Question Budget Cooler for i5-13600kf ?

[THRobinson]

Hey guys... got an old PC that's starting to struggle and I have a VERY tight budget for upgrading with. Keeping most of my original system just upgrading the board/cpu/ram and fan.

Originally was gonna grab the i5-12600kf with DDR4, but if I get a more budget board for a few bucks more I can get the i5-13600kf with DDR5 which seems worth the extra few bucks (maybe?).

Where I am lost is with fans.

I don't OC, I don't want RGB lights, I'd prefer just black/metal but it's in a metal case with no windows so not really worried about the colour. I have a Xeon now, which is basically a 4th gen i7, and using a basic Arctic Alpine 11, and been more than fine. Previously, I always used the stock fan. I've been reading and watching reviews and they go on and on about heat patterns and thermal paste dispersal, fan speeds etc... but they never just plainly say "if your CPU is X or higher, it won't work". So I don't know what's overkill for my situation, of if I can something better but cheaper.

I play games... not a lot, but some. GTX1060 OC 6GB now, and maybe nearer the end of the year I'll grab a used RTX 2070s, or RTX 3060... but for now I think I'd benefit more from the CPU upgrade. I also encode/shrink H.265 video a lot, and have been getting a bit more advanced with Fusion360.

Hoped around $35CAD, but thinking I may have to double that. At which time I may have to look at stepping back down to the i5-12600kf, which is still way faster than what I have.

Here's my current list, sitting at about $800CAD.
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ZgN6bK

Decent upgrade/parts? Fan ok? or not nearly enough? do I need to look at the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 120? which really hops up in price. Is it really THAT much better than a fan?

Welcome any advice... just remember I'm hoping to stay as close to the price as possible.

 

[Darkbreeze]

That single finstack Thermalright cooler is probably not enough. That Liquid Freezer 120 is definitely not enough, and I would not recommend using any single width 120 or 140mm AIO cooler for any of the i5 or higher 12th or 13th Gen parts.

What can you realistically budget for the cooler, because the Thermalright peerless assassin 120X SE is probably the very best combination of performance and value that you are going to find right now. So, especially in your market where everything is significantly higher in price, you are not going to find a 35 dollar cooler that's going to do a great job on the 13600k or kf. It's a 125w part that can pull up to 187w at full load with the stock configuration.

This would be the least expensive option I'd recommend for that CPU, and yes, the performance of that CPU is significantly better, like 40% better multithreaded and 7-10% better single core, than the 12600k/kf.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 White 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($68.65 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $68.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-02 03:10 EST-0500


While there is nothing wrong with ASRock, the Phantom gaming boards are pretty crappy/low end. I mean, they'll work, but don't be terribly surprised if you have quality or performance issues on them because they have low end VRM configurations and do not use the greatest components. If I had to choose between getting a better board and sticking with the 12600k/f versus using the Phantom Gaming board with an even higher TDP and core count 13600k/f, I'd stay with the 12600kf.

 

[Why_Me]

That cooler won't cut it for that cpu. I would look at the i5 13400 / 13400F ($210 USD if I had to guess) due to be released next week at the CES event.

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i5-...core-i5-12400-consumes-30-percent-more-power/

Pair it up with a dual tower cooler such as these for example.

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/9T92FT/deepcool-ak620-6899-cfm-cpu-cooler-r-ak620-bknnmt-g

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/GCjBD3/deepcool-ag620-6788-cfm-cpu-cooler-r-ag620-bknnmn-g-1

 

[SkyNetRising]

Welcome any advice... just remember I'm hoping to stay as close to the price as possible.

Change board to DDR4 model and ram to DDR4.
You'll shave off another $130.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Also, if you'd stick to a DDR4 board, you wouldn't really lose anything and the memory and board would all be a lot less expensive.

 

[Darkbreeze]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600KF 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($387.50 @ shopRBC)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 White 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($68.65 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B660 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($249.50 @ Vuugo)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $820.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-02 03:21 EST-0500

 

[THRobinson]

So keep i5-13600kf but drop to DDR4. Switch to the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120.

Saved me about $20. Which isn't a lot but the right direction.

Do I need a Z690? @Darkbreeze I see you suggested a B660... though it's $100 more than the ASRock. What's the dif between a Z690 and B660? Anything performance/speed?

