• Now's your chance win big! Join our community and get entered to win a RTX 2060 GPU, plus more! Join here.

    Pi Cast Episode 3 streams live on Tuesday, August 4th at 2:30 pm ET (7:30 PM BST). Watch live right here!

    Catch Scharon on the Tom's Hardware Show live on Thursday, August 6th at 2:00 pm ET (7:00 PM BST). Click here!

Question BSOD/freezes or App crashing occur when playing game

May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
Hello everyone,

I read other threads related to the similar issue I am having, but unsuccessfully.

I built my own PC a few years ago for the first time, and it works fine unless I play a game (and the only game I play is The Sims 4).

Almost each and every time I play, I either experience (in order of frequency):

  • PC freezing, to the point that I have to manually reboot
  • BSOD but not always the same one and, checking WhoCrashed, mostly "ntoskrnl.exe" related
  • AppCrash (i.e. the game itself crashes)
This is my PC config:

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
BIOS: 12/04/15 20:19:28 Ver: 04.06.05 (type: BIOS)
Processor: AMD FX-8320E Eight-Core Processor (8 CPUs), ~3.2GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM DDR3 (dual channel)
Available OS Memory: 16338MB RAM
Page File: 3369MB used, 15906MB available
Motherboard: ASRock 970A-G/3.1
VideoCard name: 2048 MBATI AMD Radeon R7 360 Series (Sapphire/PCPartner)
HDD: 465GB Seagate ST3500413AS ATA Device (SATA)
931GB Western Digital WD Elements 1042 USB Device (USB (SATA)
Audio: Realtek High Definition Audio
PSU: Thermaltake 530W modular

For the record, I don't have 3rd party antivirus

And this what I already tried to find a solution:

  • sfc /scannow: no integrity violations
  • chkdsk: no errors
  • DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth
  • Windows clean boot
  • Checked RAMs, with both Windows diagnostic tool and MemTest86, and both didn't show any error
  • Updated Windows (Windows updates are always enabled by the way)
  • Updated GPU drivers
  • Uninstalled GPU driver with DDU.exe and reinstalled. It was even worse, hence I uninstall it again with DDU.exe
  • Checked both Reliability Monitor and Event Viewer. When the PC freezes, Reliability Monitor doesn't show anything helpful, while the Event Viewer shows the error ID 6008 "The previous system shutdown at __ on ‎__ was unexpected " 30/40 minutes before the freeze occurs, but at the same time of the error I am still actually playing.
Other attemps I made, game related: repaired the game, updated the game, removed and replaced the Mods folder by folder, played in a clean user data folder. But I honestly don't think the game is the original cause of the issue by now.

This is the link to the last 5 minidumps: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ToDnE9-kc2m2eZRFuBoSCESpZHMRTkAe

The only thing I have yet to try is a BIOS update, because it scares me and because I am using my PC for working remotely, hence I am afraid that if something bad happens I have no other way to work (my country is in lockdown due to COVID-19).

I also started to think that maybe could be my PSU? But just because I am running out of ideas.

Thanks so much in advance for any help provided.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
whocrashed blames 90% of errors on ntoskrnl. It is what crashed... it just doesn't tell you anything. NTOSKRNL = windows kernel. It handles all driver requests, power management, and memory management. It sits between Hardware and Applications. It got blamed but its not the cause

PC freezing, to the point that I have to manually reboot
that isn't a windows crash.

I will ask a friend to check the dump files but he is asleep now so it won't be right away.

You could run hwinfo64 in the background while you game to check what the sensors on motherboard record - https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/hwinfo64-download.html
when you run it, click the Sensors only tick box and click run
in the next window, along bottom of the app are icons
You want to click the loggin start button, its the one to the right of the clock.
It takes you to file explorer where you can choose a file name/location for the log file.
You would need to start this each time.
The output is a CSV file which can be read in excel or Google docs.

If you want, send me results and I see what I can find. Handy if you crash while its running
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
If you want, send me results and I see what I can find. Handy if you crash while its running
First of all, thank you so much for your reply.

I followed your suggestion and run hwinfo64 while I was playing: and I experienced an AppCrash (this is the CSV log file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DKfFZBsx4zTFosVYUtjdjzrflGZvP9dT )

According to both Reliability Monitor and Event Viewer, this is what caused the crash this time (but in the past it was different):

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: TS4_x64.exe
Application Version: 1.62.67.1020
Application Timestamp: 5e798db8
Fault Module Name: d3d9.dll
Fault Module Version: 10.0.18362.387
Fault Module Timestamp: c808fce5
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 0000000000024834
OS Version: 10.0.18363.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1040
Additional Information 1: 3c6b
Additional Information 2: 3c6b766db41f3810d48fd47479c89294
Additional Information 3: 2bab
Additional Information 4: 2bab58cd5aa34d1f1227a2ebc3896f6d
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
Hi, I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://anaemicainudog.htmlpasta.com/
File information:050120-45906-01.dmp (May 1 2020 - 06:40:11)
Bugcheck:KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (1E)
Probably caused by:ntkrnlmp.exe (Process: TS4_x64.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 53 Min(s), and 28 Sec(s)

File information:042820-55390-01.dmp (Apr 28 2020 - 09:00:19)
Bugcheck:DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (D1)
Driver warnings:*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for atikmdag.sys
Probably caused by:atikmdag.sys (Process: TS4_x64.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 1 Hour(s), 01 Min(s), and 27 Sec(s)

File information:042720-60875-01.dmp (Apr 27 2020 - 11:09:44)
Bugcheck:ATTEMPTED_EXECUTE_OF_NOEXECUTE_MEMORY (FC)
Driver warnings:*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for atikmdag.sys
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: TS4_x64.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 50 Min(s), and 08 Sec(s)

File information:042720-58906-01.dmp (Apr 27 2020 - 07:28:32)
Bugcheck:SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3B)
Driver warnings:
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: TS4_x64.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 1 Hour(s), 35 Min(s), and 33 Sec(s)

File information:042920-110625-01.dmp (Apr 29 2020 - 11:41:14)
Bugcheck:THREAD_STUCK_IN_DEVICE_DRIVER (EA)
Driver warnings:*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for atikmdag.sys
Probably caused by:dxgkrnl.sys (Process: System)
Uptime:1 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 04 Min(s), and 01 Sec(s)
Possible Motherboard page: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970A-G3.1/
There is a BIOS update available for your system. You have version 1.1 installed and the latest is version 1.2. Wait for additional information before deciding to update or not. Important: Verify that I have linked to the correct motherboard. Updating your BIOS can be risky. Never try it when you might lose power (lightning storms, recent power outages, etc).

This information can be used by others to help you. I can't help you with this. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
even if i couldn't see the AMD display driver named in the error, Thread stuck in Device driver error is one error I only see with AMD cards, so I would have guessed.

3 out of 5 mention AMD display drivers. All while running Sims 4

have you tried running windows update after ddu and see what the drivers MS have from AMD are like?

Freezing makes me wonder if its the PSU.. it could also be the card.
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
have you tried running windows update after ddu and see what the drivers MS have from AMD are like?

Freezing makes me wonder if its the PSU.. it could also be the card.
Thanks a lot for your replies, @gardenman and @Colif .

Yes, I run Windows Update after DDU.exe and it installed "the most recent available" which was dated February 2020 (but there is a March and even an April update on the AMD website).

I think whatever the occurrence, it is still due to the same (unknown) cause, and yes it's completely random: sometime it just freezes, sometimes a BSOD shows up and sometimes the game crashes. But everything still happens when I am playing.

I've been thinking to PSU for awhile... maybe is it not enough? But in any case, I have no chance to test other PSUs.

Is updating the BIOS my only chance? I never did it because I know it could cause issues, and since I am working remotely due to COVID-19, I need a working PC at the moment. Could BIOS update from Windows be a solution?
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
MIcrosoft only update their drivers when AMD/Nvidia supply them with a driver for signing. And MS generally test the drivers before release so that they work with a majority of Win 10 PC. So yes, there will always be newer drivers on the makers website.

If you look on website for motherboard, there is only 1 bios. Its likely you have a pre release one but as it has worked up until now, I doubt the update will help.

Do you play any other games? It seems specific and I wouldn't think the Sims 4 would stress the PC that much for it be only thing that would show a PSU out as being weak.

Wattage isn't best way to rate a PSU, many cheap PSU can say that do X Watts but can't, or fail if you try. I am no expert on which brands are better but from what I can find, yours isn't that good. You be better off with something made by Seasonic, they normally don't have bad PSU.
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
The Sims 4 is the only game I play, but I will try some other game just to check how the PC performs, and I will let you know.

