Blue Or Brown Switches?

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I can't really get responses in my mechanical keyboards topic and need to buy something tonight.

I am mostly seeing if any programmers are on here and whether they prefer blue or brown.

I already am about decided on the das 4 professional, but I go back and forth on blue vs/brown switches.

Yes I know all about them, but have only tried them in a store, not extensively typing.

Most say get blue for programming, but I also figure the more pressure required to press the key, the more it will bother my fingers. Also I wonder if someone in an apartment above or below where I type would hear blue ones. Honestly, my standard keyboard seems loud to me, so I am not so sure blue is louder... But I may still prefer brown.

 

[azaran]

If the standard switch sounds loud to you, then avoid the blues. Granted the standard keyboard is more a matter of the keys bottoming out, and o-rings can help with that one whatever you buy, but if that level of noise is more than you want you'll be happier with the browns.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

If the standard switch sounds loud to you, then avoid the blues. Granted the standard keyboard is more a matter of the keys bottoming out, and o-rings can help with that one whatever you buy, but if that level of noise is more than you want you'll be happier with the browns.

what I mean is I tried a blue on in a store and I am not so sure it's louder than this standard one. Maybe because of how hard I press keys or maybe some of my keys are broken.... my space bar definitely is. So I am saying it's legit possible this keyboard is not louder than the blue switch ones.

Either way, I am so stressed deciding. The problem with brown is when I tried one it felt "too" little resistance to where I am not sure if I'd be able to type without bottoming out because of it hard to notice the bump usually.

Also, my vision sucks, so thought about buying max keyboard large print from amazon. But really I should be learning to touch type anyway.... and I already do memorize where most keys are.

 

[azaran]

Oh gotcha. If you're overly concerned about not feeling the bump then go blue. I use a brown and honestly don't notice the bump, but I wanted something a bit more than what reds offered. If the noise of bottoming out is a concern you can always get an o-ring dampening kit for the new keyboard.

If you're looking for a custom print, I'd take a look at WASD keyboards. I know you already plan on a DAS 4 but WASD makes customizing your layout very easy.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

So do you bottom out your keys on the brown? If you don't notice the bumps, what advantage would it even have over red, other than being a tad less sensitive?

I'm also worried that I wont get used to a mechanical at all... Although, my mom used to be a programmer and she tried a mechanical in the store and said it was no problem for her.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

ps I have finger and wrist issues and type with 2 fingers. lol. so 1. a mechanical is supposedly easier on the fingers and 2. if I learn touch typing it would be easier on the wrists probably AND my neck due to not having to look down at keys (which I only do when I accidentally get my fingers mixed up on where they're at on the keyboard).

 

[azaran]

I thought I'd notice the bumps and didn't exactly like the feel of the reds so I went with what I thought was a good middle ground. Turns out my life and selection would have been easier if I'd just gone with reds. I do bottom out but that's more from constantly switching between membrane at work and mechanical at home.

The actuation is supposed to be less with a mechanical so it should be better for you, but that's going to depends on how you type more than anything else. Don't worry about getting used to it. The biggest issue I had to deal with when switching was keycap size difference (swear to god the corsair and logitech keycaps are tiny compared to my old membrane) and general layout of the new keyboard. But thats going to be pretty much the case with any new keyboard you get.

As for typing better, touch typing is good but body positioning is a much larger factor. Most people types with their palms on the palm rest (hence it's name) but that puts your hands at a pretty unnatural positioning. A touch typing class, aside from getting away from two finger typing, would be good for overall ergonomic health. For neck issues I'd highly recommend looking in to monitor stands or monitor arms. A set of arms made a world of difference for my neck issues.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

What complicates my situation is my bad vision (uncorrectable mostly... not a good solution for reading a monitor), so I I am right up near the screen, hunched over, getting headaches, eneck issues, shoulder issue.

I was going to at least raise the monitor even more, but then I read that you should line your eyes up with the TOP of the monitor to lessen headaches, but obviously my neck would be better if the monitor is more eye level in the center. This has got so bad I am doing physical therapy. Trying to figure it out where I don't have to figure out a new type of job.

My concern is that brown may make me bottom out still if I don't feel the bumps enough, which defeats a bit of the purpose of mechanical. But then blue will be too loud. Sigh. Is it complicated adding o-rings?

 

[azaran]

I can't imagine using monitors with eye level being the top of the monitor. Raise the monitor up if you're having to lean in to read it, it'll prevent the hunching. That alone will help your neck and shoulders. Raising it up to the point where eye level was at the 3/4 to 2/3 level worked for me but your needs will be specific to you. You can throw some books under the monitor for a week and see if it helps your neck. If it does then look in to a good long term solution. Also look in to accessibility options in the OS. You can use onscreen magnifiers and larger fonts to help with your vision.

Unfortunately only you can figure out if the bumps are enough for you and really only using it long term will let you really know. As for the o-rings, no its not complicated. Tedious yes, but not hard. You're just pulling the cap and putting the o-ring on it, the only one that might be challenging would be the spacebar. You just have to do it for every key, which is why most keyboards that offer it as an option charge like $25. Amazon has a ton of kits, so it's just a matter of finding which size you want and if you want to buy a keycap puller to help with popping the caps out. WASD sells their kits on amazon as well as on their own site.
https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Rubber-Ring-Switch-Dampeners/dp/B00AZQ3966/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1510122973&sr=1-5&keywords=keyboard+o-ring
https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Rubber-Ring-Switch-Dampeners/dp/B00AZQ2OF8/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1510122973&sr=1-7&keywords=keyboard+o-ring
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/42/category/11/?limit=50

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

oh ok, so most likely das ones are not customizable to the point of being able to use o-rings then? I saw WASD one I liked, but most likely am still settling on das. Every choice I have ahs some drawback, so have to just get one and see.

It's holiday return period at many stores, already, so I can try one for months and still return it (well, if I dont make it look clearly used... so I guess I cant really type for months on it lol) and return it if I think my switch choice is not the best. I assume return shipping on a keyboard would likely be $10 or so, so not that much to risk.

Yeah, I read that for some reason if you line it up with the top at eye level, where you look DOWN at the monitor, it causes less headaches. But obviously then you're bending your neck. lol. So I''d assume that would cause headaches itself!

Thanks for the responses. Hopefully I figure something out because I MUST buy very soon. My space bar is so screwed up I can't accurately type quickly. So need to hurry before I lose business. I am leaning towards brown at this point....but still confused why people have said in some articles that brown is basically blue without the click noise... but that isn't true, it also has less of a bump as well.

 

[azaran]

Oh you can use the o-rings on the DAS its just WASD sells them in an easy to understand format instead of getting in to the nitty gritty of sizes and materials. There's a ton of manufactures out there.

Here's a blog post on the subject.
http://blog.wooting.nl/sound-dampen-your-mechanical-keyboard-noises/

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

This sucks. I just flat can't decide and I really badly needed to order by now. It's holding me up from doing work that I have a deadline on, due to a broken space bar making things more complicated to do without bugs.

I decided on blue, then brown, then blue, then brown, back and forth... I really think blue will be too loud, dampening it will change the feel to where I may not like it, and brown sounds like it would be pointless unless you press very softly to feel the bumps. I saw someone describe brown as a "dirty red", ie not enough difference to feel the bump, so just a harder to press red.

I MUST order within the next 20 hours and just don't know. And every keyboard ahs some complaints. Many say the das space bar doesn't pop back up fast enough, for instance, and they don't like the type of kickstand it uses. But I don't think I'd consider anything else other than the max keyboard large print, and like I said... eventually I will likely not be looking at a keyboard and large print would be a waste then.

 

[azaran]

This sucks. I just flat can't decide and I really badly needed to order by now. It's holding me up from doing work that I have a deadline on, due to a broken space bar making things more complicated to do without bugs.

I decided on blue, then brown, then blue, then brown, back and forth... I really think blue will be too loud, dampening it will change the feel to where I may not like it, and brown sounds like it would be pointless unless you press very softly to feel the bumps. I saw someone describe brown as a "dirty red", ie not enough difference to feel the bump, so just a harder to press red.

I MUST order within the next 20 hours and just don't know. And every keyboard ahs some complaints. Many say the das space bar doesn't pop back up fast enough, for instance, and they don't like the type of kickstand it uses. But I don't think I'd consider anything else other than the max keyboard large print, and like I said... eventually I will likely not be looking at a keyboard and large print would be a waste then.

Don't over think it. Grab a blue, see if you like it. If it's too noisy but you like the keypress, grab some o-rings and see if you like it. If it turns out you don't, and the noise just is too much return it for a brown.

Since you prefer the large print on the DAS keep it, print wont matter one way or another eventually so better to have it than not. Every keyboard in existence will have an element someone doesn't like. I could go on for hours about the nickpicky stuff I have over mouse and keyboards, but at the end of the day your opinion on what you like is what's important. Pay attention to reviews on things like build quality, known issues, etc since that's something that has nothing to do with your personal preference. Beyond that ignore most of the stuff since it's all subjective. You've sorted out what you like, don't stress yourself out over little things. You have a time table, you have a model, go for it. If you honestly can't decide, flip a coin. Either the coin toss decides it or you figure out what you actually want while the coin is in the air.

 

[Karadjgne]

Bad eyesight, bad wrists, type with 2 fingers because even after 2x years if typing class still can't get the hang of the keys so have to type looking at the kb. That's me. So I can totally empathize with that.

My solution was a Logitech G-110 multi-colored keyboard. It's blue/red/purple back-lit keys. Wife prefers red, that's all blurry, so is purple to some extent, but blue is clear as day. It has wide keys, so works well with my fat fingers. It's not mechanical, it's softer touch, but not like a laptops kb. It's the best kb I've had over the last 30odd years simply because the keys are effortless. My wife is a pro, she can hit 150wpm on it, on my Cougar quasi-mechanical (she hates that one) she's closer to 120wpm simply because the keys require a harder down push. The Logitech is near silent for a kb, the Cougar sounds like a machine gun gone nuts when she types. So you might not tell the difference right off, between the blue/brown bit once you get comfortable with the kb then every little difference will be totally noticeable.

So what typer are you really? Ham fisted, slam the keys hard, make sure you really hit it kinda typer? Or the slow press, 10wpm wasd (after placing middle finger on W) and slap space with thumb kind of typer? That'll tell you what keys to look for, regardless if they are blue or brown or red etc.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I have always been the type to press pretty hard on keys because of using the 2 fingers were it wont take forever. But since that is bad for the fingers and wrists, I want to learn to be able to not press as hard and use a mechanical without bottoming out. Obviously, no idea if I would be successful or not. But hoping so... and may at least TRY to learn touch typing, but I am so fast even with 2 fingers and soused to it this way with over 20 years fo typing this way. lol.

azaran, the max keyboard is the one with large print, das ones look pretty standard.

Honestly, for ME, loudness wont likely matter. But this woman who lives below me complains about SOMETHING any time I see her. I can hear her closet door open in her apartment below me, so am figuring she will hear typing.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I ended up just ordering brown. Sigh. Hopefully I like it well enough.$149 is a lot for a keyboard.

 

[Karadjgne]

Good luck with your choice

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I'm sure I wont be happy. lol. I am very picky. I wanted to at least get mechanical, since i havent tried any long, though. Can always return it.

Yesterday I tested to see what my wpm is. I had never even thought about it before. I did between 90-100,which I think is mighty good for 2 fingers. lol. I was worried it was still way too low, since you said your wife does120-150 and I know a lot of other say about that range. Some site claims the average person is around only40 wpm, though, and even a lot of people who type for a living are around 75.

 

[Karadjgne]

I've been typing for almost 40 years, first learned on the old 'slam-a-key' swing arm type mechanical typewriter. So pretty much been through the whole range from mechanical to electric to soft to pc mechanical and quasi-mechanical and still can't type without looking at the keyboard. I average 20-30wpm. Using 2 fingers and thumbs.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I sadly have to look at it quite a bit, too, still. I'm like banging my fingers and rushing to type everything, though, and I bet that explains a lot of my finger and wrist issues! I don't think someone could type a lot of words per minute with 2 fingers and not be straining something.

I do know generally where letters are, but a few I kind of mix up... like I know uio are in a row, but I sometimes forget the order and have to eventually look. lol.

 

[Karadjgne]

Some ppl can draw, some can't. Some ppl can drive, some can't. Some ppl can jump off cliffs with a parachute, some can't. Some ppl can type without glancing at the kb, some can't. So don't feel bad, you aren't alone. Lol

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

So far it is feeling pretty good. Just occasionally hitting the wrong keys, trying to get used to it.

Now my main issue holding me back is my vision makes me have to get right up at the monitor and for some reason it right off does weird things to my head. I have had vision issues forever, this is diff than usual. Seems to happen less when I wear glasses, which I normally never do at the computer. If I could ever get someone to give a prescription for reading/computer glasses, then maybe I could also sit up straight and be farther from the screen. But usually they act like none will help me much. It will suck if after all this time, I have to quit and find a new job.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

sigh. i dunno if I can get used to this or not. if not, I have to just buy my normal model used off of ebay and forget mechanicals.

And now I may have to quit programming totally and have no idea what job to get. The monitor is bothering my eyes and head so much lately, I don't know if I can stand it anymore. Used to, it would bother me after hours, but now it bothers me within 2 minutes.

 

[Karadjgne]

What lighting do you use by the monitor and what's the Hz of the monitor. Most cases of headaches are reported as being issues with florescent fixtures with its 60Hz blink or with monitors at 60Hz. A change to incandescent bulbs, either going to daylight/reveal style or to a dimmer soft white usually works and changing the refresh of the monitor to 72/75Hz works as well. If you look at video of a tv/monitor and see the banding running up/down the screen, that's what's happening in your brain with the 60/60, causing stress. You can't change the lighting refresh, that's stuck at electrical 60Hz, but differentiating the monitor can improve things.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

What lighting do you use by the monitor and what's the Hz of the monitor. Most cases of headaches are reported as being issues with florescent fixtures with its 60Hz blink or with monitors at 60Hz. A change to incandescent bulbs, either going to daylight/reveal style or to a dimmer soft white usually works and changing the refresh of the monitor to 72/75Hz works as well. If you look at video of a tv/monitor and see the banding running up/down the screen, that's what's happening in your brain with the 60/60, causing stress. You can't change the lighting refresh, that's stuck at electrical 60Hz, but differentiating the monitor can improve things.

I have no lighting by the monitor itself. The room lighting is incandescents (they phased them out in the US, so I have to buy them off of ebay).

The monitor, however, is a CCFL LCD (ie fluorescent backlighting) that ONLY can be set to 60hz. I have wondered before if a higher refresh rate would help or if it's all due to me being so close to the monitor (that part can't be changed much, even with any sort of glasses, due to my condition).

I get headaches from my tvs, also, the top plasma ever made and the top (in my opinion) oled ever made, but it's not the same as how this monitor does. I even wondered if switching between display types could be part of the issue, too...