BTX just for Intel, not AMD?

[spartan92]

Hi all, just wondered if someone could clear up something for me. Is the upcoming BTX standard, which seems to be pushed by Intel, only going to be followed by them. If I build a new AMD system now, will there still be ATX sized components for the next couple years if I wish to make upgrades?

 

[jammydodger]

Thats a very good question.

P4c 2.6@3.25
512Mb PC4000
2x120Gb 7200.7 in RAID0
Waterchill KT12-L30
Abit AI7
Radeon 9800Pro

 

[Crashman]

Intel will allow anyone to use it, or not use it. The good news here is, since I'm too poor to buy anything, I don't need to worry about it for a long time!

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[jammydodger]

But that doesnt necessarily mean AMD will adopt it.

P4c 2.6@3.25
512Mb PC4000
2x120Gb 7200.7 in RAID0
Waterchill KT12-L30
Abit AI7
Radeon 9800Pro

 

[Crashman]

I don't see this being AMD's decision. The motherboard makers can design ATX or BTX at their own discretion. But if ATX persists in the market, they may choose not to.

I see boardmakers producing both ATX and BTX boards for intel processors, and possibly producing BTX for AMD processors if BTX gains popularity.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[upec]

Not only BTX need motherboard manufacturers to support it. it will need case and PSU manufacturers to support it and most importantly it will need us the customers to support it. I think ATX will persist in the market. There is not really any advantage to get a new BTX case and PSU if you already using a good ATX case and PSU. I already have some good cases and PSUs. I hope I will not have to get a new case and PSU because I want to upgrade my CPU and motherboard.

 

[Crashman]

Don't forget OEM's, even the small local builders. If BTX gets overwhelming support from system builders, ATX might run out of steam fairly quickly.

Remember how many hobbiest tried to keep the AT form factor alive?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[AntecRep]

AT did survive for awhile after ATX came out. I'd expect they'll co-exist for a couple of years, after that it'll depend on what's actually selling.
Or if there's yet another form factor.

AntecRep

 

[Crashman]

Yes, it stuck around a while but faded fast, so that only a few boards were around for more than a year. In fact, Asus's P2B-B was radical compared to their P2B-F, probably because it was released later: It supported Coppermine PIII's (Tualatins using an adapter), bus speeds up to 150Mhz, etc. But try finding one!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[upec]

ATX does have advange over AT. AT does not support soft power off. ATX also make power connector to motherboard easier. BTX does not offer anything that a good ATX case already offered.

 

[upec]

Also Intel still have monoply during the time of switching from AT to ATX. Now It is a lot harder for Intel to force us with new techology they perfer. For example, Intel failed to force us to use Rambus memory. If Intel still have monoply now everybody will have Rambus memory in their new computer. Intel does not have monoply anymore. It is harder for them to force us to use a new stardard. Intel also failed twice to replace ATX wiht new standard.

 

[etp777]

Umm, yeah. Nothing to offer. Except for a betterlayout(to support smaller boards, not a vast concern to me, but useful for various things), and design for superior airflow. No more sticks or ram perpendicular to the airflow to make nice big stops in the flow path.

Better airflow and less turbulence of course both contribute to quieter systems(well, quieter would be relative, as systems will continue to dissipate more heat, so the quieter design will be offset by need for more cooling). Still allows systems to be quieter than an ATX form factor does though.

 

[Crashman]

A lot of old ATX boards put the memory parallel to the top PCI slot. So "setting it in stone" with BTX isn't needed. In fact MSI has a new board with the memory located at the top edge.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

ATX has a lot of advantages, but AT did get ATX power after ATX was released. ATX gave you a place to put your CPU where it didn't block any slots from use with long cards. Still, AT is a more space efficient design, smaller than Micro ATX and with 8 slots! 8!!! In fact, if everyone used short length cards AT (using ATX power) would be ideal for small systems!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[etp777]

yeah, but that's the exception, not the rule. I know, because it's a pain shoppping for 1U atx boards for that reason. Or at least is for me, and a coupla friends who all look for that. This way I won' thave to worry about that.

 

[upec]

In reply to
yeah, but that's the exception, not the rule.

It is better to let motherboard designer to choice how to place the ram than make it into a rule on how to place the ram. I do not think more rules and less flexibility for motherboard designer is a good thing. Why do we need Intel telling motherboard designer how to place the RAM slot on their motherboard?

 

[upec]

The only advange smaller boards provide is smaller computer. Personally I do not like small computer because they are very hard to work with. In order to install a RAM stick into a tiny SONY computer I have to remove many cables before I can even reach the RAM slot.

 

[etp777]

I don't choose to have a small computeer either, but that doesn't hcange the fact that there are very good reasons to have a small motherboard. HTPCs, dedicated lan gaming systems for people who don't wanna drag a full tower to lan parties, 1U servers, plasma display engines(which I'm still learning about to help a customer, dedicated computer systems for Plasma displays, for uses where a company used to use a computer hooked to a projector).

And as we've already stated, it's up to the motherboard manufacturers whether or not to use them. It's not like Intel is saying here's BTX, everyone has to use this standard or you're going to rot in hell for all eternity.

There are computers now that don't fit the ATX standard(in normal, micro or extended), ie ITX, NLX, and sure there are others.

Intel is trying to set a new standard that allows increased airflow, and sizes better to smaller systems. Think half the reason people are complaining comes down to two reasons, neither of which is a really logical reason to dislike introduction of BTX.

1. They just dislike Intel. Such is their choice, but rather foolish reason to immediately dislike BTX.
2. They prefer ATX(either because they don't want to have to replace stuff they already have, or jsut prefer it for some reason). That's all well and good, but no reason to complain about introduction of a new standard for those who want it. I kept an AT board until just a year or two ago. I prefered a hardware power switch on the front of my case in easy reach. Coulda sset that up with an ATX system, but had no reason to. Had a perfectly good AT case and power supply that had served me for years. Does that mean I badmouthed ATX, or complained about fact it had been introduced? No, quite to the contrary, built tons of computers with it for various customers/jobs, and enjoyed fact I was no longer threading that frigging power cable to a front switch. Will I upgrade to BTX when it comes out later this year? No, again, I have a perfectly servicable case/psu/motherboard that I jsut bought earlier this year, and have no interests in replacing all that again. Does that mean I'll complain about BTX? Nope, and will probably start using that for new builds again, at least for builds from scratch, probably not upgrades for a while though, unless the customer really wants to add in cost of the extra components that will require replacing.

 

[upec]

I love Intel product. Intel always have better chipset so my primary computer have always been Intel based.
It is possible to create a standard that have all the advantage of BTX and still compatible with ATX. I just did not like Intel create a totally new and uncompitable standard. Intel even create a new PSU for BTX.

 

[Tamat]

What do the new BTX cases look like? Anyone got a link of some pictures or design specs?

 

[rook]

There is an article over at <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876" target="_new">AnandTech</A> about it.

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