Question Boosting on R5 3600

May 12, 2020
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Hi,

I'm starting my pc build that I waited months for, and I picked the Ryzen 5 3600 processor init.
with a B450 Aorus Pro motherboard, CPU Cooler is Hyper 212 RGB BE, pretty basic.
What I do is gaming only for long hours with no streaming, and I want the CPU lasting years..
Yes I don't like overclocking in that matter and I want to avoid it, and I live in a area where its hot, so I need to keep cool.

I'm cool with stock speeds if they're performing great, but a lot of reports said I should undervolt because of high temps since they come high as default
  1. If I keep stock 3.6Ghz, how much should I undervolt?
  2. If I do a safe boost to 3.9-4.0-4.1Ghz, which one is safe on the long term?
  3. How do I balance between Core clocks and Voltage? and whats the range of a safe voltage on this processor.
  4. do I have to bench test every change just to make sure its running OK at reasonable temps?
And what temps should I expect to be "normal" for the cooler I have?

based on your experince, whats the best safe clocks & voltages for this cpu?
I need to be set tomorrow when I finish my build, so any tips are appreciated.

Thanks for any help!
 

madmatt30

Titan
Ambassador
You should be ok with a 212 instead of the stock wraith stealth.

What's the rest of the setup??

Do you plan on locking to 60fps max (vysnc) if you're using a 60htz monitor??

The reason I ask is becaue if that's the case you can pretty much disable pbo entirely in bios.

At base clocks the ryzen is easily capable of pushing more than 60fps.
 
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May 12, 2020
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You should be ok with a 212 instead of the stock wraith stealth.

What's the rest of the setup??

Do you plan on locking to 60fps max (vysnc) if you're using a 60htz monitor??

The reason I ask is becaue if that's the case you can pretty much disable pbo entirely in bios.

At base clocks the ryzen is easily capable of pushing more than 60fps.
Well the GPU is RTX 2060, 60Hz monitor at the moment, will upgrade ASAP to 1080p 144Hz.

Its for sure with this 60Hz monitor will not be able to go any higher than 60 on the screen.
What happens If I disable PBO in BIOS? whats the effect of it? and should I really be adjusting it instead of just using ryzen master?

Also I hope you answer the first Q's

Thanks!
 
Well the GPU is RTX 2060, 60Hz monitor at the moment, will upgrade ASAP to 1080p 144Hz.

Its for sure with this 60Hz monitor will not be able to go any higher than 60 on the screen.
What happens If I disable PBO in BIOS? whats the effect of it? and should I really be adjusting it instead of just using ryzen master?

Also I hope you answer the first Q's

Thanks!
Automatic boost on Ryzen depends mostly on temperatures, best is under 62-65c. Over 70c some loss of boost is already noticeable.
 

dorsai

Honorable
The only thing you need to do is take care of temps by using a proper CPU cooler...let the CPU handle volts and clock speed as it's designed to do. Under-volting should be a last resort when proper cooling is not available.

"Its for sure with this 60Hz monitor will not be able to go any higher than 60 on the screen. "

A 60 hz monitor will absolutely allow more than 60fps...just disable Vsync in the nVidia control panel and in game and enable triple-buffering. While still only getting 60fps on screen the individual frame you'll get from the GPU will be updated much faster so latency will drop dramatically. If you're on an HDMI cable swap it out for a regular DVI cable. You may get some occasional screen tearing or other visual artifacts but that's a small price for gaming at higher refresh rates.
 
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May 12, 2020
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Automatic boost on Ryzen depends mostly on temperatures, best is under 62-65c. Over 70c some loss of boost is already noticeable.
The more the heat the more my CPU will age faster, correct?

Well as for clocks its not automatic and I must set it manually using ryzen master
Still didn't answer my questions skipping that undervolt thing since I have a decent cooler.. I guess.
 
May 12, 2020
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The only thing you need to do is take care of temps by using a proper CPU cooler...let the CPU handle volts and clock speed as it's designed to do. Under-volting should be a last resort when proper cooling is not available.

"Its for sure with this 60Hz monitor will not be able to go any higher than 60 on the screen. "

A 60 hz monitor will absolutely allow more than 60fps...just disable Vsync in the nVidia control panel and in game and enable triple-buffering. While still only getting 60fps on screen the individual frame you'll get from the GPU will be updated much faster so latency will drop dramatically. If you're on an HDMI cable swap it out for a regular DVI cable. You may get some occasional screen tearing or other visual artifacts but that's a small price for gaming at higher refresh rates.
True, temps are important, but I'm asking help on how do I control it, skipping that undervolt thing since I probably won't do it.

Really appreciate this tip right here, but honestly, DVI is getting old and I'll just wait till I get a new monitor.
I hope we don't go out of context here, I still didn't get answers on my 2,3,4 questions in the post.

Thanks for the help!
 
The more the heat the more my CPU will age faster, correct?

Well as for clocks its not automatic and I must set it manually using ryzen master
Still didn't answer my questions skipping that undervolt thing since I have a decent cooler.. I guess.
Yes, temperature is one of aging factors but so is too high voltage, Can't really get closer answer than that because no 2 CPUs or systems are alike. idea is to find some middle ground while not loosing performance. You'll just have to try it yourself.
 
  • If I do a safe boost to 3.9-4.0-4.1Ghz, which one is safe on the long term?
  • How do I balance between Core clocks and Voltage? and whats the range of a safe voltage on this processor.
  • do I have to bench test every change just to make sure its running OK at reasonable temps?
Obviously, the lower clock results in lesser heat output and less degradation, and so is 'safer'. But even 4.1 isn't going to be unsafe so long as temperature is good and voltage isn't at some crazy high fixed value. A Hyper 212 will cool it very well, so that should be covered and, when left in AUTO, voltage is handled by the algorithm so that's covered too.

You best balance VCore and clocks by letting the processor's algorithm do it for you. That's the absolute truth as it's extremely well optimized for doing it and does it dynamically, at a rate impossible for humans to even comprehend.

There's no reason to bench test anything if you just leave voltage and frequency settings in AUTO.

There, question 2, 3, 4 are answered.

But as far as question 1: how much to undervolt is strictly determined by the specific silicon capability of your processor and how the manufacturer set up your motherboard. If you choose to undervolt, do it ONLY by using OFFSET adjustments, a slight amount at a time.

Benchtest with CineBench 20 and do both the multithread and single thread tests before declaring it 'good'. It's easy to kill performance in one. Single thread performance better reflects gaming performance BTW. But in the end, even if you do see performance improvements in CB20 you probably won't appreciate them in real world applications. Gaming especially since that depends far more on GPU.
 
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robbiebout

Commendable
Apr 28, 2018
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My 3600 is running at 4100mhz at around 1.25v. Even thought it is running 100mhz higher than stock, it is running way cooler. Stock voltages are around 1.45v which is higher than needed and due to higer temps it may shorten it's life. High temps will also prevent it from boosting to the max.
 
May 12, 2020
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My 3600 is running at 4100mhz at around 1.25v. Even thought it is running 100mhz higher than stock, it is running way cooler. Stock voltages are around 1.45v which is higher than needed and due to higer temps it may shorten it's life. High temps will also prevent it from boosting to the max.
Obviously, the lower clock results in lesser heat output and less degradation, and so is 'safer'. But even 4.1 isn't going to be unsafe so long as temperature is good and voltage isn't at some crazy high fixed value. A Hyper 212 will cool it very well, so that should be covered and, when left in AUTO, voltage is handled by the algorithm so that's covered too.

You best balance VCore and clocks by letting the processor's algorithm do it for you. That's the absolute truth as it's extremely well optimized for doing it and does it dynamically, at a rate impossible for humans to even comprehend.

There's no reason to bench test anything if you just leave voltage and frequency settings in AUTO.

There, question 2, 3, 4 are answered.

But as far as question 1: how much to undervolt is strictly determined by the specific silicon capability of your processor and how the manufacturer set up your motherboard. If you choose to undervolt, do it ONLY by using OFFSET adjustments, a slight amount at a time.

Benchtest with CineBench 20 and do both the multithread and single thread tests before declaring it 'good'. It's easy to kill performance in one. Single thread performance better reflects gaming performance BTW. But in the end, even if you do see performance improvements in CB20 you probably won't appreciate them in real world applications. Gaming especially since that depends far more on GPU.
Great, So I finally built the system few days ago, here is the results:
Idle "no pressure on the CPU or 3-5% usage":

I think the CPU Tctl is the temp of the CPU, so avg is 38.6c, cool?

As on Cinebench20 test, At 3.6GHz on multicore:

CPU temps were mostly stuck in 68c on multicore
but on single core, it was 52c super stable


Are these good results? and did the clocks boosted to 4.2GHz right? because you see maximum clock went to 4.19GHz
and I didn't do anything to the CPU settings, no ryzen master no anything, just the way it came.

As for the voltages, they do reach 1.4v but in a cool temperature maybe 60c, is that fine?
 
Great, So I finally built the system few days ago, here is the results:
Idle "no pressure on the CPU or 3-5% usage":
...
I think the CPU Tctl is the temp of the CPU, so avg is 38.6c, cool?

As on Cinebench20 test, At 3.6GHz on multicore:
...
CPU temps were mostly stuck in 68c on multicore
but on single core, it was 52c super stable
.....

Are these good results? and did the clocks boosted to 4.2GHz right? because you see maximum clock went to 4.19GHz
and I didn't do anything to the CPU settings, no ryzen master no anything, just the way it came.

As for the voltages, they do reach 1.4v but in a cool temperature maybe 60c, is that fine?
CPU Tctl/Tdie is an instantaneous report from the hottest of all the sensors on the die(s) at that moment in time. CPU die (average) is a running average of the readings and is more representative of the actual thermal state of the processor.

A Tdie of 38-39C seems pretty good to me for idling. 68-69C for Tdie (average) readings during a Cinebench multi-thread test is also OK.

But if your processor is running around 3.5-3.6Ghz during a CB20 it's only running at base speed. That's what you paid for, but you should also be able to get CB20 multi-thread at higher clocks, possible in the 3.9-4.1Ghz range, and score a lot higher too. I'd do it with PBO tweaks. But temps will go up, maybe into the 80's maybe only upper 70's, and that will limit just how high the clocks can go so better cooling will be needed to get there. A 212 is better than a Stealth but there are even better still. When pushing fo the best boosting in heavy loads, Ryzen likes cooling.
 
May 12, 2020
63
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30
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CPU Tctl/Tdie is an instantaneous report from the hottest of all the sensors on the die(s) at that moment in time. CPU die (average) is a running average of the readings and is more representative of the actual thermal state of the processor.

A Tdie of 38-39C seems pretty good to me for idling. 68-69C for Tdie (average) readings during a Cinebench multi-thread test is also OK.

But if your processor is running around 3.5-3.6Ghz during a CB20 it's only running at base speed. That's what you paid for, but you should also be able to get CB20 multi-thread at higher clocks, possible in the 3.9-4.1Ghz range, and score a lot higher too. I'd do it with PBO tweaks. But temps will go up, maybe into the 80's maybe only upper 70's, and that will limit just how high the clocks can go so better cooling will be needed to get there. A 212 is better than a Stealth but there are even better still. When pushing fo the best boosting in heavy loads, Ryzen likes cooling.
yes that is correct for the 3.6Ghz, but what about that maximum cores clock "4,192.4Mhz" ? isn't that the speed of clock? so its boosting to 4.1Ghz or is it just at stock speed 3.6Ghz?

If I do any change in that stock speed in ryzen master, in the range of 3.6-4.2Ghz it will count as overclocking?

any tips for the future? if I need to boost that 3.6Ghz? or if I saw high temps on boosted, lowering voltages in that case?
 
yes that is correct for the 3.6Ghz, but what about that maximum cores clock "4,192.4Mhz" ? isn't that the speed of clock? so its boosting to 4.1Ghz or is it just at stock speed 3.6Ghz?

If I do any change in that stock speed in ryzen master, in the range of 3.6-4.2Ghz it will count as overclocking?

any tips for the future? if I need to boost that 3.6Ghz? or if I saw high temps on boosted, lowering voltages in that case?
The 4,192.4Mhz number (or 4.2 ghz) you're seeing in the 'max' column is the max single core boost speed. It's just a quick boost, very short and then drops back down. It will boost only one core at a time. Again, tweaking PBO can frequently get more cores to boost more frequently but they never do it all at once. It will not hit 4.2Ghz in a CB20 run, except maybe very briefly at the beginning.

The performance benefit from that boosting (to 4.2Ghz) is hard to measure and probably negligible if you could measure it. The real performance benefit comes if it sustains all-core boosting in the 3.9-4.1Ghz range when the processor is working hard, instead of the 3.6Ghz you're currently seeing.

As far as future tips: tweak PBO, do not try fixed all-core overclocking. Suggested settings for PBO is to enable it in manual and set PPT to 333, EDC and TDC to 230. Then lower voltage using offsets only, one or two notches at a time. Test with Cinebench to see if it's improving scores. Usually only a very slight negative offset is needed before it starts degrading performance or stability.

Oh yeah: and get aftermarket cooling.
 
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