Question Can you order a CPU by design?

[TheFlash1300]

Can I have a designer CPU, if I have enough money to pay Intel, AMD, or another chip-maker? Is it possible to buy a machine that can make CPUs?

If I have software that is capable of operating only within certain hardware, which is no longer supported and the compatible CPUs and motherboards are discontinued, is there a chance to make producers produce those discontinued components just for me, despite the fact the components are discontinued and no one has produced any of them for years?

 

[Rogue Leader]

So, buying chip-making machine or designer components seems to be too expensive for now.

For now? For EVER. This is not a product thats eventually going to get cheaper.

I got another idea. Instead of paying for designer CPUs, is it possible to pay a chip-making company to re-program the CPU they already produce, so that CPU can be compatible with the software I want to use?

For example, if Intel core i-9 is not compatible with my OS, can I pay Intel to reprogram Intel core i-9 CPU, so it can become compatible with my OS, without having to produce completely new CPU, but rather using already existing CPU, a CPU they already produce, but just to change the code in the CPU, so it can become compatible with the OS?

Not a chance. You don't change the CPU for the software you change the software for the CPU.

Your use case is what emulators are for. You use more powerful hardware and run an emulator to simulate within the confines of the system the older lower powered hardware.

All this talk of making your own CPU is the hardest most expensive and impossible way of solving this problem.

 

[Colif]

While its possible for some people to make 32bit CPU

you probably need to be an engineer or similar to understand how

most people are happy just making an 8 bit one. that is an achievement.

 

[USAFRet]

Who is building 8-bit rigs nowadays? Do they run even games of the era ?

No one.
Those are just experimental hobby projects.
Nothing to actually 'use'.

 

[TheFlash1300]

Do you have the faintest idea of how many transistors are in a current Intel i9 CPU or Ryzen 7?

Don't look it up....give us your best guess.

There are billions of transistors. I know this without having to check on Google.

 

[TheFlash1300]

It's best to focus on things within the bounds of reality.

You seem to think that a homebrewed 8-bit or 16-bit CPU is akin to making a more powerful CPU that can run existing software; this is a bit like cutting an apple and deciding you're ready to perform a heart transplant.

You'll have a better chance of success becoming a billionaire and ordering a specialized run of CPUs. And that's not even a good option for what you're trying to do. You can almost certainly buy the original rights to the software and hire a team to program a new version for considerably less money.

Why wouldn't I work? Isn't a 32bit homemade CPU the same as 32bit commercial CPU? If both CPUs have the SE instructions, wouldn't the homemade one be as good as the commercial one?

 

[Colif]

For comparison, Intel's 4004 CPU had 2200 transistors, while the Z2 has 1200 and is built on the same process. What took a whole company to do in the 1970s is now being done by a single person in his own home.

Zeloof has shown that with the right amount of knowledge, it is possible to build your own integrated circuits right from home that can spar with the best--at least the best from the 1970s.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/man-builds-own-silicon-chip-at-home

make an 8 bit one first, once you do that... then try for more complicated. You are starting at the wrong end.

No way home made same as commercial simply for fact intel/amd/arm don't share the designs or tech around for free. It probably still copyrighted. So you have to make own designs.

 

[USAFRet]

Why wouldn't I work? Isn't a 32bit homemade CPU the same as 32bit commercial CPU? If both CPUs have the SE instructions, wouldn't the homemade one be as good as the commercial one?

No.

The above linked article, his 4004 replacement has 1,200 transistors.
For a current CPU, add 7 zeros to that.

So your previous statement of "a home-made Core i-9 won't be a small square, but a very large and bulky object surrounded by cables and indicators "
...is WAY off.

The size of a house maybe.

Then, it wouldn't work because it is too large. The electrical signals have too far to travel.
Yes, thats a thing.

Then, the embedded code. Whose going to write that...you?

You don't even know the right questions to ask, just to get started. Much less the answers.

 

[Ralston18]

This:

"I have a coding/game modding project related to an old video game. This is IT hobby. The problem is that the video game won't be compatible forever. Sooner or later, hardware will be too advanced and the OS the game is installed on and the game itself won't be able to run on new hardware. "

As has been asked: what old video game?

