Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (
More info?)
OK we can agree upon that, but this is a long way from booting directly from
a USB HDD.
"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ek37rlydEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I was suggesting it possible to boot off a floppy that loads the drivers
> for the external drive and then loads the OS off that external hard
> drive. There would be no way to directly boot off an external harddrive
> if the BIOS does not support it. I have not even tested loading the
> external drive's drivers and booting off it by booting off a floppy at
> startup. I have a feeling that I was just too tired and unclear in my
> posts.
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> > Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you
may
> > then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying
(in
> > the other respondents words).
> >
> > As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.
> >
> > It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance
you
> > did not intend to offend.
> >
> > Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how
read
> > it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting
from
> > a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB
HDD;
> > would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
> > cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
> > recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
> > Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if
the
> > BIOS does not allow this?
> >
> >
> > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:OXXPnzsdEHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> >
> >>I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
> >>did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
> >>with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
> >>couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
> >>my USB Flash Drive works).
> >>
> >>Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
> >>don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
> >>included that part and I never intended to attack that.
> >>
> >>I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
> >>say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
> >>you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).
> >>
> >>----
> >>Nathan McNulty
> >>
> >>
> >>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >>>You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work
around?
> >>>Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system
> >
> > from an
> >
> >>>external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental
> >
> > here I
> >
> >>>don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you
load
> >>>until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This
is
> >
> > not
> >
> >>>the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the
> >
> > OS
> >
> >>>from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot
> >
> > from a
> >
> >>>USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event
> >
> > of a
> >
> >>>failure of the fixed HDD system.
> >>>
> >>>With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I
> >
> > was
> >
> >>>offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may
> >
> > be
> >
> >>>trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
> >>>worked through and thought my experience may save others the same
> >
> > trouble I
> >
> >>>had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from
> >
> > my
> >
> >>>searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of
> >
> > using
> >
> >>>fdisk and recreating the mbr.
> >>>
> >>>I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend
.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
> >>>>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is
simple
> >>>>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
> >>>>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
> >>>>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
> >>>>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
> >>>>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
> >>>>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
> >>>>automated).
> >>>>
> >>>>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to
expound
> >>>>a little bit and offer examples.
> >>>>
> >>>>----
> >>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Wislu Plethora wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>message
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
> >>>>>
> >>>>>that my new
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>who like me, may
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>not
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>at least in my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>case,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>partitioned.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
> >>>>>
> >>>>>around' if the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>BIOS
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>however imperfectly,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>before you jump in?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
> >>>>>
> >>>>>External USB Storage
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>you can boot from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
> >>>>>
> >>>>>effort. Most of this is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
> >>>>>
> >>>>>your motherboard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>doesn't support this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>----
> >>>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>USB HDD bootable as
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>aide
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is WINXP Pro
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>formatted
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is housed an IBM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>DJSA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>230
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>year to store
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>backups
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
> >>>>>
> >>>>>(USB 2.0) and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>laptop
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(firewire).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>motherboard that allows
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>booting
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>enclosure bootable
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>ran
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>into complications.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>onto the external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>HDD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the boot order in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
> >>>>>
> >>>>>hung, although the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>DOS via a floppy and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
> >>>>>
> >>>>>primary partition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>fdisk
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>two SATA drives on my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the OS (Sys c
from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
> >>>>>
> >>>>>and found that I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>couldn't
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
> >>>>>
> >>>>>active and the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>external
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>to make the drive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>active
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Management). I changed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>boot
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The system again
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>hung
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>during the bootup as before.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>a MBR problem so I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>tried
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
> >>>>>
> >>>>>before I tried that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the first drive in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>my case drive 3) I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>either
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
> >>>>>
> >>>>>would make the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>external
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>By searching Google
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>will allow rewriting
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>mbr
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>available as freeware
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
> >>>>>
> >>>>>old copy of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>gdisk
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Google. I recreated
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>mbr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>external drive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>without
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>problems.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>used HDD. If a new
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>drive
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
> >>>>>
> >>>>>however when an old
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>drive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>is
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the mbr was the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>source
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>level of knowledge,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>make a previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>used
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the drive mbr will
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>required.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
> >>>>>
> >>>>>up as many
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>references
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>as I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>usb drive bootable
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>me gave problems,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Ed:
> >>>>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
> >>>>>
> >>>>>you cannot boot from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>don't come across
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>various web sites
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive as long as your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>that effect. I've
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>which contain a BIOS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>boot to a USB
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
> >>>>>
> >>>>>system. And I have yet
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>capability is actually
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>achievable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The following is from Western FAQs:
> >>>>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>(FireWire, USB, Combo)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>hard drive?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
> >>>>>
> >>>>>support for booting your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>who design PC
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is not currently
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>and here's their
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>response:
> >>>>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Support.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive that you have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>recognized in the boot
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>there is no
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
> >>>>>
> >>>>>currently. This
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
> >>>>>
> >>>>>computer technicians in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
> >>>>>
> >>>>>are not bootable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>internal hard drives to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>clone the external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
> >>>>>
> >>>>>circumstances the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>internal drive will be bootable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive or witnessed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Art
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
> >>>>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
> >>>>>lying?
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >