Question Breaker Trip

[lakto]

I have this problem when I play specifically Rust on my PC, a high CPU usage game, sometimes it causes my breaker to flip. Some nights I will go the entire night playing Rust and my breaker won't trip. Other times I'll just be logging on and my breaker will trip. Sometimes I'll even have my breaker trip 3 or 4 times back to back, until I just give up. I don't know what the problem could be, I don't know much about PCs but the only thing I could think of is it having to do something with my CPU because my breaker will only trip when I'm playing Rust.

I just don't have any idea why sometimes I can go hours without my breaker tripping and sometimes it happens as soon as I log onto a server. Also, this didn't happen before I upgraded my PC, I previously had a GTX 1060 3GB, i5 7400, and I can't recall what motherboard, but now I have Ryzen 5 3600, 2060 SUPER, and an ASUS Prime B550M-A (WiFi) motherboard. Also I tried switching to a different room within my house, but it still flipped the breaker for that room as well. I posted this on Reddit, but had no luck fixing my issue.

I have had my 2nd monitor unplugged for a while now, and when I tried to turn my pc on my monitor said no signal, so I plugged in my other monitor hoping HDMI would work, and when I started my PC with both of my monitors plugged in, I got to log into my computer then my breaker tripped. So I tried again, and while my PC was booting up, my breaker tripped again. So I unplugged my 2nd monitor from the surge protector and from my GPU, and I started my PC up and it didn't trip the breaker. This is the first time my breaker has tripped when not being on Rust. Keep in mind that my breaker still trips even when using just one monitor while playing Rust.

 

[Darkbreeze]

FULL hardware specifications including EXACT PSU model and how long that unit has been in service?

Additionally, I would try to locate an outlet that is on a DIFFERENT breaker in the breaker panel, and see if it still trips. It may just be that you have a bad breaker. Yes, breakers "go bad" from repeatedly having been tripped, surges or age. It's also possible that somebody has previously replaced a higher amperage breaker with a lower amperage one if there was a problem. It happens from time to time especially if they had a constantly tripping breaker and had one on hand that was a reduced rating.

 

[lakto]

I currently have Ryzen 5 3600, 2060 SUPER, ASUS Prime B550M-A (WiFi), 16 GB DDR4 3200 MHz Ram, 1TB SATA 7200RPM, 250GB SSD, and a 500W PSU. I don't know the exact brand but if you search up "HP Omen 870-224" that is the prebuilt my brother bought my maybe 3 or 4 years back, I have upgraded pretty much everything except the PSU. I already tried switching to a different room on a different circuit, the breaker still tripped in that room too. I tried switching to a different surge protector, although it was the same brand and breaker still tripping. Also, we were the first to own this house, and it isn't very old so I doubt someone replaced the breaker with a lower amperage breaker.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, that helps. The problem is that usually the PSU will fail or shut down, or other performance issues will be evident, if something is wrong with the PSU, before the breaker will trip. Breaker usually only trips from a direct short or if there are several high amp draw items running on the same circuit.

It seems you are in luck though, because that HP unit DOES seem to use a standard ATX power supply, unlike a lot of HP and Dell prebuilt systems, so replacing it with a higher quality unit should be a fairly simple matter and that would probably be the first thing I'd look at doing since it's the most probable reason for the problems you are seeing. It's likely there is a problem internally and that one of the protections is not functioning correctly. That would be my guess, but obviously, it IS just a guess since we lack any concrete evidence. It could certainly be something else in the system as well, but if there IS another component, say, the motherboard, or a drive, or the graphics card, that is faulty and has either a direct short or is drawing too much current then the PSU SHOULD trigger it's protections and shut down. It shouldn't allow the problem to allow the breaker to trip.

So it seems pretty likely to either be ONLY the power supply, OR the power supply and something else.

 

[lakto]

Ok, thanks for the easily understandable information above, is there any PSU's you'd recommend as I don't know much about PC's. Also what wattage would you recommend too, because I've heard that you don't want too much wattage but also too little wattage is harming as well. And will any PSU work for me, do all PSU's just have like all the universal plugs and stuff necessary for PC's or would I have to search for a specific PSU that matches my components?

 

[Darkbreeze]

For that system you want something in the 550w range. This should help you with deciding on a unit.

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

This is probably the best bang for the buck option available right now.

PCPartPicker Part List

Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Total: $74.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-10-11 22:43 EDT-0400


But this would be a significantly better choice.

