Question Black Screen Crashes while gaming, requires hard restart with power button.

[mdodge2007]

Hey, hopefully you all can help me because I'm going crazy trying to figure this one out. As the title says, I have been getting crashes on my pc over the past couple of months while gaming. It's not very consistent when it happens but seems to happen pretty much exclusively during graphically intensive games (Diablo 4, Path of Exile). I can play less graphically intensive games for hours with no issues (Factorio). There seems to be no particular trigger to when this happens and can occur anywhere from within 30 mins of playing up to 8 hours between occurrences. When the crash happens I lose all audio and video but the fans are on in my pc and the LEDs on components are on but they freeze on whatever color they happen to be (color cycling LEDS). I have tried leaving my pc on overnight in this state to see if it will recover itself but it does not, I have to hold power button down to restart it that way. On average this happens from about 2-8 times daily now depending on what I'm doing. I took PC to a local repair shop where they ran stress tests on components but could not get the pc to have this issue in spite of having it for several days. I'm fairly certain this is a graphic card issue but am not certain. I built the PC myself but am not great with troubleshooting. What I have tried so far:

1. Updating and reinstalling drivers for everything I can think of.
2. Monitoring using HWInfo64 including logging to look for any anomalies (none as far as I can tell, temps are in acceptable ranges for my hardware and the tech at the repair shop didn't see anything either.)
3. Taking it to a repair shop and having them try to figure out out (found nothing.)

I do not have any extra components to swap in and try sadly so that's off the table. Also money is tight right now so I don't want to just buy every component until I find what's wrong with it. Unfortunately the latter is seeming to be more and more the solution since I can't figure this out. The PC is getting fairly old at this point (5 years) so maybe it's just time. Anyway, here's my build:

Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi) AM4 motherboard
G.Skill TridentZ 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3200 RAM
AMD Ryzen 5 2600x (stock cooler)
Asus ROG Radeon RX Vega 56 8GB Memory PCI Express 3.0
EVGA SuperNOVA 750W 80+ Gold Modular PSU
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe ATX Full Tower case (pretty sure irrelevant here but who knows)
SSD for OS
HDD for storage
Running a 35" UW 3440x1440 100Hz monitor as primary through displayport and some crap DVI monitor as a secondary.

I'm not sure if attaching logs here is against some rule or anything but I do have those if allowed, let me know if you would like to see them. Thanks for the help, let me know if you guys need anything else to help out.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

How OLD is your EVGA SuperNOVA PSU ?

 

[Darkbreeze]

WHICH model of "750w EVGA Supernova Gold" power supply do you have because there are MANY of them, with wildly different levels of quality and performance. And approximately how old is that power supply?

Is your system plugged directly into the wall socket or is it plugged into a power strip, surge protector or UPS battery backup system? Are there any extension cords in use at ALL? Has the outlet been tested for problems or have you tried a completely DIFFERENT outlet?

Since you are running the stock cooler and this system is five years old, have you been monitoring the thermal condition of the CPU or graphics card at all using something like HWinfo to determine if perhaps there is a thermal issue? It might be a good idea, at five years old, to purchase a quality thermal paste and then remove the cooler, clean off all the old thermal paste or pad using a plastic scraper and 91% isopropyl alcohol and apply fresh paste. If there is a thermal issue existing with the graphics card, that is a bit more involved but still doable for most users if they are even moderately handy with such things. Knowing if there is a thermal issue in the first place is pretty necessary though.

My thought is, if they had no such issues at the shop but you do at the home location, then it needs to probably be something that is relevant to the location rather than to the hardware, but I've seen it go both ways in similar situations even when a "shop" has been involved with the testing.

Also, were they using your power cord and monitors or were they using their own power cord and displays?

 

[mdodge2007]

How OLD is your EVGA SuperNOVA PSU ?

Everything was purchased at the same time so 5 years old. That thought did cross my mind as well but I figured if it was crapping out on me that I would lose all power and fans and lights and stuff would go off as well.

