Bribery (not the card)

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Folks,

What's the correct message on bribery?

Clearly it's heavily discouraged through the likes of:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=e7a60ef76892c384b8cd931dd5ea0ab2&threadid=251555
and the fact that there are people suspended from MTG for bribery, as
listed on
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/suspended

At the same time, bribery (or at least thrown matches) seems to be
widely accepted . Take, for example, this morning's article posted on
wizards;
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ash20
in which Alex unabashadly writes:
In thirteenth round I got paired up to Dave Humpherys,
who had a better record than me. I asked if he would
concede the match so that both of us could make top 8,
but he was not 100% sure he'd be able to get a draw in
the following round and we had to play.

So, my questions to you are:
Where to you draw the line?
Where does the DCI want us to draw the line?
What sort of offers would you feel comfortable or not making?
What would cause you to report a player for asking to throw a match?

Thanks,
-Trevor.

 

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kentstr04@yahoo.com (TJB) writes:
> Folks,
>
> What's the correct message on bribery?

Bribery is bad.

> Clearly it's heavily discouraged [...] and the fact that there are
> people suspended from MTG for bribery
>
> At the same time, bribery (or at least thrown matches) seems to be
> widely accepted .

That doesn't make it right.

> Take, for example, this morning's article posted on wizards;
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ash20 in which
> Alex unabashadly writes: In thirteenth round I got paired up to Dave
> Humpherys, who had a better record than me. I asked if he would
> concede the match so that both of us could make top 8, but he was
> not 100% sure he'd be able to get a draw in the following round and
> we had to play.

That isn't bribery, that's just asking for a favor. Bribery is
offering *something* (packs, money, etc...) in exchange for a
concession, draw, or drop. Alex here was just asking for a favor, and
was not offering anything in exchange. If he had said "I'll give you
$50 to concede to me", then he would have been disqualified for
bribery. But not for this.

> So, my questions to you are:
> Where to you draw the line?

At offering something in exchange for the concession or draw. (With
the exception that people in the *finals* of a *single-elimination*
tournament may split *the prize that the two would get* (and no more)
in exchange for one to *drop* (and not exchange ratings points).)

> Where does the DCI want us to draw the line?

Their penalty guidelines are quite clear on it, actually.

> What sort of offers would you feel comfortable or not making?

Comfortable (in that I know I'm allowed to do it):
Offering a draw.
Offering to concede (if it would help them and not hurt me, or if it
was a personal friend).
Asking for a concession (if it would help me and not hurt them, or if
it was a personal friend).
Doing a prize split in the finals of a single-elimination tourney.

As long as there's nothing changing hands in exchange, it's all okay.

> What would cause you to report a player for asking to throw a match?

If they violated the rules for doing so.

--
Peter C.
"This specification allows any of these approaches. Solving the
Halting Problem is considered extra credit."
-- RFC 3028, "Sieve: A Mail Filtering Language"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

TJB wrote:
> Folks,
>
> What's the correct message on bribery?
>
> Clearly it's heavily discouraged through the likes of:
> http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=e7a60ef76892c384b8cd931dd5ea0ab2&threadid=251555
> and the fact that there are people suspended from MTG for bribery, as
> listed on
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/suspended
>
> At the same time, bribery (or at least thrown matches) seems to be
> widely accepted . Take, for example, this morning's article posted on
> wizards;
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ash20
> in which Alex unabashadly writes:
> In thirteenth round I got paired up to Dave Humpherys,
> who had a better record than me. I asked if he would
> concede the match so that both of us could make top 8,
> but he was not 100% sure he'd be able to get a draw in
> the following round and we had to play.

That's not Bribery. That's asking someone to concede. If he had said,
"Concede, and I'll give you x and y (of z)", then it would be. But
instead he said "*Please* concede, to give me as good a chance as you."

> So, my questions to you are:
> Where to you draw the line?

At Bribery.

> Where does the DCI want us to draw the line?

At Bribery

> What sort of offers would you feel comfortable or not making?

I feel comfertable in offering draws. Espieccally if it has no bearing
on winning. I, personally, want to play and win. If I play and loose I
can learn more though than simply offering a draw. This is why if I
offer a draw, After signing the slip I ask if they want a game any way.

> What would cause you to report a player for asking to throw a match?

Something along the lines of "Could you concede? If you do, I'll give
you a £xxx($xxx)"

etc

> Thanks,
> -Trevor.


--
From the mind of Andrew Kicks
--A heartless man,
he lives by beating his own cheast.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2004 07:40:12 -0700, TJB <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Folks,
>
>What's the correct message on bribery?

Not Allowed. Section 161 in the Penalty Guidelines deals with "Cheating -
Bribery", which also includes trying to determine the outcome of a game
through random methods not specified in the game, such as flipping a coin
to see who concedes to whom. Summary: "All levels - DQ without prize".
(And then the Head Judge has to fill out the DQ forms and send them in, so
that this goes on the player's permanent DCI record.)

>widely accepted . Take, for example, this morning's article posted on
>wizards;
>http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ash20
>in which Alex unabashadly writes:
> In thirteenth round I got paired up to Dave Humpherys,
> who had a better record than me. I asked if he would
> concede the match so that both of us could make top 8,
> but he was not 100% sure he'd be able to get a draw in
> the following round and we had to play.

That's not bribery. The key here? He didn't -offer- him anything to concede
- no packs, no money, no vacation in Aruba. He simply asked him if he _would_
concede to allow both of them to make top 8. (The standings, if posted, are
common knowledge...)

>So, my questions to you are:
>Where to you draw the line?
>Where does the DCI want us to draw the line?

These have the same answer. Asking someone if they want to concede is perfectly
legal. Asking someone if they want to concede _in exchange for something_
is perfectly _illegal_. This includes "if you concede to me and I win, I'll
give you five packs out of the prize", by the way. Splitting your prize with
others is perfectly fine on its own ... but _changing the outcomes of
matches_ depending on this is Bad.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.