PCPartPicker Part List

Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $99.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-10-11 22:44 EDT-0400

 

[lakto]

Would a 50 wattage difference make that big of a difference? Or is it more about my current PSU having an issue with it and just needing a better replacement?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Chances are pretty good that given the cheap nature of the power supplies that come in most those OEM prebuilt systems, plus it's age, plus the issues you are having, that there IS something wrong with it. Also, if you think 50w is the only difference between a quality power supply and what came in that system, you really need to do some reading and educate yourself in this area. Not being snarky at all, I'm being realistic.

You should REALLY read these, if nothing else, to increase your understanding of the most important part of any computer system a little more than it was previously.

https://www.corsair.com/eu/es/blog/why-does-a-better-power-supply-mean-a-better-computer-experience

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?1036-The-quot-power-supply-FAQ-quot

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/low-cost-psu-pc-power-supply,2862.html

 

[lakto]

Ok man, thanks for all the advice! I will try to get my hands on a new PSU and install it soon enough, hopefully I will be able to give you some positive feedback in the near future! I will also do some reading as well to gain some knowledge, haha.

 

[Darkbreeze]

👍

 

[lakto]

👍

I just got my PSU all hooked up and I plugged in my second monitor and no issues, if it does happen again while playing Rust I'll be sure to let you know, but until then, thank you!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Sweet man.

 

[lakto]

Sweet man.

So, it just happened again twice in a row. I'm pretty sad because after upgrading my PSU, it never happened again, and then randomly, just all power cuts off. I don't know what it could be. I have no idea why it was fixed for a whole month then just randomly happens.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Try replacing the breaker switch in the box that is tripping. Those can go bad. Also, you might try replacing it with a SLIGHTLY higher amperage unit. If it currently has a 10 amp breaker for that circuit, try putting a 15 amp. If it has a 15 amp, put a 20. If it has a 20, put a 25 amp. You can get replacement breakers at most home centers but you will want to be careful and be sure to shut off the main breaker switch at the top of the box before you remove or install any breakers. Also, it's probably helpful to take the breaker with you to make certain you get the right type as there are several different styles (Square D, glass fuse, etc.) and type (Single pole, dual pole, etc.) plus also protection types (AHCI, GFCI, Standard, etc.) depending on who the breaker panel is made by and how old it is. If you are uncertain, then get a handyman or electrician to swap the breaker out.

You can turn off the main breaker switch at the top of the box, remove the breaker you need to replace, then turn the main breaker back on. You'll need to reset clocks, etc. of course. Most home centers and hardware stores carry a variety of replacement breaker panel switches and fuses.

 

[Paperdoc]

OUCH!!

I have to presume that the "Breaker" you are talking about is in the main electrical breaker panel for your house. Although it is possible the breaker itself is faulty, YOU should not consider replacing it in that panel unless you REALLY know what you are doing with house wiring. An untrained amateur can make a FATAL mistake inside that box! And doing it yourself just might be illegal and void your house fire insurance - depends on regulations where you live.

Beyond that, you should NEVER replace it with a breaker with a HIGHER rating!!! The breaker installed in the panel is rated according to the capacity of the wires installed in the wall for that circuit. Likewise the receptacle outlet mounted in the wall is rated for that capacity, and so are all the appliances you plug into that outlet. If you were to replace the breaker with a higher-rated one, that means all those wires in the wall and your appliances (and computer and monitor, etc.) will be allowed to pull MUCH more current than they can handle. This can result in high temperatures in the wiring leading to fires!!

In North America with 120 VAC power supply systems, almost all common branch circuits in a home are wired for either 15 A or 20 A max current, and the breaker installed for that circuit is the correct one for those wires. Other special circuits for electric clothes dryers or stoves have different breakers because they have very different wires connecting them AND they contain internal wiring suited to those higher current loads.

If you are in a pretty new house, there is a possibility it was wired with a new type of circuit protection device in the breaker panel. These have been on the market for well over a decade, and have become required by updated regulations for new construction in some jurisdictions. They are called Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters, or AFCI's. These are NOT the same as well-known GFCI's. Beyond common overcurrent load protection, they protect against an unusual type of electrical fault in which somehow the current flowing in the wires arcs over to another wire or to ground. Even a short arc causes brief heavy current flow that is detected and trips the AFCI. However, there are some people who say these devices seem to be too sensitive and trip when there is no real arc fault, causing aggravation to users. Unless you know what to look for in the panel, you may not recognize these devices if you have them. You might need to ask an electrician about that. And they are very unlikely to be present in an older home.

