Question Broken High Ryzen 3700x Temps

[MCMunroe]

I just upgraded my Ryzen System. I have had all three generation on the same system board and case and fans.
Node 202 SFF
Gigabyte B350 Wifi
Noctua LP color with Stock Ryzen fan (it touches the top vent to the outside sucking in cool air and is larger than Noctuua)
Ryzen R7 1700
Ryzen R7 2700
Ryzen R7 3700x... all 65W parts.

Running H265 video encoding the 2700 on this set up stock settings averaged 127F all day with a quite fan.
Upgraded to the 3700x (after all updates) and as soon as I video encode it shoots up to 202F and stays there. NOT ACCEPTABLE. Reviews all say Ryzen 3000 needs better cooling, but if they are claiming both are 65W parts, they should cool similarly with same cooling set ups! This new chip idles hotter than the previous one does at 100% load. Not why I got the 65W part!
Just like to add: The exhaust air coming off of the 2700 was warmer than the exhaust coming off of the 3700x.

Yes, I checked the thermal paste, and rebuilt three times to no change in stock temps. Also at idle the fans are 48db, With 2700 installed, I couldn't hear them. These I hear across the house.

I checked the fan curves, both CPU and Case Fans are set to run at 100% above 60C.

These temps are not with in a small "differences in 65W CPUs", this is wrong for any CPU or any case that is running stock.

 

[rgd1101]

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-3700x
95C is 203F

 

[Tndo]

Mabye update bios. That fixed my 3rd gen ryzen temps

 

[MCMunroe]

rgd1101
I am sorry, just quoting the max allowed temp doesn't cut it. If all the CPUs are 65W TDP, they should cool simuarly on same cooling system. If not OEMs could not build systems around said chips.

The Noctua cooler does better than AMD stock cooler in the reviews I found.

The 3700x with stock cooler does not shoot up to 95 C and stay there on load with the stock cooler in the reviews I found that actaully use the stock cooler (instead of a 360MM AIO on max fan, like most).

Tndo
I have the most up to date BIOS for my board F42b.

 

[CountMike]

rgd1101
I am sorry, just quoting the max allowed temp doesn't cut it. If all the CPUs are 65W TDP, they should cool simuarly on same cooling system. If not OEMs could not build systems around said chips.

The Noctua cooler does better than AMD stock cooler in the reviews I found.

The 3700x with stock cooler does not shoot up to 95 C and stay there on load with the stock cooler in the reviews I found that actaully use the stock cooler (instead of a 360MM AIO on max fan, like most).

Tndo
I have the most up to date BIOS for my board F42b.

What about voltages under such load ? Many BIOS versions push them too high, even 1.5v +.

 

[rgd1101]

TDP is not the same as temperature .
and it depend on your case cooling, room temp too.

 

[rgd1101]

rgd1101
I am sorry, just quoting the max allowed temp doesn't cut it. If all the CPUs are 65W TDP, they should cool simuarly on same cooling system. If not OEMs could not build systems around said chips.

The Noctua cooler does better than AMD stock cooler in the reviews I found.

The 3700x with stock cooler does not shoot up to 95 C and stay there on load with the stock cooler in the reviews I found that actaully use the stock cooler (instead of a 360MM AIO on max fan, like most).

Tndo
I have the most up to date BIOS for my board F42b.

Look to me you did something wrong on your install. try redoing it?

 

[drea.drechsler]

Low profile cooler in a tight SFF case... and did you say the top of the fan is nearly touching the case cover? So that sounds like it could be restricting airflow by obstructing the airflow patterns around blade tips. How does it perform with the covers off?

And how did you attach the Ryzen stock fan to a Noctua L9 cooler? Sounds like a bit of a Frankenstein thing going on there. Have you checked performance with Noctua's fan installed for comparison? I've heard Noctua makes a pretty good fan so I'd give 'em a try if I bought it.

 

[MCMunroe]

Did you guys see what temps I was getting with the exact same set up on the R7 2700 CPU, that is all that I changed. I updated the BIOS to allow for 3000 and ran it stock.

Before allowing the CPU fan to gulp cool air, it would just recirculate hot air in the case. This set up has the cowling of the fan against the top vents on the case, the actual fan is about half an inch lower. This sucks in cool air over the heatsink, over the VRMs and then out the case. I checked with smoke, and as I mentioned much better temps with this mod and before the CPU upgrade.

I remouted and pasted 3 times with exact same result. I will run it open case with Stock fan the 3700x comes with soon and report.

Windows Ryzen Balanced Power Plan. Stock, voltages never exceed 1.50v (which I still think is unnecessary but stock)

I got it to run at 170F by restricting the Package wattage to 35W, but that makes it run slower than base clocks of the R7 2700.

 

[MCMunroe]

So my question, incase it got lost is:
Does the R7 3700x produce similar heat as the R7 2700, or not?

This is what is hard to find, other than the image from the Hardware Unboxed review that I found. So many reviewers don't run stock to give real numbers.