Board wise, I do plan to upgrade (eventually) my SSD to an M.2, and my GTX1060 video card... maybe 9-12 months from now.

Otherwise, I only need 1 slot for the video, 1 slot for the M.2. 4xSATAIII ports, as many USB as possible. 1GB/s or better ethernet. No WiFi needed. Everything I have is CAT6 ethernet connected except the phone.

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX00119937
MSI PRO B660-A DDR4 $149.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660-A-DDR4

Intel Core i5-13400F $210 USD if I had to guess

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0B6FD741J
DeepCool AG620 Dual-Tower CPU Cooler $74.99

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX00115681
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3600MHz 32GB (2x16GB) CL18 $129.99

 

[Darkbreeze]

So keep i5-13600kf but drop to DDR4. Switch to the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120.

Saved me about $20. Which isn't a lot but the right direction.

Do I need a Z690? @Darkbreeze I see you suggested a B660... though it's $100 more than the ASRock. What's the dif between a Z690 and B660? Anything performance/speed?

Board wise, I do plan to upgrade (eventually) my SSD to an M.2, and my GTX1060 video card... maybe 9-12 months from now.

Otherwise, I only need 1 slot for the video, 1 slot for the M.2. 4xSATAIII ports, as many USB as possible. 1GB/s or better ethernet. No WiFi needed. Everything I have is CAT6 ethernet connected except the phone.

How do you figure it's 100 dollars more when the Z690 Phantom gaming board you selected is 229 dollars and the B660 Tomahawk WiFi, with a MUCH better VRM and overall quality, is 250? Based on screenshot of your PCPP build. And the memory is like 75 bucks cheaper?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Honestly the DDR5 really isn't worth it yet. The latency still pretty well kills any frequency advantages it has and the cost is not competitive.

As for the board, you can absolutely get the price of it down with really cheap boards like the Phantom gaming or that B660-A, but you are going to get exactly what you've paid for.

 

[Why_Me]

Honestly the DDR5 really isn't worth it yet. The latency still pretty well kills any frequency advantages it has and the cost is not competitive.

As for the board, you can absolutely get the price of it down with really cheap boards like the Phantom gaming or that B660-A, but you are going to get exactly what you've paid for.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYKF3ytk6jg

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtqz9F8EhIM

 

[Why_Me]

Hey guys... got an old PC that's starting to struggle and I have a VERY tight budget for upgrading with. Keeping most of my original system just upgrading the board/cpu/ram and fan.

Originally was gonna grab the i5-12600kf with DDR4, but if I get a more budget board for a few bucks more I can get the i5-13600kf with DDR5 which seems worth the extra few bucks (maybe?).

Where I am lost is with fans.

I don't OC, I don't want RGB lights, I'd prefer just black/metal but it's in a metal case with no windows so not really worried about the colour. I have a Xeon now, which is basically a 4th gen i7, and using a basic Arctic Alpine 11, and been more than fine. Previously, I always used the stock fan. I've been reading and watching reviews and they go on and on about heat patterns and thermal paste dispersal, fan speeds etc... but they never just plainly say "if your CPU is X or higher, it won't work". So I don't know what's overkill for my situation, of if I can something better but cheaper.

I play games... not a lot, but some. GTX1060 OC 6GB now, and maybe nearer the end of the year I'll grab a used RTX 2070s, or RTX 3060... but for now I think I'd benefit more from the CPU upgrade. I also encode/shrink H.265 video a lot, and have been getting a bit more advanced with Fusion360.

Hoped around $35CAD, but thinking I may have to double that. At which time I may have to look at stepping back down to the i5-12600kf, which is still way faster than what I have.

Here's my current list, sitting at about $800CAD.
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ZgN6bK

Decent upgrade/parts? Fan ok? or not nearly enough? do I need to look at the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 120? which really hops up in price. Is it really THAT much better than a fan?

Welcome any advice... just remember I'm hoping to stay as close to the price as possible.

You don't OC so no need to spend more money on an unlocked cpu such as the 13600KF which requires a board with beefier VRM's.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Actually, overclocking or not overclocking, it's still a better choice if performance is more valuable to you than saving a few bucks. It has already been confirmed that the 13600 and 13600f (And all models below it) are going to be based on Alder lake die, not Raptor lake, so that seems to me like a particularly poor choice especially to be recommending before even the slightest, least trustworthy of theoretical reviews has been seen. We already know that the performance of Alder lake parts is significantly lower than Raptor lake in both multi and single core performance. Value-wise, it could be a good option, but we have absolutely no way of knowing that before the parts have even been released from NDA for reviewers to share with us. And this is exactly why recommending parts you are literally 100% clueless about is really frowned upon.

You simply don't know. Period. It could be a really good budget option, but it also might be that the performance to price analysis might result in strictly sticking to the older Alder lake parts for budget builds makes more sense.

Now, as to those two reviews above. To begin with, they are from really sketchy yahoos that I wouldn't be inclined to trust much at all since they have very few subscribers, are not names known to me at all in more than 35 years of doing this (And believe me, I watch reviews from Youtube posted by the names in this industry that are known and trustworthy, all the time, not just when I'm needing something to point to in order to back something up) BUT, beyond that indications from sources which ARE trustworthy indicate that it might well be a good choice especially if you DO go with one of the lower tiered CPU models. And the reason I say "might" is that in the reviews that ARE trustworthy for that board, that I looked at, they indicated the quality seemed fine and the configuration of the VRMs was decent but that it was comprised of components they were not familiar with so that it would be hard to make an assumption that the alpha and omega mosfets quality was good.

We've seen this from MSI before, with a beefy VRM configuration that used unknown parts which ended up having all kinds of problems with power delivery in the wild, across the board. I'd prefer seeing known and trusted components on any board I was going to use or recommend but again this might well depend on what CPU you DO end up going with.

Personally, if I was buying a new CPU now or in two weeks there's no way I'd go with any model based on Alder lake architecture unless there was a VERY substantial difference in price or performance simply wasn't my biggest priority. That said, both ways are options and you'll need to make those decisions for yourself. If you are not needing or wanting to do this now, then wait and see. But I would not make the assumption that you are going to be able to get something in a week or next month that performs just as well as what's available now for significantly less money like was possible with 11th and 12th Gen parts because those budget models used the same architecture as the higher end models, not a last Gen architecture.

 

[THRobinson]

How do you figure it's 100 dollars more when the Z690 Phantom gaming board you selected is 229 dollars and the B660 Tomahawk WiFi, with a MUCH better VRM and overall quality, is 250? Based on screenshot of your PCPP build. And the memory is like 75 bucks cheaper?

Well, $100... because the ASRock (on my screen) says $151 and the MSI $249. If I switched to DDR4 that board in your screen shot will no longer work since it's for DDR5.

So, what I ended up with before going to bed around 3am, was my original list vs updated. I had G.Skill but the Corsair is another $20 cheaper for what seems to be about the same memory so, updated that. So only about $30 between the DDR5 and DDR4. But, since the consensus is that the $35 fan won't work, I put that $30 towards the bigger fan.

i5-13400 may be cheaper, but for now can't estimate with it since doesn't appear to be released.

@Why_Me not sure about the motherboard yet, just about to watch the vids you linked. That said, my first choice originally (and still) is the Asus PRIME Z690-P WIFI D4 ATX... I have no need for WiFi as mentioned before but it's $10 cheaper than the model without. Otherwise, I'd rather the one without WiFi. One less thing to deal with.

So, I guess with the updated build link, I dropped down to DDR4, beefed up the fan, and saving $34.

Original - $801
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ZgN6bK

Updated - $767
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/nDfmZw

 

[THRobinson]

Seems like Z690 is more for overlocking and B660 isn't... which is fine. I'll never overclock.

SATA slots seems fine, B660 has 4. I need 4. (3 really since can't recall the last time I used my DVD burner).

PCIe lanes... that's where I'm scratching my head. How's that affect GPU performance? Again, I only need 1 slot for the video card. Maybe an extra slot just in case I add something.

Probably save a few bucks not using a full ATX. Doesn't seem to add any performance, just slots. I do want an M.2. I have a 250GB SSD now as my C:\ and all my docs/downloads/etc mapped to an HDD for storage. Games and apps run off SSD and it's getting full (Borderlands 3, just finally got it, 93GB, sheesh).

 

[THRobinson]

Actually, overclocking or not overclocking, it's still a better choice if performance is more valuable to you than saving a few bucks. It has already been confirmed that the 13600 and 13600f (And all models below it) are going to be based on Alder lake die, not Raptor lake, so that seems to me like a particularly poor choice especially to be recommending before even the slightest, least trustworthy of theoretical reviews has been seen. We already know that the performance of Alder lake parts is significantly lower than Raptor lake in both multi and single core performance. Value-wise, it could be a good option, but we have absolutely no way of knowing that before the parts have even been released from NDA for reviewers to share with us. And this is exactly why recommending parts you are literally 100% clueless about is really frowned upon.

So... the i5-13600kf is a poor choice? or is that a typo and the i5-13400 and below will be Alder Lake? i5-13600 and up Raptor?

 

[Darkbreeze]

It doesn't say "i5-13600kf". It says "i5-13600 and 13600f" which are not the same as the "kf". The "kf" is the same as the "k" but without any integrated graphics. And personally, even though it is a few dollars cheaper, I would always opt for the actual "k" model (For myself, but I'd recommend it to anybody else willing to pay a little bit more. And actually in some cases, they are the same price) if I wasn't going to go with a locked model, because unless you always have multiple graphics cards on hand to use in the event you have to do any troubleshooting, it is very helpful to have the integrated graphics for that purpose even if you never use it for any other thing besides that.

But again, that's just my personal preference.

So no, it's not a typo. The i5-13600, 13600f, and anything below them, will be built on Alder lake die, not Raptor lake. That means they are

https://www.pcgamer.com/intels-13th-gen-13600-and-below-to-be-based-on-the-older-alder-lake-architecture/

 

[THRobinson]

@Darkbreeze ah, so in addition to the i5-13600k and i5-13600kf, they're doing 2 more versions without the k but not based on the same architecture? That's... confusing. I know someone mentioned the i5-13400 so thought that's the (specific) one you were referring to, but wow, same gen i5 and multiple architectures. It's like they WANT to make it confusing.

I'll stick with the i5-13600kf. No plan to overclock, but also don't need the video portion. I have a Xeon now, no video, after 8yrs I haven't needed it.

Sigh... until I just jinxed myself.

I'm pretty happy with the CPU/Memory/Fan at this point... Motherboard a bit up in the air still. Prices jump all over with those because every month someone has a rebate.

Being an ASUS fanboy... this caught my eye. Though I wish they had a cheaper non-WiFi version listed. Maybe they do just no price listed so doesn't show up in my search on that site.

Asus TUF GAMING B660M-PLUS WIFI D4 Micro ATX

Main concern, and doesn't sound like it impacts performance much, is the PCIe lane count. I'll never have a rtx2080/3080 likely.... more in the rtx2070s/3060 used range is what I've been looking at. Hard to say which way to go with those... lower end but newer vs higher end but older.

 

[THRobinson]

Nice, that Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE is only $43 on Amazon.ca... Not listed on the pc part picker site. Saves another $25ish.

Maybe should grab it before price goes up... Buy parts as they go on sale though risky if any issues. That same cooler on Amazon, different seller is $93CAD.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, that's a good cooler. Do not die of shock when you see that it is MUCH larger than any stock cooler you've ever dealt with, but also much SMALLER than the majority of double finstack coolers, even most of the ones with only 120mm fans on them rather than 140mm fans like the D14, D15 and other big air coolers. Even so, the first time I ever saw a 120mm tower cooler after coming mostly from stock coolers I was not expecting it. Just mentioned it since you stated you've always used the stock type coolers.

Never fear, your case supports coolers up to 170mm tall and this is only 155mm. Here is what it will look like in your case.

Gonna look something like this when installed.

Non-WiFi version.

https://www.amazon.ca/B660-PLUS-D4-...ywords=B660+motherboard&qid=1672730663&sr=8-8


But if we're being honest, seems like that MSI Pro B660-A is a better board than that ASUS. And it's less expensive.

https://www.amazon.ca/MSI-B660-Moth...ywords=B660+motherboard&qid=1672730663&sr=8-2


Comparisons:

Intel B660 Motherboard VRM, Mid-Range Roundup

In this roundup we have 8 new Intel B660 motherboards that go for from $150 to $250. Spoiler alert: We're looking at a hefty 70% difference between...

www.techspot.com

 

[THRobinson]

Ya, I just recently tossed a box of Intel stock coolers that I've gathered over the years. Don't know why, not like they fit anything other than what they came with. The XEON I have now was the first one I ever bought an after market fan for, and it was an Arctic that was barely bigger than the stock fan. I have a big case on the floor, lots of airflow, and hopefully space inside for the cooler. If not.... I also have cutting tools and a 3D Printer and can make a hole in the side and print a nice vented "bump" to fit the hole.

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned Ryzen yet. Since not overclocking or going for a high-end gaming system, usually by now someone mentions Ryzen.

MSI does seem to be better for features. Though on the NewEgg site I noticed in the specs "* Dedicated LGA1700 mounting bracket is required."...? I gotta buy something extra to get the i5 to work?

Also been eyeing up the Asus TUF GAMING B660M-PLUS WIFI D4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard but then I'm paying extra for stuff like WiFi that I don't want/need.

I think best plan is to find 2-3 boards and when time comes to buy, see which is on sale, since every week at least one is likely on sale and one likely not in stock. Shortlist I guess.

I'm pretty certain I'll be getting the RTX2070 Super GPU (used) as my next card. Older than the RTX3060 but still performs better and same price used. I won't lose any (noticeable) performance with the B660 chipset, will I?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Actually, most of them will fit pretty much any Intel CPU. All of Intel's CPU coolers have basically been interchangeable from LGA 1155 all the way through LGA 1700 as the mounting holes are all either exactly the same or close enough to not matter. Some aftermarket coolers might need an adapter for LGA 1700 boards but most do not and none do if using the stock backplate.

"Fitting" doesn't mean they are suitable for use with the thermal design power of a locked CPU though. Never use a stock cooler with an unlocked CPU model. If they were good enough, Intel would include them with the CPU but they are not good enough to keep thermals in check.


As far as mentioning Ryzen, well, normally if somebody wants to entertain a change of camp they'll say so. Plus, last Gen Ryzen parts don't really compete at the same price points except maybe for the 5600G, which is an excellent option at 128 bucks, and the 7xxx series Ryzen parts require expensive boards and expensive DDR5 memory, so at this point they are just not as competitive at any price level as Intel is. At the higher end the parts are somewhat competitive but still the boards and memory for Ryzen are still too expensive unless you look at Intel boards using DDR5.

Since the latest Intel CPUs and boards can still use DDR4 which is much less expensive and is comparable in performance because DDR5 is new and still in it's period of high latency, it is still a pretty good option but there ARE reasons for going the opposite direction not least of which is if price isn't the biggest consideration and you have to buy memory anyhow, might want it already compatible with some future platform upgrades. Since it kind of looks like DDR6 might come around sooner than DDR5 did, that might not be very convincing for some people.

 

[THRobinson]

I don't mind switching camps to RYZEN if the i5 is overkill for me... I mean, most reviews/tests I've seen are often with RTX3080 boards, 64GB ram running 4k video. Me, running half that, I just don't wanna pay for performance that'll never get used.

Like buying a car that goes 300kph instead of one that goes 250kph, knowing that you'll never drive past 100mph anyways.

But, really just gotta explore the alternative options just in case. My thinking with the i5 is that in 4yrs maybe I'll find a cheap i7 used and instead of buying all new hardware, I can just drop in a new CPU and get another 4yrs outta the system. Honestly don't know enough about RYZEN to know how it competes, or how upgrades work. I hear terms like "better band for the buck" but is the bang big enough and gonna last long enough to make the $100 I save really worth it since I don't upgrade every 2yrs.

 

[THRobinson]

Oh, was looking at the boards again and realized no BIOS flashback button... that an issue with this board since I have no 12th gen to boot with to make the 13th gen work.

 

[Darkbreeze]

It's a good option coming from what you have now, and much less expensive. In fact, it's not even close in terms of performance from your 4th Gen.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/2275vs4325/Intel-i7-4790K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-5600G


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($174.50 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard ($169.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($123.84 @ Amazon Canada)
Custom: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Air Cooler, PA120 SE, 6 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler, Dual 120mm TL-C12C PWM Fan, Aluminium Heatsink Cover, AGHP Technology, for AMD AM4/Intel 1700/1150/115 ($43.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $512.23
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-01-04 02:00 EST-0500