Callous Oppressor and Quicksilver Elemental

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

(Oops.....I said I had several questions, but I just noticed before I
sent my "Scythe of the Wretched and Endless Whispers" posting that
Endless Whisper's ability is delayed until end of turn...Neat-o...)

Callous Oppressor
{1}{U}{U}
Creature -- Cephalid
1/2
You may choose not to untap Callous Oppressor during your untap step.
As Callous Oppressor comes into play, an opponent chooses a creature
type.
{T}: Gain control of target creature that isn't of the chosen type as
long as Callous Oppressor remains tapped.

Quicksilver Elemental
{3}{U}{U}
Creature -- Elemental
3/4
{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target
creature until end of turn. (If any of the abilities use that
creature's name, use this creature's name instead.)
You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the
activation costs of Quicksilver Elemental's abilities.

I'm sure you know what I'll ask... If the Quicksilver Elemental
copies the Callous Oppressor's abililty, does it copy the limitation
on what it can control too? Or is an identical, but separate ability
that never had the limitation imposed?

Thanks,

Rick Kunkel

 

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Rick Kunkel <NOSPAM-kunkel@w-link.net> wrote:

> I'm sure you know what I'll ask... If the Quicksilver Elemental
> copies the Callous Oppressor's abililty, does it copy the limitation
> on what it can control too? Or is an identical, but separate ability
> that never had the limitation imposed?

Here's the answer from Saturday School #57
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/rh102):

Q: When you use Quicksilver Elemental to copy Callous Oppressors ability
you can "{T}: Gain control of target creature that isn't of the chosen
type as long as Quicksilver Elemental remains tapped." I assume that the
creature type is the same one 'remembered' by the original card, but
what happens at the end of the turn when the Elemental loses the ability
but is still in play? Do you keep the a controlled creature permanently
or lose control of it?
-- Weldon T. Green

A: Actually, the Elemental only copies the ability, not any choices that
were made along with it - so Quicksilver Elemental would be able to take
control over creatures with any type, since it doesn't have a "chosen
type".
The duration of the effect is "as long as Quicksilver Elemental remains
tapped", and this duration is known even though the Elemental itself has
lost the ability - once activated, it's independent of the source. You
will keep control over the stolen creature until the Elemental stops
being tapped (by becoming untapped or leaving play).

(The rules actually state that choices like the one on Callous Oppressor
don't get copied, so this should also work for anything that can change
forms once in play.)
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Rick Kunkel <NOSPAM-kunkel@w-link.net> wrote:
>Callous Oppressor 1UU Creature -- Cephalid
>1/2 You may choose not to untap ~ during your untap step. / As ~ comes into
> play, an opponent chooses a creature type. / Tap: Gain control of target
> creature that isn't of the chosen type as long as ~ remains tapped.

The creature type is a targetting specification, so only matters on
announcement and resolution of the activated ability. It doesn't matter if
the creature's type later changes (or if it later stops being a creature,
either.)

>Quicksilver Elemental 3UU Creature -- Elemental
>3/4 U: ~ gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn.
> (If any of the abilities use that creature's name, use this creature's name
> instead.) / You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to
> pay the activation costs of ~'s abilities.

If QE steals the ability of CO, it will generally not have had a creature
type chosen for the QE at any particular time. So it will be able to steal
creatures of any type (or of no type at all); there will not be a creature type
forbidden to its ability.

>I'm sure you know what I'll ask... If the Quicksilver Elemental
>copies the Callous Oppressor's abililty, does it copy the limitation
>on what it can control too? Or is an identical, but separate ability
>that never had the limitation imposed?

The latter. Nothing on QE says "choose a creature type as QE comes into play"
or "choose a creature type as QE copies an ability that asks for a creature
type chosen previously" or the like. _Most_ of the time such abilities are
useless to the QE because they do something to creatures of the chosen type
- but CO's does something to creatures -not- of the chosen type, so is
actually slightly better if the type never got chosen.

(This also applies to a Vesuvan Doppelganger or Unstable Shapeshifter or
Volrath's Shapeshifter that becomes a CO at some point after coming into play,
by the way, as long as no creature type has been chosen for that permanent
previously.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.