 

[mdodge2007]

WHICH model of "750w EVGA Supernova Gold" power supply do you have because there are MANY of them, with wildly different levels of quality and performance. And approximately how old is that power supply?

Is your system plugged directly into the wall socket or is it plugged into a power strip, surge protector or UPS battery backup system? Are there any extension cords in use at ALL? Has the outlet been tested for problems or have you tried a completely DIFFERENT outlet?

Since you are running the stock cooler and this system is five years old, have you been monitoring the thermal condition of the CPU or graphics card at all using something like HWinfo to determine if perhaps there is a thermal issue? It might be a good idea, at five years old, to purchase a quality thermal paste and then remove the cooler, clean off all the old thermal paste or pad using a plastic scraper and 91% isopropyl alcohol and apply fresh paste. If there is a thermal issue existing with the graphics card, that is a bit more involved but still doable for most users if they are even moderately handy with such things. Knowing if there is a thermal issue in the first place is pretty necessary though.

My thought is, if they had no such issues at the shop but you do at the home location, then it needs to probably be something that is relevant to the location rather than to the hardware, but I've seen it go both ways in similar situations even when a "shop" has been involved with the testing.

Also, were they using your power cord and monitors or were they using their own power cord and displays?

Model of PSU is 220-G3-0750-X1. I have the PC plugged into a surge protector which is directly plugged into the wall outlet. The only other things plugged into it are the monitors and a desk lamp. Average CPU temp is 60 degrees according to HWInfo64, ran monitor for about a week trying to log crashes, at the time of crash nothing temp wise was ever really unusual. Saved about a dozen logs up to including when it crashes, some of which ran for several hours while playing relevant games.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Assumptions that a power supply will not work AT ALL if it fails or begins to fail, are patently wrong thinking arguments. There are multiple rail types, 12v, 5v and 3v, and often multiple rails of the same type, ie, dual 12v rails rather than a single 12v rail, and any or all of them can fail at any given time, while the others might work fine or might also not work at all. Plenty of occasions where the whole system SEEMS to work fine, motherboard lights come on, graphics card fans are running, case fans are running, CPU cooler is running, drives are powered up, but the system won't work because the auxiliary power circuit (PCIe/PEG) has a problem and the graphics card isn't getting anything other than slot power from the board.

That's just a single example of how just one part of the PSU can fail or have a problem while the rest of it works. It can go the other way too. Nothing might work, except the CPU cooler and case fans come on, or just the MB lights come on, or you can hear or see drives power up but nothing else is happening. Anything can happen from nothing at all to almost everything works but components attached to one rail or cable are not working. It is sometimes, but not always, an all or nothing thing when it comes to power supplies. In fact, EVERYTHING might work, to some degree, but not work properly or only intermittently, if the PSU simply has a problem or is getting weak due to age. Any and all of these scenarios are possible and we see some variation of them all pretty much every day.

So you can't ever rule out the power supply just because there is SOME indication of power delivery.

 

[mdodge2007]

Assumptions that a power supply will not work AT ALL if it fails or begins to fail, are patently wrong thinking arguments. There are multiple rail types, 12v, 5v and 3v, and often multiple rails of the same type, ie, dual 12v rails rather than a single 12v rail, and any or all of them can fail at any given time, while the others might work fine or might also not work at all. Plenty of occasions where the whole system SEEMS to work fine, motherboard lights come on, graphics card fans are running, case fans are running, CPU cooler is running, drives are powered up, but the system won't work because the auxiliary power circuit (PCIe/PEG) has a problem and the graphics card isn't getting anything other than slot power from the board.

