News CAMM to Usurp SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Form Factor Says JEDEC Member

[Admin]

CAMM is set to replace SO-DIMM in premium laptop designs, according to JEDEC member and engineer Tom Schnell, who helped implement an early version of this memory in a Dell laptop last year.

CAMM to Usurp SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Form Factor Says JEDEC Member : Read more

 

[alceryes]

I like the supposed advance in tech, but am afraid that Dell will still try to make money from its patents and invention, thereby actually stifling tech advancement.

 

[-Fran-]

I like the supposed advance in tech, but am afraid that Dell will still try to make money from its patents and invention, thereby actually stifling tech advancement.

That's what everyone in the tech business does though?

When I read about the tech itself the first time, I thought it was really good, but I was super scared about Dell just making it proprietary and screwing its customers going forward, but I'm glad to see it was only the start and JEDEC is now officially onboarding it as a legit spec.

There's more that needs to happen, but it's definitely a good start.

Regards.

 

[rluker5]

It looks hard to install.

 

[Elrabin]

It looks hard to install.

Looks like a SXM module install to me. Just lays flat on the board and screws down.

https://www.dell.com/support/manual...20a0ce-1751-49fe-9577-5827d884c112&lang=en-us

 

[ezst036]

That's what everyone in the tech business does though?

There's this strange cult that exists in the tech world that everybody wants themselves to make maximum money, but doesn't want anybody around them to make a single cent.

I don't work for Dell. I hope Dell makes more money from CAMM as a JEDEC spec that all can use than they even realize that they will. The more the better.

 

[cyrusfox]

I welcome the new standard even if it brings a price premium over So-Dimm. It is rare to find a laptop that still offers 2 Sodimm Slots let alone 1.

This should enable upgradeability over the old solder on, we may now have the option to upgrade from the initial 16GB to potentially 128GB, although prices are obscene currently (128GB $2500, 64GB $1250, 32GB $630, 16GB $320) but like all things they should come down as the standard opens up and we get the likes of Crucial, G.Skill and Team Elite offering memory in this form factor.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Sounds good in theory, especially since it will mean upgradability for LPDDR, but let's hope that the ability to make laptops thinner doesn't mean they're going to make them thinner by shaving more battery capacity.

 

[rluker5]

Looks like a SXM module install to me. Just lays flat on the board and screws down.

https://www.dell.com/support/manual...20a0ce-1751-49fe-9577-5827d884c112&lang=en-us

A long bar of utterly unprotected LGA pins that may or may not still be partially concealed that you will have to line up by looking through the holes in the dram wafer. Nobody will ever bend 1 pin.
I won't have a problem doing it, but going by the number of bent pin mobos on Ebay, and that this is a significantly tougher fit than a boxed in CPU pad, I expect there will be many trashed laptops where previously there were none.

But if you can upgrade a cheaper laptop for less money than with SODIMMs then it might be worth the extra risk. Otherwise soldered on is better in some use cases and SODIMMs better in the others.

 

[Deleted member 431422]

I'd like to see how CAMM performs compared to DDR5 DIMM modules. It says CAMM can be quad-, dual-, single chanel. ECC support is planned, but not finalised. I'd definitely prefer a single CAMM module on a mATX mainboard, than four DIMM slots. Only two are populated anyway. There's no real benefit in populating four for a regular user.

I believe this tech is wasted on laptops, solely. CAMM module is held by screws and in horizontal position. Easier to add aftermarket radiator or dissipate heat from one module, instead of a row of two or four. I'd really like to see real world tests CAMM vs. DDR5 DIMM.

 

[eldakka1]

A long bar of utterly unprotected LGA pins that may or may not still be partially concealed that you will have to line up by looking through the holes in the dram wafer. Nobody will ever bend 1 pin.
I won't have a problem doing it, but going by the number of bent pin mobos on Ebay, and that this is a significantly tougher fit than a boxed in CPU pad, I expect there will be many trashed laptops where previously there were none.

But if you can upgrade a cheaper laptop for less money than with SODIMMs then it might be worth the extra risk. Otherwise soldered on is better in some use cases and SODIMMs better in the others.

Of course there won't be any user error installing these. It should be just as easy as installing a PCIe power cable to a GPU ... oh, wait ...

 

[watzupken]

Personally, I feel this is a progression and a regression at the same time. While it allows for faster memory to be used on laptops, the problem is the form factor. Laptops don't have that much real estate to house this giant card. This is especially so when you consider that laptop components are getting more and more power hungry, and the side effect is heat. When cooling is insufficient and you slap a giant card that covers a big portion of the motherboard, that may deprive the use of bigger heatsinks and more heatpipes. Ultimately, I feel laptops will go the way of mobile phones. You want more RAM, buy it upfront because they may solder it to the board which we are seeing more commonly now.

 

[Rdslw]

I like the supposed advance in tech, but am afraid that Dell will still try to make money from its patents and invention, thereby actually stifling tech advancement.

as someone who have alienware who have every screw, every cable proprietary, I see where trust issues comes from.

It looks hard to install.

Not really, place on the stands, should just fall in place & screw 6 mounting holes, just like m.2, (x6) I would say it's more annoying to replace than hard.
What I don't like that your OS stability depends on plastic screw holes, as they are first to go usually.
Second issues is that it's 1:1 replacement, so we are not getting anything better, or more slots, (except on ultra-thin, where you had single ram slot, now you have camm which is x2 DIMM in one) it's not moving us forward in making bigger/stronger laptops.
It's wide, with no design for stacking multiple or anything else that you could do above or below, so it's a very boring connector.
Maybe someone will make dual thicc camm modules, but for now it's just plain boring thing, like most dell things.

 

[Friesiansam]

but am afraid that Dell will still try to make money from its patents and invention

Of course it will, just like any other company developing new products. Every company needs to make money, how do you think business works?

 

[edzieba]

A long bar of utterly unprotected LGA pins that may or may not still be partially concealed that you will have to line up by looking through the holes in the dram wafer. Nobody will ever bend 1 pin.

Have you ever even seen a CAMM connector? These aren't like the LGA pin array in a CPU socket, these are the standard high-frequency-high-density connectors that have been used as backplane connectors (e.g. in servers, core switches and routers, etc) for decades. The key is that they are shrouded: the pins are not fully exposed until you compress the connector, that why the 'C' in 'CAMM' stands for 'Compression'. And the connector cannot be compressed when unaligned, due to the presence of the fixed alignment pins.
Whilst one could still press the connector shroud down with a thumb and run a screwdriver along the pins to damage them, one could also jam a screwdriver into a SODIMM slot too, as it is impossible to make a connector foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

 

[alceryes]

That's what everyone in the tech business does though?

When I read about the tech itself the first time, I thought it was really good, but I was super scared about Dell just making it proprietary and screwing its customers going forward, but I'm glad to see it was only the start and JEDEC is now officially onboarding it as a legit spec.

There's more that needs to happen, but it's definitely a good start.

Regards.

It's the stifling advancement that I'm afraid of - they're gonna make money regardless.

 

[alceryes]

Of course it will, just like any other company developing new products. Every company needs to make money, how do you think business works?

Again, it's the stifling advancement that I'm afraid of - they're gonna make money regardless.
Some companies use their patents like a sword, swinging it at any other company that wants to innovate further. I'm just hoping that THAT doesn't happen.

 

[kjfatl]

For JEDEC to accept this, any royalties to the patent holders need to be minimal. There is nothing magic about this. Dell is solving an obvious signal integrity problem caused by stubs on the signal lines. If Dell gets greedy, JECEC will simply pick another slightly different solution that resolves the signal integrity issue. Dell won't get very far if Intel pulls the patent trump card on them, and Dell has no reason to head in this direction.

 

[rluker5]

Have you ever even seen a CAMM connector? These aren't like the LGA pin array in a CPU socket, these are the standard high-frequency-high-density connectors that have been used as backplane connectors (e.g. in servers, core switches and routers, etc) for decades. The key is that they are shrouded: the pins are not fully exposed until you compress the connector, that why the 'C' in 'CAMM' stands for 'Compression'. And the connector cannot be compressed when unaligned, due to the presence of the fixed alignment pins.
Whilst one could still press the connector shroud down with a thumb and run a screwdriver along the pins to damage them, one could also jam a screwdriver into a SODIMM slot too, as it is impossible to make a connector foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

I could only find one picture up close. Apparently handled by a professional. 3 pins already problematic.

Also per Dell: " any direct contact with the pins may damage them ".
If these get cheaper they might be worth it, but 2 single height SODIMM slots will be as thin and take less area, be more durable and easier to find, and be cheaper. Soldered is a good stopgap, but in package memory is the first really justified improvement I see coming.
This is just messing around and making different standards that are more an incompatibiity issue than an improvement.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

This is hot garbage. Yes. Dell can shove off

 

[bit_user]

This should enable upgradeability over the old solder on,

There's one hitch - the upgrade is all-or-nothing. With SO-DIMMs, maybe you buy the laptop with one slot empty and then you can double the memory by installing RAM in it. With CAMM, you have to replace all of your memory with a new module.

 

[cyrusfox]

There's one hitch - the upgrade is all-or-nothing. With SO-DIMMs, maybe you buy the laptop with one slot empty and then you can double the memory by installing RAM in it. With CAMM, you have to replace all of your memory with a new module.

Definitely tradeoffs, but at least there is a return to some modularity. I have a couple platforms that have 4GB solder on with an empty Sodimm, straddling the line and I am stuck with 12 to 20GB of total ram and asynchronous mode. If all solder on was 16GB or 32GB I probably wouldn't complain except when they try and mark it up 3-5x market value. I like to see some level of modularity return and I would take CAMM over solder as I can see in 2-5 years if it catches on, even the obscene prices of CAMM coming down.