 

[rgd1101]

Does the R7 3700x produce similar heat as the R7 2700, or not?

nope.
there are many review out there

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-3700x/19.html

 

[MCMunroe]

Thank you rgd1101,
Well, if I was getting any where near 150F (66C) stock while encoding, I would be happy. My goal is under 170F for sustained loads with reasonable fans.
All my computers from tower (8700k), to SFF (3700x) to 1 Liter (Alpha), to laptop (m15) are all tuned in such a way.
When I find time this week, I will rebuild and try: open case, Ryzen Cooler, and Noctua Cooler, and then turn the CPU back up to stock settings.

 

[InvalidError]

One thing you may want to keep in mind is that AMD significantly increased AVX throughput between Zen/Zen+ and Zen 2. For things that make heavy use of those instructions, it would make sense for power draw to see a significant bump to go along the increased AVX throughput.

 

[Karadjgne]

TDP is thermal design power. It's the amount of power averaged by the cpu under a specific series of apps. At base speeds, not boost and no hyperthreading. So while Zen 2 is more efficiently using the power, it's also still working considerably harder overall when you go from a nominal load at base clocks to high encoding loads with high thread counts. Harder the cpu works, hotter it gets, regardless of input power used.

1.5v is high. There's something in bios you missed. At idle you shouldn't be seeing voltages jump over @ 1.4v and sustained loads should be a lot closer to @ 1.35v.

At 1.5v you are punishing the VRM's and the cpu both, on a low-mid range mobo and thats not doing anyone any good.

I've not seen Ryzen Master mentioned yet.

 

[MCMunroe]

Karadjgne
I am not over clocking in BIOS or Ryzen Master. The behavior is all Ryzen and AMD.s

 

[MCMunroe]

As promised, I checked the all the variables with the cooling and fans.

Test after 2 minute H265 Software Encode
Air Conditioned Room 70F, vent blowing on case.

Configuration	CPU	Max Temp	Sustained Average	CINEBENCH R15
Ryzen 1700 Fan + Noctua Sink, Open Case	Stock	201F	194F
Ryzen 1700 Fan + Noctua Sink, Closed Case	Stock	217F	200F
Noctua Fan + Sink, Open Case	Stock	213F	201F
Noctua Fan + Sink, Close Case	Stock	219F	203F
Ryzen 3700x Fan + Sink, Open Case	Stock	187F	180F	2066
Ryzen 3700x Fan + Sink, Open Case	PPT 65W	186F	169F	2031

This is how my Computer has been set up for the past 3 Ryzen Generations, CPU fan suck in cool outside air, there are two 120mm case fans bottom rear, and the hot air exhausts out the top. All intakes have filters.

(Screens of Ryzen Master in links)
Ryzen 1700 Fan + Noctua Sink, Closed Case

Ryzen 1700 Fan + Noctua Sink, Open Case

Noctua Fan + Sink, Open Case

Yes, I know how to paste

Ryzen 3700x Fan + Sink, Open Case

(Doesn't fit in the case by a full inch)

So, yes, using the included fan does provide reasonable temperatures but, the 3700x does not cool as a 65W part, which is the point of listing TDPs is for cooling solution match ups. OEMs could not put a 3700x chip in a SFF case made for 65W TDP parts.

Restricting the CPU to 65W in Ryzen Master improves temps further while hardly hurting benchmark performance.

Looks like I will have to cut a hole in the case to fit the fan.

 

[DMAN999]

It looks to me like it's an issue with your cooler/case setup.
My 3700x idles at 30-32c and maxes out at 60-62c (room temp of 72F / 22c) after hours of gaming or encoding while streaming to 2 1080p TV's simultaneously.
These temps are from Ryzen Master.
At Idle:

https://imgur.com/L19lAZY

View: https://imgur.com/L19lAZY


I had a Ryzen 2600 (OC'd to 4 GHz) in this exact same rig before I upgraded to the 3700x and it idled at 28-30c and maxed out at 55-56c.
So the 3700x runs slightly hotter but it isn't that much of a difference.
See my signature for my full specs.

 

[coolcole01]

For mine when i was using the stock fan unless i had the case fan on the side on the temps went through the roof. As soon as i got air goning across the vrms it dramatically improved. Heres hoping for you . Also running my voltage at just under 1.39 really seem to stop dramatic rises over 75.

 

[Karadjgne]

98.3°C is hot. Seriously hot. And Ryzen Master reporting voltages of 1.3114v which is good.

I'd try an experiment. Take that Noctua fan and turn it upside down. Use it as pull config with a direct exhaust pointing out of the case. That'll draw more air from the surrounding areas of the mobo, which come from the intakes instead of pushing hot air into the case as it is now. Could even fashion a shroud to make sure that air from the fan goes out, not back in.

Your primary concern is airflow in that case, so everything above about halfway up should be exhaust. Not intake.

TDP is misleading. Its the power used, averaged from a set series of apps, by the cpu at base clocks with no hyperthreading or boost.

You can fully expect any cpu to hit 1.5-2x TDP in heat output at max value. With a 3700x, expect @ 130w worth of heat hitting the cooler, with fully loaded threads. Using low profile coolers isn't going to help much as they have such low wattage ratings. They weren't designed to effectively handle an 8/16 beast of a cpu. 65w TDP or not.