That's just a single example of how just one part of the PSU can fail or have a problem while the rest of it works. It can go the other way too. Nothing might work, except the CPU cooler and case fans come on, or just the MB lights come on, or you can hear or see drives power up but nothing else is happening. Anything can happen from nothing at all to almost everything works but components attached to one rail or cable are not working. It is sometimes, but not always, an all or nothing thing when it comes to power supplies. In fact, EVERYTHING might work, to some degree, but not work properly or only intermittently, if the PSU simply has a problem or is getting weak due to age. Any and all of these scenarios are possible and we see some variation of them all pretty much every day.

So you can't ever rule out the power supply just because there is SOME indication of power delivery.

That's fair, I really only know enough about PSU's to know not to try to mess with them too much so I don't shock myself to death. How likely do you think that this is the issue?

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

Everything was purchased at the same time so 5 years old. That thought did cross my mind as well but I figured if it was crapping out on me that I would lose all power and fans and lights and stuff would go off as well.

Can you borrow a spare PSU from someone, or maybe your friend, just for stress testing the GPU and the system ? It could also be a power issue IMO. Since only graphic demanding games are crashing, then most likely the PSU is not taking the load properly.

Or better yet, also do a quick testing of the RAM memory modules as well for any errors.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Try plugging the PSU directly into the wall socket. That should be standard anyhow unless you have high quality power strip or surge protection, and 99% of users do not have that. I will give you my in depth spiel on this subject if you wish. At the least it is rather informative offering a perspective on them that most never consider.

The fact is that even mid tiered quality power strips are notorious for having problems especially if they have a few miles on them, but often even if they don't. Plug directly into the wall socket with the PSU to eliminate that from the equation and it will quickly answer the question as to whether that is the problem or not. Other components aren't usually quite as critical so if you need to use the strip for the monitors, printer, etc., that's fine. Well, acceptable anyhow.

What is your current motherboard BIOS version?

What is your Windows version AND Windows build version? How old is your Windows installation, as in, when was the last time a "clean" install was done?

Did you manually obtain your drivers directly from the ASUS motherboard product page and AMD website, or did you use either Windows native drivers or some kind of third party "driver updater" to make sure drivers were up to date?

 

[mdodge2007]

Can you borrow a spare PSU from someone, or maybe your friend, just for stress testing the GPU and the system ? It could also be a power issue IMO. Since only graphic demanding games are crashing, then most likely the PSU is not taking the load properly.

Or better yet, also do a quick testing of the RAM memory modules as well for any errors.

How does one test RAM memory modules and what am I looking for? Also if that turns up nothing, do you have any recommendations for any good PSU's to look into replacing mine with? Ideally something that will follow along with any upgrades I choose to do in the future. I know 750W is at the low end of what I should have, what is a good wattage to have for modern components?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Can you borrow a spare PSU from someone, or maybe your friend, just for stress testing the GPU and the system ? It could also be a power issue IMO. Since only graphic demanding games are crashing, then most likely the PSU is not taking the load properly.

Or better yet, also do a quick testing of the RAM memory modules as well for any errors.

While it CAN happen, and occasionally does, RAM just suddenly going bad after working fine for five years is incredibly uncommon unless something else, like a major power surge, brownout, nearby lightning strike or something has happened to facilitate it. RAM just doesn't really "go bad" most of the time. Again, it CAN happen, but I think in 35 years I've seen previously working fine memory just "go bad" like twice. So, it never hurts to check, but I wouldn't count on it in this kind of situation. If it was a new build, I'd be right there with you as possibly bad RAM or incompatible with the motherboard and platform.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Memtest86​

Go to the Passmark software website and download the USB Memtest86 free version. You can do the optical disk version too if for some reason you cannot use a bootable USB flash drive.


Create bootable media using the downloaded Memtest86. Once you have done that, go into your BIOS and configure the system to boot to the USB drive that contains the Memtest86 USB media or the optical drive if using that option.


You CAN use Memtest86+, as they've recently updated the program after MANY years of no updates, but for the purpose of this guide I recommend using the Passmark version as this is a tried and true utility while I've not had the opportunity to investigate the reliability of the latest 86+ release as compared to Memtest86. Possibly, consider using Memtest86+ as simply a secondary test to Memtest86, much as Windows memory diagnostic utility and Prime95 Blend or custom modes can be used for a second opinion utility.

Click here to download Memtest86 USB package​

Create a bootable USB Flash drive:

1. Download the Windows MemTest86 USB image.

2. Right click on the downloaded file and select the "Extract to Here" option. This places the USB image and imaging tool into the current folder.

3. Run the included imageUSB tool, it should already have the image file selected and you just need to choose which connected USB drive to turn into a bootable drive. Note that this will erase all data on the drive.


No memory should ever fail to pass Memtest86 when it is at the default configuration that the system sets it at when you start out or do a clear CMOS by removing the CMOS battery for five minutes.

Best method for testing memory is to first run four passes of Memtest86, all 11 tests, WITH the memory at the default configuration. This should be done BEFORE setting the memory to the XMP profile settings. The paid version has 13 tests but the free version only has tests 1-10 and test 13. So run full passes of all 11 tests. Be sure to download the latest version of Memtest86. Memtest86+ has not been updated in MANY years. It is NO-WISE as good as regular Memtest86 from Passmark software.

If there are ANY errors, at all, then the memory configuration is not stable. Bumping the DRAM voltage up slightly may resolve that OR you may need to make adjustments to the primary timings. There are very few secondary or tertiary timings that should be altered. I can tell you about those if you are trying to tighten your memory timings.

If you cannot pass Memtest86 with the memory at the XMP configuration settings then I would recommend restoring the memory to the default JEDEC SPD of 1333/2133mhz (Depending on your platform and memory type) with everything left on the auto/default configuration and running Memtest86 over again. If it completes the four full passes without error you can try again with the XMP settings but first try bumping the DRAM voltage up once again by whatever small increment the motherboard will allow you to increase it by. If it passes, great, move on to the Prime95 testing.

If it still fails, try once again bumping the voltage if you are still within the maximum allowable voltage for your memory type and test again. If it still fails, you are likely going to need more advanced help with configuring your primary timings and should return the memory to the default configuration until you can sort it out.

If the memory will not pass Memtest86 for four passes when it IS at the stock default non-XMP configuration, even after a minor bump in voltage, then there is likely something physically wrong with one or more of the memory modules and I'd recommend running Memtest on each individual module, separately, to determine which module is causing the issue. If you find a single module that is faulty you should contact the seller or the memory manufacturer and have them replace the memory as a SET. Memory comes matched for a reason as I made clear earlier and if you let them replace only one module rather than the entire set you are back to using unmatched memory which is an open door for problems with incompatible memory.

Be aware that you SHOULD run Memtest86 to test the memory at the default, non-XMP, non-custom profile settings BEFORE ever making any changes to the memory configuration so that you will know if the problem is a setting or is a physical problem with the memory.

 

[Darkbreeze]

How does one test RAM memory modules and what am I looking for? Also if that turns up nothing, do you have any recommendations for any good PSU's to look into replacing mine with? Ideally something that will follow along with any upgrades I choose to do in the future. I know 750W is at the low end of what I should have, what is a good wattage to have for modern components?

This entirely depends on what graphics card and other hardware you will be running. Assuming that most systems use approximately within the same "range" of power for most systems, it's the graphics card that most determines what size the power supply ought to be IF you are running a high powered gaming card. Even some workstation cards. So knowing what you'll be running is key but for most high end graphics cards these days, excepting those in the mid ranges, you'd likely want something between 850 and 1000w and not just that, but it needs to be of good quality as well.

These two threads can be of assistance in determining what models might be good choices, but regardless of anything else you simply always want to check for a professional review of the exact model you are looking at. If there are no reviews then either the unit is too low of quality for reviewers to feel it is worth their time or is too new and simply hasn't been reviewed yet. In both cases, it's probably still a good idea to avoid a unit like that.

Both resources below are good general guides on making PSU purchasing decisions.

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

Article - [psucultists] PSU tier list rev. 14.8 (Final Update Jul '21)

PSU Tier List 4.0 rev. 14.8 (outdated) Last Update: 12-07-2021 Legend : Gray - EoL/obsolete and/or otherwise not recommended for purchase. Green - small form-factor (gold and blue colors are disregarded due to scarcity of SFX PSUs) Gold - best units in the tier (includes requirements for blue...

forums.tomshardware.com

This site is invaluable in finding reviews on more recent PSU models and since Aris is pretty much the top dog when it comes to reviewing power supplies, you really can't go wrong with any unit he recommends nor by avoiding any unit he does not recommend. Use this resource in addition to my guide and PSU cultists tier list to figure out what is good and affordable, in your region or country.

PSUs - Hardware Busters

hwbusters.com

 

[mdodge2007]

Try plugging the PSU directly into the wall socket. That should be standard anyhow unless you have high quality power strip or surge protection, and 99% of users do not have that. I will give you my in depth spiel on this subject if you wish. At the least it is rather informative offering a perspective on them that most never consider.

The fact is that even mid tiered quality power strips are notorious for having problems especially if they have a few miles on them, but often even if they don't. Plug directly into the wall socket with the PSU to eliminate that from the equation and it will quickly answer the question as to whether that is the problem or not. Other components aren't usually quite as critical so if you need to use the strip for the monitors, printer, etc., that's fine. Well, acceptable anyhow.

What is your current motherboard BIOS version?

What is your Windows version AND Windows build version? How old is your Windows installation, as in, when was the last time a "clean" install was done?

Did you manually obtain your drivers directly from the ASUS motherboard product page and AMD website, or did you use either Windows native drivers or some kind of third party "driver updater" to make sure drivers were up to date?

I'm running bios version 0401 x64 on my motherboard. I know it's an old build but have never had problems with it in 5 years until the past couple months, I was under the impression that you probably shouldn't update this as long as it hasn't been giving you issues. Running Windows 10 Home version 10.0.19045 Build 19045. I'm running driver version 31.0.14057.5006 for my video card which was downloaded directly from the AMD website. The last time a fresh install of windows was done was in 2020. Also am I putting my PC in danger by plugging it directly into the wall? I live in the midwest US and thunderstorms are very common here. I don't doubt that my surge protector is probably older than it should be but I'm sure it's better than nothing at least.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'm running bios version 0401 x64 on my motherboard. I know it's an old build but have never had problems with it in 5 years until the past couple months, I was under the impression that you probably shouldn't update this as long as it hasn't been giving you issues. Running Windows 10 Home version 10.0.19045 Build 19045. I'm running driver version 31.0.14057.5006 for my video card which was downloaded directly from the AMD website. The last time a fresh install of windows was done was in 2020. Also am I putting my PC in danger by plugging it directly into the wall? I live in the midwest US and thunderstorms are very common here. I don't doubt that my surge protector is probably older than it should be but I'm sure it's better than nothing at least.

That is old school advice, from back when BIOS updates were rarely done because there was rarely a need to. Hardware availability back then was very narrow compared to now, and rarely did anything get released during the same hardware cycle that didn't already have support at the hardware level in the existing BIOS versions. That has greatly changed over the past ten years. Now, it should be considered at least somewhat in a similar light as having to periodically do driver updates. Things change fast and even just moving to a newer build version of Windows can create a need for expanded support at the hardware level through a BIOS update.

I would absolutely update to version 5003. Be aware however that after updating to any version from 4502 up you may have to go into the BIOS and disable the Trusted platform module or Secure boot settings since it changes those to enabled by default for Windows 11 support. If you have a legacy Windows installation, not full UEFI, this could apply to you. If you are running a full UEFI installation of Windows 10 or 11, it should have no effect and either way it should not be problematic but you SHOULD at least be aware of it. It is a non-issue and generally doesn't even require you to make any BIOS setting changes, but in some few cases it's possible that you'll need to change those settings.
As to your surge protector, let's just do this so you will understand because the chances are very good, in fact, almost guaranteed, that your "surge protector" offers nothing of the sort AND if you have EVER had any kind of surge in the past that has triggered the protection on that device, it has absolutely zero ability to protect against anything now and should simply be thrown into the trash. They are one and done devices, although if we are being honest most of them won't protect you against anything even when they are brand new.


