up and down with dust build up.

Nonsense. We spec. in embedded boards with VIA chipsets that'll do 60C air
temperature for example. The actual chipset runs 15C or so higher, and
they're the same chips that would be used in any motherboard. See
http://www.netcomipc.com.tw/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=1813&osCsid=4ee9a698c5f7c499db9b7ff43202192b

If you're seeing boards become flakey when the chipset temperature reaches
40C I would suspect the board design, not the chips themselves.
 
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On Tue, 03 May 2005 07:57:59 -0400, Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@ezrs.com>
wrote:

>> What POS chipset is unreliable above 40c?
>
>All of them. If you start seeing a chipset start approaching 40C then
>you should be worried. Most of the time, they will hover around 30-35C
>they usually don't go up or down much with processor activity, but they
>do go up and down with dust build up.

Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
of which can go above 40C in my environment.

--
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The little lost angel wrote:

> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
> of which can go above 40C in my environment.

I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.

Yousuf Khan
 
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"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message
news:Jsaee.5724$VL3.489333@news20.bellglobal.com...
> The little lost angel wrote:
>
>> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
>> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
>> of which can go above 40C in my environment.
>
> I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.
>
> Yousuf Khan

The systems I did stuff for had 38.6 degrees and 7000 feet altitude as
environmental maximums. I always thought of it as an un-airconditioned
office in Mexico City in the Summer.

del cecchi
 

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On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:42:13 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> The little lost angel wrote:
>
>> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
>> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
>> of which can go above 40C in my environment.
>
> I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.

What case? Yousuf, I think you'd better study temperature measurements a
little closer. Don't trust whatever the motherboard is telling you. The
*fact* is that an *ambient* temperature around the chips of up to 45C is
just fine. In fact it really doesn't matter what that temperature is.
It's only the chip's junction temperature that matters (much). Indeed the
junction temperature is a reliability issue and that can be traded off for
function (or marketing).

--
Keith
 

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On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:54:23 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:

>
> "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message
> news:Jsaee.5724$VL3.489333@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> The little lost angel wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
>>> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
>>> of which can go above 40C in my environment.
>>
>> I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>
> The systems I did stuff for had 38.6 degrees and 7000 feet altitude as
> environmental maximums. I always thought of it as an un-airconditioned
> office in Mexico City in the Summer.

All the PC class hardware I've worked on was 45C inside the case, around
the motherboard (55C ambient around the drives). IIRC that was at a
maximum of 5K'. You've been pampered. ;-)

--
Keith
 
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"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.05.02.18.47.53244@att.bizzzz...
> On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:54:23 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:
>
>>
>> "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message
>> news:Jsaee.5724$VL3.489333@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>> The little lost angel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
>>>> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
>>>> of which can go above 40C in my environment.
>>>
>>> I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.
>>>
>>> Yousuf Khan
>>
>> The systems I did stuff for had 38.6 degrees and 7000 feet altitude as
>> environmental maximums. I always thought of it as an un-airconditioned
>> office in Mexico City in the Summer.
>
> All the PC class hardware I've worked on was 45C inside the case, around
> the motherboard (55C ambient around the drives). IIRC that was at a
> maximum of 5K'. You've been pampered. ;-)
>
> --
> Keith
>
The 38.6 was outside the case. Class B extended to be exact. What happened
inside the case was our problem.
>
 

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On Wed, 04 May 2005 22:00:08 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:

>
> "keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.05.05.02.18.47.53244@att.bizzzz...
>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:54:23 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Jsaee.5724$VL3.489333@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>>> The little lost angel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, Yousuf where do you get the chipset temperature from? From what I
>>>>> see, there are usually at most 3 readings, CPU, Case and PWM/VRM, all
>>>>> of which can go above 40C in my environment.
>>>>
>>>> I consider the case temperature to be a analogy of chipset temperature.
>>>>
>>>> Yousuf Khan
>>>
>>> The systems I did stuff for had 38.6 degrees and 7000 feet altitude as
>>> environmental maximums. I always thought of it as an un-airconditioned
>>> office in Mexico City in the Summer.
>>
>> All the PC class hardware I've worked on was 45C inside the case, around
>> the motherboard (55C ambient around the drives). IIRC that was at a
>> maximum of 5K'. You've been pampered. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> Keith
>>
> The 38.6 was outside the case. Class B extended to be exact. What happened
> inside the case was our problem.

PC component manufacturers worry about what goes on inside the box. The
integrators have to worry about the box. Even the FCC recognized this
difference six-ten years ago.

--
Keith
 
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On 16 May 2005 09:02:06 -0400,
digisol@bigpond.net-dot-au.no-spam.invalid (digisol) wrote:

>I doubt that any cpu would last more than 5 minutes at 95 deg C and
>still survive it.

Me and my friend this experiment before, running an XP (IIRC) without
the fan. It could primed and all, went past 90C and system hang in the
end but the chip was fine and dandy for long after that.


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