blessed genocide m ?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Suppose I started the game with a blessed ?oGenocide, or found one
early on. It occurs to me that it would be well worth it to wipe out
all classes of mimics.

Quite apart from the fact that they are annoying little blighters that
have directly or indirectly brought about the unnecessary death of many
a promising early-game character, they take up valuable floor space in
shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.

Discuss.

 

[Manuel]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> Suppose I started the game with a blessed ?oGenocide, or found one
> early on. It occurs to me that it would be well worth it to wipe out
> all classes of mimics.
>
> [...] they take up valuable floor space in
> shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
> scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.

I think it is a nice idea. Especially since there are always few of
them, so you won't get tougher monsters in their place (as opposed to
what would happen if you genocide a more common class).

On the other hand, a blessed scroll of genocide has better uses, IMHO.
I, for one, wouldn't choose mimics. But I may be biased because I'm
playing wizards lately (and they have less chances of being held by
mimics, if I am right).

--
Manuel.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

legopowa wrote:
> Reverse genociding silver dragons is usually my first choice
> since the protection racket usually provides enough AC to melee them
> individually.

Nice, but the racket does have a high mortality rate and a roomfull of
silver dragons has to be a scary prospect for any low-level player.
Sounds like a very risky strategy to me.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:
> dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
>
>>Suppose I started the game with a blessed ?oGenocide, or found one
>>early on. It occurs to me that it would be well worth it to wipe out
>>all classes of mimics.
>>
>>[...] they take up valuable floor space in
>>shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
>>scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.
>
>
> I think it is a nice idea. Especially since there are always few of
> them, so you won't get tougher monsters in their place (as opposed to
> what would happen if you genocide a more common class).
>
> On the other hand, a blessed scroll of genocide has better uses, IMHO.
> I, for one, wouldn't choose mimics. But I may be biased because I'm
> playing wizards lately (and they have less chances of being held by
> mimics, if I am right).
>

I love genociding mimic if it's still early on and it's not my first
blessed genocide; my first genocide is on 'a', since there are a lot of
those critters and I think they represent the greatest threat to a
low-level wizard.

There's no point in genociding the more powerful creatures yet. You'll
almost certainly find another scroll before encountering an L or ;, and
while you may hit a mind flayer pretty early on in the mines, it'll only
be one or two and they're not terribly hard one-on-one. Plus you get the
int boost.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

It's a decent little trick for usage before orcus town, but it's not
something I'd waste a first genocide scroll on. Reverse genociding silver
dragons is usually my first choice, since the protection racket usually
provides enough AC to melee them individually.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> Suppose I started the game with a blessed ?oGenocide, or found one
> early on. It occurs to me that it would be well worth it to wipe out
> all classes of mimics.
>
> Quite apart from the fact that they are annoying little blighters
that
> have directly or indirectly brought about the unnecessary death of
many
> a promising early-game character, they take up valuable floor space
in
> shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
> scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.
>

Wouldn't the shop be created with blank spaces were the mimics were,
assuming the mimics would'nt have been occupying spaces which contained
items anyway?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:

> legopowa wrote:
>> Reverse genociding silver dragons is usually my first choice
>> since the protection racket usually provides enough AC to melee
>> them individually.
>
> Nice, but the racket does have a high mortality rate and a roomfull
> of silver dragons has to be a scary prospect for any low-level
> player. Sounds like a very risky strategy to me.

Exactly how low level and what AC? It sounds like suicide to me and
even if you can write elbereth you have to have cold resistance or
reflection to pull that off. The protection racket does not give you
enough ac to melee dragons.

Jorge

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> David Justiss wrote:
>> "Tommi Syrjanen" wrote:
>>> Andy Johnson writes:
>
>>> I have ended up genociding 'a' by an early wizard on more than one
>>> occasion, but in those cases I waited until I was in a serious
>>> trouble with them. [...] In those cases it is a waste to prematurely
>>> genocide them, especially as that may cost you on the Astral Plane.
>
>> Astral plane? it's the beginning of the game! My number #1 monster to
>> get killed by by any non-barbarian or valkyrie character is the
>> soldier ants. I try to let my pet fight for me on the early levels,
>> but my pet almost always either gets killed or doesn't stay close
>> enough to me to do any good keeping me from gaining levels too fast.
>
> The goal of the game is to ascend. Of course, for that to succeed, you
> need to survive the early game. But you also need to survive the end
> game. if you genocide ants, the end game will get more difficult, since
> priests will no longer be able to summon them, and thereby surround you
> with a protective wall.

Perhaps I over-prepare for the end-game, but I have the feeling that the
added difficulty of not having ants on Astral is small compared to the
advantages of not having to deal with soldier ants in the early game. That
said, I'd probably still save an early ?oG for other uses/emergencies if I
had one.

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson <usenet@take-this.out.swervy.tk> writes:

> I love genociding mimic if it's still early on and it's not my first
> blessed genocide; my first genocide is on 'a', since there are a lot
> of those critters and I think they represent the greatest threat to a
> low-level wizard.

I have ended up genociding 'a' by an early wizard on more than one
occasion, but in those cases I waited until I was in a serious trouble
with them. Usually you get strong enough to handle them before you get
swarmed. In those cases it is a waste to prematurely genocide them,
especially as that may cost you on the Astral Plane.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Tommi Syrjanen" <tommi.syrjanen@enough.spam.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:7jfyysx2pe.fsf@cronotopology.tcs.hut.fi

> Andy Johnson <usenet@take-this.out.swervy.tk> writes:
>
> > I love genociding mimic if it's still early on and it's not my first
> > blessed genocide; my first genocide is on 'a', since there are a lot
> > of those critters and I think they represent the greatest threat to a
> > low-level wizard.
>
> I have ended up genociding 'a' by an early wizard on more than one
> occasion, but in those cases I waited until I was in a serious trouble
> with them. Usually you get strong enough to handle them before you get
> swarmed. In those cases it is a waste to prematurely genocide them,
> especially as that may cost you on the Astral Plane.

Astral plane? it's the beginning of the game! My number #1 monster to
get killed by by any non-barbarian or valkyrie character is the soldier
ants. I try to let my pet fight for me on the early levels, but my pet
almost always either gets killed or doesn't stay close enough to me to
do any good keeping me from gaining levels too fast. Suddenly I'm
an EXPL8 wizard and I find some soldier ants and I'm dead. sure I've
gotten to EXPL8 but I haven't gotten a better weapon than I started
with or enough ac to fight soldier ants.

Asher

In order to successfully do the protection racket I'd have to find a
magic whistle on level 1 to get my pet to stay with me.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:56:40 GMT,
john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) wrote:

> What about j's? - an ochre jelly is pretty fearsome for a low-level
> character and there's no benefit in any other j's.

j's are easily avoided because they don't move. IIRC, some j's confer
intrinsics when eaten, too.

Regards,
Dan

--
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
μâ‚€ × εâ‚€ × c² = 1

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:

> Quite apart from the fact that they are annoying little blighters that
> have directly or indirectly brought about the unnecessary death of
> many a promising early-game character, they take up valuable floor
> space in shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed
> boots, scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.

I'd save it and wait until I was cornered by a certain monster, with no
viable other means to save myself.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:

> I may be biased because I'm playing wizards lately (and they have
> less chances of being held by mimics, if I am right).

They don't. Every character class is as likely to be held by a mimic as
another class, given the same armour.

Perhaps magic cancellation makes a difference, in which case classes
that start out with MC3 do indeed have a better chance not to be held.

Your best chance, of course, is to not move next to them, but battle
them from a distance. Wizards are indeed useful in this regard. Watch
out, though, when you're using force bolt in a shop: be wary of
destroying the shopkeeper's stuff.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Justiss wrote:
> "Tommi Syrjanen" wrote:
>> Andy Johnson writes:

>> I have ended up genociding 'a' by an early wizard on more than one
>> occasion, but in those cases I waited until I was in a serious
>> trouble with them. [...] In those cases it is a waste to prematurely
>> genocide them, especially as that may cost you on the Astral Plane.