Wattage isn't best way to rate a PSU, many cheap PSU can say that do X Watts but can't, or fail if you try. I am no expert on which brands are better but from what I can find, yours isn't that good. You be better off with something made by Seasonic, they normally don't have bad PSU.
This is my suspicion as well. At this point, what should I look in case I need to change my PSU?
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
This is my suspicion as well. At this point, what should I look in case I need to change my PSU?
I feel a word is missing here? At? For?
normal signs if its PSU is the screen turns off or USB stop working in games, as that can be a sign you aren't getting the power you need.

looking at your CSV file, there are no power recordings showing. None I was expecting anyway. I can't see a 12 volt rail or 5 volt.
 
Last edited:
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
Yes, you're right, I skipped a word! :D I meant "look at".

normal signs if its PSU is the screen turns off or USB stop working in games, as that can be a sign you aren't getting the power you need.
I just tried to play to another game (Universims) and after awhile I experienced a BSOD. This is the dump file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1A0Q2_eiVn8HZgy2LENUpR1hJp7jY0jVU

For the record, when the BSOD occured, the only other software working was Google Chrome.
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump file through the debugger and got the following information: https://poachiestbordercollie.htmlpasta.com/

File information:050520-77234-01.dmp (May 5 2020 - 12:39:51)
Bugcheck:IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (A)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: The Universim.)
Uptime:1 Day(s), 4 Hour(s), 21 Min(s), and 45 Sec(s)

This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
I don't think i can tell from that BSOD if its PSU or not. TBH, I don't know of any BSOD that points direct at PSU so there is that. IRQ errors are mostly drivers or ram. I think I need an NT manual that shows what all the commands mean, I can guess that isn't free.

given any drivers older than June 2015 isn't a win 10 driver, and you have this many it could be one of these

Date Driver Description
Feb 12 2009 rsdrvx64.sys RawDisk driver (EldoS) http://www.eldos.com/
Jun 15 2009 pwdrvio.sys MiniTool Partition Wizard https://www.partitionwizard.com/
Jul 23 2009 WsAudioDevice_383S(1).sys Wondershare Virtual Audio Device driver (Wondershare Software Co., Ltd.)
Feb 18 2010 amdiox64.sys AMD IO driver
Dec 04 2012 amdide64.sys AMD SATA Controller driver http://support.amd.com/
Dec 29 2012 speedfan.sys SpeedFan http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php
Dec 23 2013 SmartDefragDriver.sys Smart Defrag driver (IObit) http://www.iobit.com/
Feb 17 2014 usbfilter.sys AMD USB Filter driver
May 03 2014 VClone.sys Virtual Clone CD driver http://www.elby.ch/
Dec 17 2014 ElbyCDIO.sys ElbyCD Windows Input/Output driver http://www.elby.ch/
Mar 31 2015 HWiNFO64A.SYS HWiNFO AMD64 Kernel driver https://www.hwinfo.com/

if you can update any of those it might help too. remove them if you don't use anymore.
AMD drivers are probably okay
Speedfan hasn't been updated since 2013
HWINFO is okay as well.

I have seen Vclone crash someone elses system recently
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
I don't think i can tell from that BSOD if its PSU or not. TBH, I don't know of any BSOD that points direct at PSU so there is that. IRQ errors are mostly drivers or ram. I think I need an NT manual that shows what all the commands mean, I can guess that isn't free.

if you can update any of those it might help too. remove them if you don't use anymore.
Thank you @Colif . I followed your suggestion and updated/uninstalled a few of them. It seems I can't update specifically a few drivers (AMD and Wondershare, a software I did uninstall few days ago), I am going to checking them with Driver Verifier.

Today I experienced another BSOD (dump: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1keojhZP7LQ6ks97Zy8gd8uR2pvi5BrrW) when I was playing to Universim, and the game itself crashed to desktop 2 or 3 times before the BSOD.
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump file through the debugger and got the following information: https://mutableclownfish.htmlpasta.com/

File information:050620-56390-01.dmp (May 6 2020 - 09:19:00)
Bugcheck:KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (1E)
Probably caused by:ntkrnlmp.exe (Process: The Universim.)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 19 Min(s), and 11 Sec(s)

This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
There is a way to force windows to maybe show driver name but i won't suggest that yet as it can lead to boot loops and in some rare cases, reinstalling windows... people hear that and go "why would I suggest it then?" and my answer is, its part of windows. Is it my fault Microsoft can't make a driver testing tool that doesn't break their own system?

