Bulldozer vs SandyBridge

[Cs342]

I'm planning on building a new system in January, but I can't decide whether I should build an AMD or Intel system. Which of these processors do you think will offer the best value for my money and why? Also what are the release dates for these 2 new processor lines, and should I just build a 1366 or AM3 system instead of waiting??

 

[jf-amd]

Absolutely. that is why I live by the rule that no benchmarks are released until we launch the product and that the only performance estimate that we provide is conservative (currently 16-core will have 50% more throughput than 12-core.)

Beyond that you are just asking for trouble.

 

[halfcalf]

Come on, Mr. Fruehe! Make me an AMD evangelist once again (like I was up to a few years ago)... send me one of those Bulldozer 16 cores! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeez? It's Xmas!

 

[yahee71]

They either have a game-changer or a dud. I'd hate to guess which one!

probably another non stoppable phenon lne

 

[halfcalf]

^ I don't know what you're saying.

 

[keithlm]

^ I don't know what you're saying.

He was being sarcastic and attempting to perpetuate the myth that the original Phenom chips performed worse than they actually did.

It seems that many people look at comparing CPU as something that is similar to a sporting event where only the person in first place "wins". To these people performing within a few percentage points of that "winner" can only be described as "losing". Even if the "losing" chip was a lot less expensive.

Without these people every thread that mentions both AMD and Intel wouldn't turn into a flame war. (Life would probably get boring.)

 

[halfcalf]

Thanks for the translation. I'll have to learn to speak yaheese.

 

[Plasticjesus690]

IF, for some crazy reason, intel is going to launch SB and IB within a 3 quarter span, it would say that intel was really concerned that BD was going to be a lot faster. It is extremely expensive to move to new processes, you don't rush that unless you are really under the gun. If you believe SB is faster, then intel would have no reason to spend the extra money to pull IB in. Take your pick on that one.

.

Reading between the lines does this mean that its not alot faster just giving you a hard time.

 

[sonoran]

RISC is a different architecture and Sun is in a different business model. For instance, what if you could get there with a $1000 cooler. On a $100K system that is not a big impact.

Thermal is the biggest reason for today's clock speeds. Look at what you have to do to get an x86 chip there today.

I would have to concur. The real (and never discussed) limit on power consumption isn't so much where the chip begins to overheat - it's where it begins to heat up the user's workspace. Few people want a computer that doubles as a space heater. Somewhere around 150W seems to be "it".

* Not speaking for Intel Corporation *

 

[halfcalf]

Actually, here up in Canada, we welcome space heaters... especially because it's going to be a La Nina winter! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

* Not speaking for The National Association For The Advancement Of Monochromatic Cows *

 

[ern88]

AMD is going to be a second rate company to Intel. I would love nothing more to see AMD live the old glory days. But I think BullDozer will be too big and slow to be able to roll over the Sandy Bridge. It will probably sink.

 

[halfcalf]

No benchies are out, but the latest info on

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294352-28-latest-sandy-bridge-news

shows that Bulldozer may be a beast! Looks like it's going to go head to head with Sandy Bridge LGA2011! Wow!

 

[jf-amd]

Too big? It is a smaller die than our current six core.

 

[amdfangirl]

My birthday is in March, so if both Bulldozer and Sandy Bridge are released before then then I should have a pretty good idea of what to expect.... although I've always favored AMD because their products are much more reasonably priced than Intel's.

Not entirely true, the older members do speak of a time when K8 CPUs commanded a massive price tag from AMD.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Ok we already have someone from amd representing us now if only someone from intel also represented us.
Then when a classic amd vs intel flamewar starts both of them will face each other heads on.And that will go down in the history of Tom as one of the most technical flamewar ever.And we user could just enjoy that thread with some popcorn.

Well JF is a director of marketing at AMD, not an engineer as he often states. And Sonoran is an Intel engineer IIRC, but I dunno if he works on CPU design or esp. Sandy Bridge design.

In any event, I doubt two company employees identified as such would engage in some pointless website flamewar. Their bosses would probably not look too kindly upon such activities ..

 

[someguy7]

I expect bulldozer to be good. I also think or hope it will be faster then SB.

Keith. Phenom 1 was garbage. Stop with that nonsense.

 

[cjl]

Sonoron who posted above works for intel.Maybe some Ex-employe can join tom and engage in some flamewar.

Why would you want a flamewar? I'd much rather see a civil discussion accurately assessing the merits and disadvantages of various design choices, as well as the details behind the designs.

(Not that that'll ever happen)

 

[amdfangirl]

Entirely depends who's posting in the thread.

I like threads. It's like string. Very tasty.

 

[loneninja]

Why would you want a flamewar? I'd much rather see a civil discussion accurately assessing the merits and disadvantages of various design choices, as well as the details behind the designs.

(Not that that'll ever happen)

Agreed, flame wars are for children, we need real discussions.

 

[amdfangirl]

I am a child

Don't like flame wars tho...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

I expect bulldozer to be good. I also think or hope it will be faster then SB.

Keith. Phenom 1 was garbage. Stop with that nonsense.

I'd say the problem with Barcie was that it way underperformed everybody's expectations due to all the pre-launch hype (remember the "dancing in the aisles" stories, plus Allen's interview as documented in the Youtube clip). So when it did debut late, with low clocks and then the TLB bug, and the benchies showed it much lower performance than what we had been lead to believe, it was a huge disappointment.

However I wouldn't call it garbage, plus AMD did get the clocks up and the bug fixed after a few months. In retrospect, AMD should probably have delayed the launch even more and used the extra time to more thoroughly test it. But at the time AMD was used to making a profit, unlikely as that sounds , so obviously they wanted it out the door and earning some return on their investment. And IMO they miscalculated the lasting impression such an underpowered and underperforming debut would have, at least for enthusiasts who are a really hard bunch of nerds to please ..

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Entirely depends who's posting in the thread.

I like threads. It's like string. Very tasty.

You're thinking of spaghetti noodles ..

 

[Phoenixlight]

Pricing information on Sandy Bridge CPU's:
http://www.overclock3d.net/articles/cpu_mainboard/sandy_bridge_and_p67_prices_revealed/1

 

[sonoran]

Well JF is a director of marketing at AMD, not an engineer as he often states. And Sonoran is an Intel engineer IIRC, but I dunno if he works on CPU design or esp. Sandy Bridge design.

In any event, I doubt two company employees identified as such would engage in some pointless website flamewar. Their bosses would probably not look too kindly upon such activities ..

I do not work on product design. I'm a software developer.

I think you will find that people who work for either company appreciate what a massively complex undertaking it is to produce today's CPUs. That's just one of many reasons you're unlikely to find us engaged in flame wars.

* Not speaking for Intel Corporation *

 

[jf-amd]

Well JF is a director of marketing at AMD, not an engineer as he often states. And Sonoran is an Intel engineer IIRC, but I dunno if he works on CPU design or esp. Sandy Bridge design.

In any event, I doubt two company employees identified as such would engage in some pointless website flamewar. Their bosses would probably not look too kindly upon such activities ..

you won't see me in a flame war, it's just not worth my time. All I do is confirm and clairfy. I generally stay out of "intel vs. AMD" threads, except to correct the incorrect statements. As a matter of fact, you'll probably note that I have said nothing about BD performance relative to SB because neither company has shipping silicon. I have clarified things like FP but haven't really made any statements on actual throughput.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

^ Well OK then how about a beer-chugging or arm-wrestling contest between you and Sonoran, to settle which is faster - BD or SB??

But in all seriousness, I agree that flamewars, etc. are pretty silly and only generate heat, not light. As in enlightenment..