A breaker that trips constantly usually (unless the breaker itself is faulty) means there IS a recurring overcurrent situation, and that means you NEED to find the cause and fix that. If it is as simple as the computer system you are using is sharing a circuit with some other devices elsewhere in the house that add to the total load on that circuit, then re-arranging where you plug in what can solve it. But if there is little else on that circuit, you need to find for sure whether your computer equipment is either using lots of current, or has an intermittent flaw causing brief short circuits.

 

[lakto]

I'm a bit stuck here, because Darkbreeze said to try changing the breaker switch with a higher amp, but Paperdoc said to never replace it with a breaker with a higher rating, are y'all both referring to the same thing? Also, while I have no idea what AFCI's, GFCI's and everything else you guys are referring to, I'm still wondering if it could be an amp problem, because I did switch to a completely different room in my house, and I had the same outcome, and they aren't on the same breaker switch. Also, this problem never occurred before upgrading my PC component's so I'm wondering if maybe I installed the thermal paste wrong, or the motherboard is touching something that it isn't supposed to be? If you guys do still think that it's something with my breaker or wiring, I will try asking a local electrician for help or to take a look, if possible.

The current case for my PC is honestly so bad, and I don't even have a back panel to hide all my wires, also the side panel that I do have for it is completely off because I don't want to just force my wires into my case and possibly hit my GPU or CPU fans, and my SSD isn't even mounted in my case, it's just connected to a SATA cable and sitting in my case. I'm saying this because do you guys think that getting a new case and mounting everything properly could possibly fix the issue in anyway?

Thanks for the help before hand.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Sorry Paperdoc, but, while I agree with you that there are dangers involved, it's a fairly simple task to replace a breaker in a modern panel and I don't see it being the danger you are making it out to be. I know dozens, or more, homeowners that have had to change out breakers due to age and so far as I know nobody has died or ended up with french fried hair yet so long as they have ensured that the main breaker is shut off. If it is, then there is really zero danger involved unless you go touching some point on the circuit prior to the breaker itself.

And, as far as changing it with a higher amp, changing the amperage of the breaker by 5 amps isn't going to cause any problems because for one thing these, well, hold on, let's do it like this.

In my experience, and this refers back to the first statement here and something I said earlier in this thread, but a lot of landlords and home owners DO change their own breakers and I've encountered at least ten or fifteen occasions where somebody has replaced the breaker with a LOWER amperage breaker, and then here I come because somebody has a problem with a constantly tripping breaker so it turns out that it was a created problem because they probably just slapped a lower amperage breaker they happened to have on hand in there so they didn't have to pay for one, or they swapped a breaker from a different place in the panel just to test it out and then never actually replaced the breaker, just left it where it was swapped to. Any number of reasons why this might happen and all I am saying is that it is worth checking.

Yes, there are dangers anytime you get inside the breaker panel, but you know what, there are dangers any time you plug something into the wall for that matter. If you use a good helping of common sense and do a little research when you know it is something you don't have experience with, you can practically reduce the risk to nil.

All of which is a moot point now though because he said he moved the system to another circuit, on a completely different breaker, and it still tripped it. That means it's not the breaker being bad, and it's not a problem of an under rated breaker. So at this point, you shouldn't bother with the breaker panel at all because it's very unlikely that's where the problem is.

At this point, I'd highly recommend that you remove the motherboard from the case, read the following guide, and bench test the motherboard using the instructions in the guide. Pay attention to things like the standoffs. If there are any installed that don't line up directly with the mounting holes in the motherboard, then they shouldn't be there and are probably shorting out the back of the motherboard.

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

Also, if you have just a bunch of crap jammed in there every which way because there really isn't room, then you probably need to sort that problem out before going any further. If that means getting an appropriate case, then do that. Whatever you need to do to do it right. You can't put stuff together in a way that you know isn't right and expect to get a good result or not have problems.

 

[Paperdoc]

Darkbreeze, you are right that someone who does know the basics of house wiring and breaker panels CAN do such a job safely. Fifty years ago while I was a a grad student in Physical Chemistry we bought our first house, and I replaced all the wiring in it. First I got a basic free booklet from the electrical authority office, and then I bought the full National Electrical Code book and read much of it. By then I could discern what was pertinent to my needs (about 20% of it at most) and ignore the rest. In our area at that time you did not need a tradesman license to do this work for yourself, but you did need to get a Permit after submitting plans, and to have it inspected by the proper Inspectors and approved before it was connected to power. So I learned from the books and by doing it, and I have done such work on many occasions since. My concern is that someone who does NOT take the time to find out what and where the hazards are, and how to work safely, may make a mistake in their ignorance.