So anyway, I won't suggest that yet... see if we can figure out cause another way. Can you run this for me - https://www.sysnative.com/forums/pages/bsodcollectionapp/
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
There is a way to force windows to maybe show driver name but i won't suggest that yet as it can lead to boot loops and in some rare cases, reinstalling windows... people hear that and go "why would I suggest it then?" and my answer is, its part of windows. Is it my fault Microsoft can't make a driver testing tool that doesn't break their own system?
LOL! :D

I am running the software you suggested @Colif, but now is on some sort of "Waiting for SystemInfo" loop... is that normal? I didn't stop it though, it is still on.
Meanwhile, this is the last BSOD (different from the one I attached yesterday): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EvDvKXnQJZSkQeu7tMRl2feozw6-00uX
Yesterday I also tried Driver Verifier, but the subsequent BSOD are the last 2 I attached. Now it's disabled.
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
I stopped the process, restarted my PC and tried SysnativeBSODCollectionApp again, but it's still on a loop. Just for the record, the final action "Autoruns... DONE" ended at 3:29. It is now 3:46 and it is still showing "Waiting for SystemInfo" (and all the background prompt windows are now closed).
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump file through the debugger and got the following information: https://glassierbelt.htmlpasta.com/

File information:050620-47312-01.dmp (May 6 2020 - 12:08:54)
Bugcheck:SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3B)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: The Universim.)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 32 Min(s), and 33 Sec(s)

This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
did sysinfo ever finish?

i wonder if you have an error constantly happening every minute and it never gets a chance to complete. you could look in system information/software Environment/Windows error reporting. See if you have lots of events showing in the right hand column (although you wouldn't know what lots vs normal would be). You would likely notice something happening constantly, its pretty obvious.

I think that last error was something to do with lan... I wonder, last person who couldn't create his report had a realtek driver crashing every minute, when did you update your drivers? I see they are from Feb.
Feb 12 2020rt640x64.sysRealtek NICDRV 8169 PCIe GBE Family Controller driver

latest on here are april - https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/network-interface-controllers-10-100-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
did sysinfo ever finish?

i wonder if you have an error constantly happening every minute and it never gets a chance to complete. you could look in system information/software Environment/Windows error reporting. See if you have lots of events showing in the right hand column (although you wouldn't know what lots vs normal would be). You would likely notice something happening constantly, its pretty obvious.

I think that last error was something to do with lan... I wonder, last person who couldn't create his report had a realtek driver crashing every minute, when did you update your drivers? I see they are from Feb.
Feb 12 2020rt640x64.sysRealtek NICDRV 8169 PCIe GBE Family Controller driver

latest on here are april - https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/network-interface-controllers-10-100-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software
Thank you @Colif, I updated the Realtek driver, let's what happens. No, unfortunately SysInfo never finished, I tried multiple times.

I checked Windows Error Reporting (I am also attaching what I manage to save from System Info: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pr-NBf_WX08RaaWtsykA7BPDXbPoAGNx).
The most common errors seem to be (from 04/30/20 to 05/08/20):

  • AppHangB1: 19 times
  • BSOD: 16 times
  • AppCrash: 10 times
  • Live Kernel Event: 4 times
  • MoAppCrash: 4 times
  • Radar_Pre_Leak: 4 times
  • MoAppHang: 2 times
  • AppHangTransient: 1 time
  • Bex64: 1 time
  • CLR20: 1 time
Of course, all of them occured while playing either The Sims or Universim.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
not many application errors there.
apphangs likely happened and you didn't even notice, most errors in there can be ignored but its always nice overview of what might be cause. I blame universim.. delete it, problem solved :)

but I assume you don't like that answer...

16 BSOD and only 4 live kernel events, odd.. i would have thought they match. guess it doesn't record them all.
if that sysnative thing had ever finished, it would have included more than what you showed me but thats better than nothing :)
 
May 2, 2020
31
0
30
0
not many application errors there.
apphangs likely happened and you didn't even notice, most errors in there can be ignored but its always nice overview of what might be cause. I blame universim.. delete it, problem solved :)
It basically means that I can't play nor Universim nor The Sims (since the issue started way before the Universim installation) but you're right, I am not very fond to the idea of deleting them because it would mean I wasted my money on them. :D

16 BSOD and only 4 live kernel events, odd.. i would have thought they match. guess it doesn't record them all.
if that sysnative thing had ever finished, it would have included more than what you showed me but thats better than nothing :)
Unfortunately SysNative never ends... is there any other way to collect the same info?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS