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[SOLVED] Budget Modem + Wifi Router w/ QoS?

FatheredPuma81

Honorable
Aug 18, 2013
250
2
10,795
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Looking to save $10/m by purchasing a Modem and Router however finding anything decent is proving really difficult. Google and Amazon are extremely helpful though recommending only Routers to me. So as a last ditch effort before i give up on this idea I've decided to post to here.
I also have no idea I need.

Budget is under $120, can be used, ISP is WOW, speeds are 200/10 with potential upgrade to 500/20, multiple 24/7 internet streams and, I game a lot and heard QoS can help with lag I have when someone loads a page likely caused due to terrible upload speed.
Oh also needs to be somewhat easy to setup and likely don't have a adequate computer for a homemade router.

Thanks
 
Your first step is to look though the ISP list of modem/routers they will activate. The ISP is responsible for software updates so they have limited lists of what they will support.

This is the downside to buying a modem/router combo device, there is very limited options.

You should not need QoS if your connection is 200mbps. QoS does nothing when there is no choice to make between data. If there is no data being delayed by other data then the lag is being caused by something else.
It is very hard to over use a 200mbps connection. You might exceed the upload speed but that only happens for very specialized applications. Someone who live streams or uploads say backups.

Make sure you are not attempting to play games on wifi. There is no magic solution to the lag caused by wifi interference.

The bad news is you can't actually use QoS on fast internet connections.....or more its going to cost you a lot.

To get high speed data rates modern routers use a feature to move the NAT function to hardware. This bypasses the CPU chip. To use QoS the cpu must see the data and you are then limited by the cpu speed. Most routers will not exceed 250mbps. Just turning the feature on with no fancy rules disables the hardware accelerator and you get the bottleneck. Fancy rules like the bufferbloat algorithms are even worse with many routers not even getting 100mbps.

To use QoS on a high speed connection you need to use a actual PC. This of course means you need a separate modem.

If you still want QoS on a router you are likely going to have to go with a separate modem. Most the QoS implementations on the combo units are extremely basic. The most advanced versions of QoS are in third party firmware but again your internet connection is too fast for most these devices.
 
Your first step is to look though the ISP list of modem/routers they will activate. The ISP is responsible for software updates so they have limited lists of what they will support.

This is the downside to buying a modem/router combo device, there is very limited options.

You should not need QoS if your connection is 200mbps. QoS does nothing when there is no choice to make between data. If there is no data being delayed by other data then the lag is being caused by something else.
It is very hard to over use a 200mbps connection. You might exceed the upload speed but that only happens for very specialized applications. Someone who live streams or uploads say backups.

Make sure you are not attempting to play games on wifi. There is no magic solution to the lag caused by wifi interference.

The bad news is you can't actually use QoS on fast internet connections.....or more its going to cost you a lot.

To get high speed data rates modern routers use a feature to move the NAT function to hardware. This bypasses the CPU chip. To use QoS the cpu must see the data and you are then limited by the cpu speed. Most routers will not exceed 250mbps. Just turning the feature on with no fancy rules disables the hardware accelerator and you get the bottleneck. Fancy rules like the bufferbloat algorithms are even worse with many routers not even getting 100mbps.

To use QoS on a high speed connection you need to use a actual PC. This of course means you need a separate modem.

If you still want QoS on a router you are likely going to have to go with a separate modem. Most the QoS implementations on the combo units are extremely basic. The most advanced versions of QoS are in third party firmware but again your internet connection is too fast for most these devices.
 
I use a sb6190 with our wow 500/50 plan without a hitch for years now. And it's used to connect to another sb6190 across the country for a 24x7 ipsec vpn tunnel between the two where latency would be an issue (vnc and rdp), and no issues at all. The sb6190 can be found cheap as people think it's defective and then you can pick up any router you want.
 

FatheredPuma81

Honorable
Aug 18, 2013
250
2
10,795
1
Your first step is to look though the ISP list of modem/routers they will activate. The ISP is responsible for software updates so they have limited lists of what they will support.

This is the downside to buying a modem/router combo device, there is very limited options.

You should not need QoS if your connection is 200mbps. QoS does nothing when there is no choice to make between data. If there is no data being delayed by other data then the lag is being caused by something else.
It is very hard to over use a 200mbps connection. You might exceed the upload speed but that only happens for very specialized applications. Someone who live streams or uploads say backups.

Make sure you are not attempting to play games on wifi. There is no magic solution to the lag caused by wifi interference.

The bad news is you can't actually use QoS on fast internet connections.....or more its going to cost you a lot.

To get high speed data rates modern routers use a feature to move the NAT function to hardware. This bypasses the CPU chip. To use QoS the cpu must see the data and you are then limited by the cpu speed. Most routers will not exceed 250mbps. Just turning the feature on with no fancy rules disables the hardware accelerator and you get the bottleneck. Fancy rules like the bufferbloat algorithms are even worse with many routers not even getting 100mbps.

To use QoS on a high speed connection you need to use a actual PC. This of course means you need a separate modem.

If you still want QoS on a router you are likely going to have to go with a separate modem. Most the QoS implementations on the combo units are extremely basic. The most advanced versions of QoS are in third party firmware but again your internet connection is too fast for most these devices.
Alright thank you for the info. I decided to just go with one of the modem+router combo's they recommend on their website under "600 Mbps". Ended up buying a Netgear C7000 for $90 and it's good to hear I shouldn't need QoS as it doesn't have any.
My next question would be why you can't, like everything else, download updates manually and apply them though? Really weird tbh...
 
This is your standard corporate IT support thing. It is very similar to why large companies took so long to go windows 10 even when it was available for years.

Companies view stability and consistency much more important than new features. The ISP for example do not want someone updating a modem and some bug then taking down all their neighbors because of a bug.

You would think the router manufacture could make something that you could update the router firmware separate from the modem but they don't sell this. I guess they feel most consumers would rather the ISP just take care of the modem/router and it just work. Kinda why a lot of people rent these devices even though even when you buy them the ISP still is in full control.
 
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