> Astral plane? it's the beginning of the game! My number #1 monster to
> get killed by by any non-barbarian or valkyrie character is the
> soldier ants. I try to let my pet fight for me on the early levels,
> but my pet almost always either gets killed or doesn't stay close
> enough to me to do any good keeping me from gaining levels too fast.

The goal of the game is to ascend. Of course, for that to succeed, you
need to survive the early game. But you also need to survive the end
game. if you genocide ants, the end game will get more difficult, since
priests will no longer be able to summon them, and thereby surround you
with a protective wall.

> In order to successfully do the protection racket I'd have to find a
> magic whistle on level 1 to get my pet to stay with me.

If your pet is lagging, you should return to it. It's not your pet that
has to stay close to you, but the other way around.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com was moved to say:

>Quite apart from the fact that they are annoying little blighters that
>have directly or indirectly brought about the unnecessary death of many
>a promising early-game character, they take up valuable floor space in
>shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
>scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.
>
>Discuss.

Mimics are annoying little blighters, yes, and meeting a giant mimic
too early is likely to be fatal. However, there are other ways of
easing the threat and annoyance of mimics - ring of protection from
shape changers, wand of secret door detection - not to mention that I
like to let my pet deal with mimics which I wake up inside a shop.

Side note: On level 4 of Sokoban yesterday I noticed a boulder in a
spot where it is not usually found. Very weird, I thought. Suppose
I'll have to strip down and squeeze past it to push it out of the way
(it was at the end of the corridor of holes). You can see where this
is headed - it was a mimic. Only large, not giant, and I was able to
deal with it but I was momentarily kicking myself for not realising
the obvious.

--

JPD


SGFN

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson <usenet@take-this.out.swervy.tk> was moved to say:

>I love genociding mimic if it's still early on and it's not my first
>blessed genocide; my first genocide is on 'a', since there are a lot of
>those critters and I think they represent the greatest threat to a
>low-level wizard.

Ants and bees are a threat, for sure, but to blessed-genocide all a's
would take beehives out of the game, and I think the risk/reward
equation for a beehive is way way in favour of the player.

What about j's? - an ochre jelly is pretty fearsome for a low-level
character and there's no benefit in any other j's.

If removing attack threats is your prime motivation, then q has to be
the genocide of choice in the top half of the dungeon. They're
strong, they're fast, and in the case of rothes they arrive en masse.
Lower down, you would take out L's firstly and then probably ; or U
since no good can come of any of them.

--

JPD


SGFN

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Lichen Fodder" <mantill@gmail.com> was moved to say:

>Wouldn't the shop be created with blank spaces were the mimics were,
>assuming the mimics would'nt have been occupying spaces which contained
>items anyway?

I wouldn't think so.

I can't find a reference to this in the spoilers, and I can't read the
source code: But I assume that for any shop created on any level, the
probability of any item square being a mimic is relative to the depth
in the dungeon and the size of the shop, but *assuming* that mimics
still exist. If they have been genocided or are extinct, then the
is-this-square-in-the-shop-a-mimic test would fail automatically and
so that square would become a shop inventory item by default.

--

JPD


SGFN

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

JPD wrote:
> dogscoff@eudoramail.com was moved to say:
>
>
>>Quite apart from the fact that they are annoying little blighters that
>>have directly or indirectly brought about the unnecessary death of many
>>a promising early-game character, they take up valuable floor space in
>>shops that might otherwise be occupied by magic lamps, speed boots,
>>scrolls of ID, magic markers and so on.
>>
>>Discuss.
>
>
> Mimics are annoying little blighters, yes, and meeting a giant mimic
> too early is likely to be fatal. However, there are other ways of
> easing the threat and annoyance of mimics - ring of protection from
> shape changers, wand of secret door detection - not to mention that I
> like to let my pet deal with mimics which I wake up inside a shop.
>

That was why the main point of genociding mimics was so that items would
be generated in shops in place of them.

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Shadow
|Moo. > \/
\____/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

The reason I asked was because I thought that the mimics would be
generated first and then removed afterwards owing to the genocide,
hence blank spaces. I'll have to try this next time I have a ?oG.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 3/18/05 7:41 AM, jorge estrada wrote:
> The protection racket does not give you
> enough ac to melee dragons.

Really? I thought it made you Invulnerable to All Possible Attacks.

--
Kevin Wayne

"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"Waters? What waters? We're in the desert?"
"I was misinformed."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

<dogscoff@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:1111148122.597434.17890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> legopowa wrote:
>> Reverse genociding silver dragons is usually my first choice
>> since the protection racket usually provides enough AC to melee them
>> individually.
>
> Nice, but the racket does have a high mortality rate and a roomfull of
> silver dragons has to be a scary prospect for any low-level player.
> Sounds like a very risky strategy to me.
>
It's possible with around -15 AC and 90+ health, which can be had without
much difficulty, even without healing. Their melee attacks are weak, but I'd
get cold resistance too just in case one flees and uses the breath attack.
As for singling the dragons out, that's up to the player using the
environment to advantage.

Lastly, the protection racket's success is raised significantly with
patience, armor rating and good pet handling. Bolting down to minetown with
10 AC and a kitten will work far less than doing so with say, -1 AC and a
large dog.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Kevin Wayne" <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yM7%d.191$0E.21703@monger.newsread.com...
> On 3/18/05 7:41 AM, jorge estrada wrote:
>> The protection racket does not give you
>> enough ac to melee dragons.
>
> Really? I thought it made you Invulnerable to All Possible Attacks.


You act as if dragons are a huge threat. Their melee attack is much weaker
than their breath attack, all the big dragons do only 3d8 1d4 1d4 up close,
compared to the 4d6 or more damage of the varying breath attacks (4d25 turns
of sleep for orange dragons, the only dragon with non-damaging breath
attacks).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Question answered, thank you.

I did once genocide MF's then a little later wished for a tin of MF
meat. The result was interesting.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Lichen Fodder wrote:

> The reason I asked was because I thought that the mimics would be
> generated first and then removed afterwards owing to the genocide,
> hence blank spaces. I'll have to try this next time I have a ?oG.

When something is genocided it *no longer exists*. When you come to a new
level, monsters are generated from the set of existing monsters.

So, on levels you've already been on (and where the monsters have already
been generated) you get blank spaces; on new levels you get objects.

Raisse, killed by a giant mimic

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) wrote:
>What about j's? - an ochre jelly is pretty fearsome for a low-level
>character and there's no benefit in any other j's.

Ochre jellies are *much* slower than the player (speed 3 vs speed 12).
Blue jellies can give poison or cold resistance when eaten, albeit not
very often.

>If removing attack threats is your prime motivation, then q has to be
>the genocide of choice in the top half of the dungeon. They're
>strong, they're fast, and in the case of rothes they arrive en masse.

Rothes and mumakil are 25% slower than a normal-speed player character.
Leocrottas are 50% faster, but their flurry of attacks is much more
susceptible to being degraded by negative armour class than a mumak's
crushing blow. (And their threat rating is eight, to the mumak's seven).
The leocrotta is also four points easier to hit than the mumak, but has
about 20% more hit points on average; this is probably a wash, overall.

Early genocides should, if possible, be saved for a panic-button escape
from a deadly opponent (for example, if you're cornered by a mumak and
have neither an athame nor a scroll of scare monster or teleportation
nor a wand of fire, lightning, teleportation, sleep, or digging) by
wiping out that monster.

Once you're past the early game, use your scrolls of genocide to wipe
out the nastiest/most annoying late-game monsters - arch-liches, master
liches, master mind flayers, mind flayers, and disenchanters. Use
blessed genocide of 'L' and 'h' and 'R' if you don't mind the collateral
damage in the 'h' category. In general, this is what you should direct
throne genocides towards, as well.

Don't bother genociding ';' until you've got rid of the big liches,
both flavours of mind flayer, and disenchanters; the correct way to deal
with ';' is one or other of wearing oilskin (greased cloak is OK, as
long as you're paying attention), being immune to suffocation (either
by putting on an "oMB or by polyselfing to a breathless form), or using
missile attacks (thrown rocks will suffice, by and large).
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html