Years of experience using PC systems and having to diagnose bushels full of issues where a high number of them ended up being faults with the circuitry inside the power strips. Primarily, cheap box store models but also a good number of supposedly premium power strip "surge protectors" that don't actually protect you from anything other than your own fear of what might happen if you actually end up needing a surge protector. A false sense of security.


Most people buy and use power strips because they THINK that the fact it says surge protector means something. Usually, it doesn't. This is one of my favorite quotes on the subject from an electrical engineer and residential/commercial electrical journeyman I know.

Buy a good one, but understand expensive OFTEN does not equal good.


"Monster" brand are the low end junk that are sold for a premium price. Look for what us professionals use. Tripp-lite is one of my go to absolute favorites as they have a price to quality mix that is exceptional. The Belkin brand is junk as far as I am concerned as they focus on how it looks and not how it works. APC is also another one that I will trust , but they mostly cater to data centers and Corporate customers when it comes to their quality units and they DO sell some lower end products that slot into the budget market that are not the same unquestionable quality as what they sell for professional and enterprise use.


Lastly, if you really care about your electronics, get a Whole house surge suppressor installed in your electrical panel. Only a few hundred bucks and it protects everything including the overpriced LED lightbulbs that is all the rage these days.

Units you want to consider will be those sold by APC, Tripp-Lite, Eaton, Leviton, General Electric, Polyphaser, Ditek, Siemens, ABB, Square D, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), and Syscom, these are the brands you can trust to have high quality internal electronics if you MUST use a power strip but even so you STILL will want to ask around about specific models OR look to professional reviews as even these big boys occasionally have a product with some glaring flaw that makes it's way into the final product and might best be avoided compared to other available models.

Do not however use a power strip thinking that it offers significant protection, because even the best of them does not, not really. Whole house protection is the only real protection from major surges or lightning strikes. And even then, sometimes, nothing is going to save you if the strike is close enough to home.


Monster and Belkin, and a few others that are commonly used, almost unilaterally use the same protections in their 45 dollar surge protector strips as what you would find in an 8 dollar Amazon or Walmart branded model. And if you ever take one of these, or any cheap box store, dollar store (Even worse than these others usually BUT occasionally about the same) or Harbor Freight power strip apart you are likely to find frayed wires, poorly soldered connections with blobs of solder nearly touching crucial and potential short circuit points, super low quality MOVs, and a ton of other indicators that no real integrity was involved in the design or manufacturer of these units.


Another factor to keep in mind is that even with some of these high quality units, any protection that MIGHT be afforded, is usually the end of that product after one shot. This, directly from the Tripp-Lite manual for the #1 selling surge protection power strip in the world.

All models feature an internal protection that will disconnect the surge-protective component at the end of its useful life but will maintain power to the load now unprotected.

I believe many models from APC and a couple of the others I listed have now incorporated designs that permanently disengage any ability of the device to deliver power once a surge or short of significant enough caliber to incur the protection has occured. That basically means once there has been a surge or short, throw the device away. Even for high end models. Only whole house protection and properly earthed circuits offer any true protection from a serious surge or direct strike from lightning somewhere close enough to affect your segment of the grid.


And whatever you do, don't EVER buy any kind of extension cord, power strip or other electronic device with slip rings.

This Power Strip Is A Fire Starter

A few weeks ago I needed a power strip in my home office. The outlet in question is located behind a filing cabinet so it would need a low profile plug. I jumped on Amazon to buy a surge suppressor…

hackaday.com