Regarding size (amperage rating) of the breaker, if you understand the system and have done some work like this, you can see quickly what gauge of wiring has been used for the circuit in question. 15A circuits normally have 14 GA wires, and 20 A circuits have 12 GA wires. It is never a good idea to install a breaker rated higher than the wiring of the circuit you are feeding. And I can agree that, IF a circuit has a breaker that is rated too low, replacing it with the proper one is a good idea.

By the way, an important part of this is the ratings of the wiring inside the device you plug into the wall outlet. The device itself is protected from overload of its own components by the breaker rating for that circuit. That is why wall outlet fixtures come with many different prong configurations. That system prevents you from plugging a common item rated for a max 15 A consumption into an outlet providing up to 30 A; likewise, if you have a heavy-use device that needs 30 A, you will certainly have to provide a wall outlet fixture to accept such a plug, and one really hopes that, in doing that, you take into consideration the rating of the WIRE in the wall! Over-sizing the breaker at the panel without matching that to the whole circuit and the device you connect can defeat all that protection system.

Focusing back on OP's situation, I do agree that the problem is more likely to be in his computer, than in the breakers. There is one small other possibility. When he switched to another set of outlets and still had that problem, that other circuit might ALSO have had significant other loads on it already - especially if this is an older house with a lower-capacity system that now is heavily loaded by modern common uses. For example, we just had a small house my mother-in-law had upgraded because she had a 60 A feed system and almost no 3-wire (Hot / Neutral / Ground) circuits with 3-prong outlets. She had to be careful about running the washing machine in the back room and NOT trying to use the toaster in the kitchen at the same time. That house now has 100 A service with a few extra outlets installed.

Anyway, OP describes a system with lots of potential for unseen problems that may well be intermittent. That will take some detective work to figure out. You've given a couple of good ideas, like checking the stand-offs (those don't usually cause breaker trips, but maybe) and moving things out of the case into a "breadboard" temporary assembly to investigate. And a new case might be a good opportunity to get things neatly organized and eliminate unseen problems. OP, if you do not get an electrician or someone with good knowledge of this stuff to help you, consider also another tool. You can buy a device called a Kill-A-Watt, which is a box you connect between the wall outlet and your computer system. It tells you the actual power in Watts being used. That can tell you whether your computer load really is unusually high, AND whether it climbs up just before the breaker trips. If the load is NOT really high, and if you can ensure that there are not other loads on that same breaker circuit, and you still DO get those trips, then you will know that there really is a significant electrical failure happening intermittently in your computer. That can help you narrow down the search.

 

[Darkbreeze]

My concern is that someone who does NOT take the time to find out what and where the hazards are, and how to work safely, may make a mistake in their ignorance.

It is never a good idea to install a breaker rated higher than the wiring of the circuit you are feeding.

I agree 100% with this, and I usually state something to the effect that if you're not willing to take a half hour to research and learn exactly how to change a breaker safely, or check the circuit for probable amp/gauge, then don't bother, as you'll likely end up hurting or killing yourself, but obviously failed to do that in this thread, so right on for calling it on the safety side of things.

Obviously though, a moot point since as indicated, clearly it's not the breaker.

 

[Darkbreeze]

And aside from a Kill A Watt, another good device to have, simply to ensure that something isn't wired wrong to begin with which I've seen countless times when going in to remodel or otherwise work on some problematic circuit, is one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-T...&keywords=outlet+tester&qid=1605675494&sr=8-4

 

[Paperdoc]

Agreed - a circuit checker like that for outlets is really useful. It is especially useful in older homes where someone may have "updated" part of the system and made a mistake that is not obvious. For example, in an older wiring system with no Ground lines, often the Hot and Neutral wires are NOT clearly identified by colour and it's easy to reverse them and get a new outlet wired backwards! I have seen pros use one of these checkers on every outlet as a final test to make sure they made no errors.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Agreed - a circuit checker like that for outlets is really useful. It is especially useful in older homes where someone may have "updated" part of the system and made a mistake that is not obvious. For example, in an older wiring system with no Ground lines, often the Hot and Neutral wires are NOT clearly identified by colour and it's easy to reverse them and get a new outlet wired backwards! I have seen pros use one of these checkers on every outlet as a final test to make sure they made no errors.

Exactly. I have several and the first thing I do when I approach a new circuit that is suspect is use that to see right off the bat if something is obviously not right or is reversed. As you say, many homeowners or landlords have "dun fixed it" themselves and I've seen anything from reversed hot and neutral, to no grounds, to even dual hots and no neutral or any number of fubared connections especially in boxes that may have MANY outlets AND switches.