Question Big RAM Headaches

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I bought RAM before realizing that some work better than others for certain cpus, mobos, etc... Now I have most parts and a real headache knowing what to do.

I bought F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW and am doing a 2700x build.

1. I have the fatal1ty x470 mobo, which lists a model exactly the same as that, EXCEPT the color letetrs at the end different. But even then it says it will run at 2933, not 3200.

2. Since I read that the mobo has popping sound issues in audio, I was going to buy the asus prime x470-pro. Well, the model isn't listed on tis QVL.

3. A model that IS on that QVL is CMR32GX4M2C3000C15. Well, on newegg that is around $400, but it ahs a "replacement model" that is under $200. But the replacement is obviously not listed on the QVL!

What am I supposed to do when manufacturers have so many kits they don't test? Heck, they abrely have ANY 32gb kits even listed on that QVL. This is a big reason why I keep wishing I had jiust built an intel.

My kit is samsung b die, so I guess I made a mistake listening to pep[le saying "any samsung b die will work well". I thought hey 15 latency will be better than 16, so then it turned out hardly anyone tests many 15 ones, they usually test more 16 and 14.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I apologize for the unforgivable interference with your higher business aspirations; as well as the mistaken assumption that you were interested in a resolution to your stated uncertainties.

It was quite rude of me.

That was a solution saying to educate myself on something I had already read conflicting statements on? Again, if it can't shock you, why do so many articles say you need to touch something metal to be grounded when working in the case?

As for the RAM situation, I'm still getting so many conflicting opinions there, as well, that I have no diea what to do. Someone else told me to try it and it would probably work, then when I told him it's 15 latency, he said odd number latencies can have issues for amd, due to a process that takes place being set for even latencies. But I do see 15 latency kits on the QVL.

Not sure what you're taking offense to or what you're implying was a solution from saying people buying parts on ebay are fools. Are you the one who kept insisting that my gpu I was selling, which was sealed, was the same as used so nobody should buy it? 1. a sealed one is still less likely to have issues. 2. evga confirmed the warranty transfers to the buyer.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Given the amount of time you've wasted wringing your hands over some trivial issue you could have already built out your PC and tested the RAM. Comes a time when you simply have to stop fretting and start doing.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Given the amount of time you've wasted wringing your hands over some trivial issue you could have already built out your PC and tested the RAM. Comes a time when you simply have to stop fretting and start doing.

Trivial issue? Have you seen how many people still report issues with RAM for the ryzen 2xxx series? Just the other day I saw someone reporting issues even on a high end mobo and sure enough his RAM was g.skill trident z 3200, which mine is as well. And even g.skill acts like I should get a very high end mobo to get good use out of the kit.

If RAM ends up not stable, or even not posting, it's not trivial. And still nobody answers me on how you even check to see if it's stable or not...

 

[ex_bubblehead]

....And still nobody answers me on how you even check to see if it's stable or not...

You test it by installing it. It really is just that simple.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

You test it by installing it. It really is just that simple.

No it isn't. I'd have no idea what signs to look for to know that it's "unstable". A pc can have all kinds of issues without it being obvious which component is causing it.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Yes, it really is just that simple. You build it, turn it on, install Windows, and you'll know instantly whether or not it will run. This is how it's been done for decades. Either way, I'm out.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Yes, it really is just that simple. You build it, turn it on, install Windows, and you'll know instantly whether or not it will run. This is how it's been done for decades. Either way, I'm out.

That is not all there is to it... That is just to know if it posts. That doesn't tell if it's stable at whatever speed. One example I saw someone mention is that when he played a game it would lock up or throttle something or whatnot after 10 minutes. I have no idea how he would know the RAM is what caused it or how tot ell if RAM is stable. I was just going to do the automatic OCing of it, ie XMP or whatever it's called, I forget... but that can still make RAM unstable.

 

[Christian Levesque]

It's only a big headache because you make it a big headache...

I have 2x 8 GB 3600cl16 Trident Z rgb (b die also) on a Ryzen 1700 + X370 combo. Running them at 3200 cl14 manual timmings. Able to boot at 3600 cl16 but crash entering windows.

With a 2700 and x470 board you wont have issues, use a recent BIOS and use manual timming tho... dont use XMP crap settings and youll be fine. Download Ryzen DRAM calculator and have at it. Its RAM not fricking black magic...

 

[RayOfDark]

Leaving the Blend test in Prime95 running overnight would give a pretty good indication of whether or not the RAM is stable.

https://www.mersenne.org/download/

 

[AllanGH]

...if it can't shock you, why do so many articles say you need to touch something metal to be grounded when working in the case?

Shock is (usually mild) injury received from higher than the common voltages exposed in an operating computer. "Won't I get shocked?" or "Can I get electrocuted if it's connected to the power?" are the usual questions posed by people who really have zero business opening up a computer in the first place.

Electrostatic discharge is the discharge of the excess charge built up in your body...hopefully not into the motherboard components, hence the recommendation to use a wrist ground strap, or to touch the metal chassis before, and while, working on computer internals.

They are not the same thing. The correct use of terminology does matter, and your misuse of terms obviously causes unintended confusion.

You are spending too much time confusing yourself with conjecture and rumour, while ignoring the valid answers you solicited from experienced people, here. It's up to you what you do, but I have to say that the time for wringing your hands over nothing at all is long past.

Do something productive, instead.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

It's only a big headache because you make it a big headache...

I have 2x 8 GB 3600cl16 Trident Z rgb (b die also) on a Ryzen 1700 + X370 combo. Running them at 3200 cl14 manual timmings. Able to boot at 3600 cl16 but crash entering windows.

With a 2700 and x470 board you wont have issues, use a recent BIOS and use manual timming tho... dont use XMP crap settings and youll be fine. Download Ryzen DRAM calculator and have at it. Its RAM not fricking black magic...

I am not "making it" one. The manufacturers give the impression it could have issues and reviewers, even for builds using 2700x, still report RAM being unstable. It's a legit concern. Notice in this very thread, someone told me to always get ones on the QVL, also.

I'm worried if I manually do timings it will be something it can't handle, even if it's the ones listed for the RAM, and lower my parts' longevity. With XMP, at least someone else can be blamed if it messes something up.

Leaving the Blend test in Prime95 running overnight would give a pretty good indication of whether or not the RAM is stable.

https://www.mersenne.org/download/

Thanks.

Shock is (usually mild) injury received from higher than the common voltages exposed in an operating computer. "Won't I get shocked?" or "Can I get electrocuted if it's connected to the power?" are the usual questions posed by people who really have zero business opening up a computer in the first place.

Electrostatic discharge is the discharge of the excess charge built up in your body...hopefully not into the motherboard components, hence the recommendation to use a wrist ground strap, or to touch the metal chassis before, and while, working on computer internals.

They are not the same thing. The correct use of terminology does matter, and your misuse of terms obviously causes unintended confusion.

You are spending too much time confusing yourself with conjecture and rumour, while ignoring the valid answers you solicited from experienced people, here. It's up to you what you do, but I have to say that the time for wringing your hands over nothing at all is long past.

Do something productive, instead.

1. that's ridiculous logic.... that if someone isn't an expert on electric current and how it's handled in different pc parts, they should not change a part out. by that logic, hardly anyone should. So you have a degree in electrical engineering? If not, I guess you aren't qualified to switch out RAM.

2. I was talking about EITHER shock or electrocution. Guess what? I don't want either. Guess what else? If you unplug the pc, it still has current running through it for up to weeks, as articles have stated. You're pretending it's a simple, easy situation, just as you are with RAM, contradicting reviews where people have had major issues still with RAM.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I love how people keep hilariously acting like it would be no big deal if a $340 kit that can't be returned doesn't work. Maybe some of you have no problem throwing money away, but some of us don't want to be out that high of an amount on something and then it not work.

And to be sure of having a 32gb kit that works, I'd have to spend $200 more, have worse timings, it's probably not Samsung and certainly not b die to have 16-18-18 timings instead of all the same timings, and then would have to try to sell mine, which is years old model, so would probably lose money in the switch for worse RAM.

 

[AllanGH]

I'm not sure what you're about on this vision quest of yours, but it's pretty clear that you aren't interested in solutions; which, by the way, you have already been given by pretty-much every responder. I'm not going to argue with you when it's painfully clear that it's a waste of my time.

Sell everything and buy a Mac, OK?

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I'm not sure what you're about on this vision quest of yours, but it's pretty clear that you aren't interested in solutions; which, by the way, you have already been given by pretty-much every responder. I'm not going to argue with you when it's painfully clear that it's a waste of my time.

Sell everything and buy a Mac, OK?

lol. I have been given no "solutions". "try it and it works or it doesn't" isn't a solution. It's an opinion on what to do. There IS no definite solution. It's either try it, and if it doesn't work then reselling the RAM would net me probably $100 less than if I hadn't opened it, or buy a kit definitely on the QVL and definitely know I'll be losing some money from the beginning.

Also if it were such a clear solution, then how come people are disagreeing in here? One person said always buy only from the QVL.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

btw, I don't have an x470. They merged two of my threads. In the beginning I did and now I obuht an asus b450-i instead and am selling the x470, unopened.

 

[Christian Levesque]

You are way too paranoid to build a PC yourself. Sell everything and buy a pre-buit one with a garantee that everything will fit together. There gave you a solution. QVL IS NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS... It's a suggestion. We did give you solutions, you are just too chicken to follow them. Prove us wrong or shut up.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

You are way too paranoid to build a PC yourself. Sell everything and buy a pre-buit one with a garantee that everything will fit together. There gave you a solution. QVL IS NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS... It's a suggestion. We did give you solutions, you are just too chicken to follow them. Prove us wrong or shut up.

Troll and be insulting all you want, but it's not "being paranoid" when even someone in this very thread said always buy from the QVL, only a dummy can't see that if a kit doesn't work right and ISN'T on the QVL the manufacturer has an out where they don't have to do anything about it, and any sane person wants to be sure about safety when working with electrical currents. You can childishly call it "paranoid" all you want, but it's common sense. And article after article says when you unplug it, the electrical current is still going through the parts from anywhere from 24 hours to 2 weeks. Only a childish person would respond to that by saying "buy a pre-built". You just proved you don't care about being helpful, but being insulting.

I bet you would have told that girl who died from drinking too much water in a drinking water contest that she was being paranoid to worry about that. I guess she should have stopped drinking water totally, according to you.

Back on topic, G.skill says Samsung b die "should" work well with any amd, but to get the best out of it the user may need to know how to work well in the BIOS, which obviously I could figure out by researching, BUT I don't like messing around because it may seem I get it right and then really be overdoing it and ruin parts, in my opinion.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Alright, tone it down. This will be your only warning.

 

[hang-the-9]

If the RAM does not work in the system you can contact the RAM vendor and check with them why it's not working. If the motherboard states it will run DDR4 at a certain speed, then you should feel safe in trying any DDR4 brand in that speed. If you worry about what will work and what won't work and what may happen you will never get anything done.

Everything else you are doing with returning/selling parts just seems because of impulse or too quick purchases and overthinking things. This is why I stick to mid range builds, overall it does not matter if you run at slightly slower RAM or a SATA SSD vs a PCIe one, it's cheaper, less hassle then looking for ultra tuned parts and work better without any messing about with BIOS settings to get optimum speeds or trouble-shoot crashing. You maybe lose 10% of benchmark speed for a 100% reduction in headaches and worry which is a trad-off I would take all day. No one would notice if your game gets to 125 fps vs 120 or if some program opens in 2 seconds instead of 2.5 seconds.

If you don't like that your PCIe lanes will drop with using PCIe drives then use SATA ones, or get one PCIe for boot/games and other for storage or backups.

There are many build suggestions on the forums in the Systems section already done for you. If you can't figure out what you want to do, if you did not open your parts you should be able to return them, unless you kept them sitting past the return window.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

If the RAM does not work in the system you can contact the RAM vendor and check with them why it's not working. If the motherboard states it will run DDR4 at a certain speed, then you should feel safe in trying any DDR4 brand in that speed. If you worry about what will work and what won't work and what may happen you will never get anything done.

Everything else you are doing with returning/selling parts just seems because of impulse or too quick purchases and overthinking things. This is why I stick to mid range builds, overall it does not matter if you run at slightly slower RAM or a SATA SSD vs a PCIe one, it's cheaper, less hassle then looking for ultra tuned parts and work better without any messing about with BIOS settings to get optimum speeds or trouble-shoot crashing. You maybe lose 10% of benchmark speed for a 100% reduction in headaches and worry which is a trad-off I would take all day. No one would notice if your game gets to 125 fps vs 120 or if some program opens in 2 seconds instead of 2.5 seconds.

If you don't like that your PCIe lanes will drop with using PCIe drives then use SATA ones, or get one PCIe for boot/games and other for storage or backups.

There are many build suggestions on the forums in the Systems section already done for you. If you can't figure out what you want to do, if you did not open your parts you should be able to return them, unless you kept them sitting past the return window.

Thanks for the thoughts.

What happened is I went into buying the parts wanting an intel, changed my mind to wanting amd, didn't realize some hurdles since I had never built before, etc...

Also, I got literally hundreds of dollars off on the parts by doing limited cash back deals of $50 off $50, $75 off $75 and $100 off $100 by buying the parts one at a time when I was able to get one of those deals or buying parts on sale.

So that is why I bought them over a long period. Then, obviously, the problem with that is that over that amount of time newer parts came out.

So far i have only sold a gtx 1060 gpu and a 960 evo ssd. But I am also trying to sell my motherboard and case because 1. I didn't realize my case isn't as silent as some others and 2. I didn't realize some of the negatives about my motherboard (still many like it, though).

As for the RAM, well it is listed on the QVL for my ORIGINAL motherboard (minus one letter related to color), but even on there it says it will ruin at 2933, despite being 3200 RAM.

If I were to manually try to set up the RAM, do I just put the timings listed in my product specs?

Also, someone told me that odd number latency can have issues performing as well as even... ie a 16 would still perform better than a 15 in some cases.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Still can't decide on RAM. Contrary to what has been said, there are other knowledgeable people who disagree and think I should buy a kit on the QVL and have said they've had issues when not doing so. Also, a kit is on sale for $170 now which is on the QVL. But I can't quite bring myself to get it when even g.skill says I shouldn't have a problem.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

So fun. I finally decided I'd get the 3700x and x570 only to now read that every x570 will have a whining fan and the 3700x won't be out until AT LEAST july at the earliest, and as late as September. I sold my cpu and mobo. Could cancel the cpu sale and just build with it, though... Not sure what to do now.

The pcie 4 lanes are not much good for anything currently. So I doubt I'd care to even have the x570, anyway HOWEVER, they may say if you use an x470 or b450 that you need extra cooling above what you'd normally have needed (I don't see how, since the TDP for the new cpus will be right in line with the previous ones, though...). If the b450 would be good enough for the 4700x I'd probably keep that mobo and just accept my gpu being at x8.