Maybe just rewrite the game code to take advantage of current hardware and OS's now available or in the future pipelines.

Plus, depending on circumstances and details, could you run the modding project using a VM on a newer computer?

 

[DSzymborski]

Why wouldn't I work? Isn't a 32bit homemade CPU the same as 32bit commercial CPU? If both CPUs have the SE instructions, wouldn't the homemade one be as good as the commercial one?

Here's the problem: I don't think you know what 32-bit means or how a CPU functions. Very few people can do this kind of thing and I guarantee that all of them do understand these things. I am quite confident that the guy who did hackaday.io also understands what drivers are and how operating systems work.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing things. We all have things we don't understand. I know I do. I may have a foggy enough bit of knowledge to understand what happens during heart surgery, but that doesn't mean I have the skillset to build my own artificial heart in my garage.

 

[Rogue Leader]

In case I need to just scream this from the rooftop once again, The solution to this problem is an emulator, or a virtual machine.

Making your own CPU for one game is literally the most impossible, prohibitively expensive way to solve this problem. There is no planet where this is in any way possible.

 

[DSzymborski]

In case I need to just scream this from the rooftop once again, The solution to this problem is an emulator, or a virtual machine.

Making your own CPU for one game is literally the most impossible, prohibitively expensive way to solve this problem. There is no planet where this is in any way possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World

 

[hotaru.hino]

Why wouldn't I work? Isn't a 32bit homemade CPU the same as 32bit commercial CPU? If both CPUs have the SE instructions, wouldn't the homemade one be as good as the commercial one?

No. Also even with commercial CPUs, some aren't as good as others despite running the same instruction set.

 

[thx1138v2]

Can I have a designer CPU, if I have enough money to pay Intel, AMD, or another chip-maker? Is it possible to buy a machine that can make CPUs?

If I have software that is capable of operating only within certain hardware, which is no longer supported and the compatible CPUs and motherboards are discontinued, is there a chance to make producers produce those discontinued components just for me, despite the fact the components are discontinued and no one has produced any of them for years?

First question: From who are you going to order it?

 

[Colif]

technically AMD & Intel might make one for you BUT you would need to order in quantities larger than 1 million or so to make it worthwhile. Say Console maker number of processors.

So an individual (who isn't Elon Musk) is unlikely to get their attention for a custom CPU. And unless he ordering a lot, he might struggle as well.

 

[hotaru.hino]

And even if you could convince AMD or Intel to make you a custom CPU, chances are you're not getting a completely new design. You're getting a mishmash of what they already have and can put together. Hence why AMD calls the division that does this "Semi-custom." You can't ask for a completely new part. You can only pick and choose what they offer and can glue together.

 

[USAFRet]

And even if you could convince AMD or Intel to make you a custom CPU, chances are you're not getting a completely new design. You're getting a mishmash of what they already have and can put together. Hence why AMD calls the division that does this "Semi-custom." You can't ask for a completely new part. You can only pick and choose what they offer and can glue together.

And we still have no idea what this SooperSekrit game software is.

 

[LinuxDevice]

So, FPGAs are motherboards with soldered COUs, and you can insert whatever instructions you want, then connect the FPGA to the computer, and you have FPGA that has the instructions of the hardware you need? The FPGA imitates an actual motherboard and processor. Did I get it correctly?

I would not call an FPGA a motherboard, and it isn't a CPU (though there might be a related CPU on the board). Often they are on a PCIe card. Think of them as having the elements which can be programmed to emulate other hardware. If you happen to design the logic to match the logic of a particular CPU, then it can virtually substitute for that hardware. To say this would take a stiff learning curve is likely an understatement, but it is a method available to people who cannot afford millions of dollars to build a custom CPU, and to which the actual CPU is not available. Once you have that "substitute" device though, you don't have a motherboard to mount it on, and so if you want to do something like install an operating system you might still fail. If you want the function of some hardware, and can interface it with your software, then it is possibly useful to you.

 

[helper800]

I majored in game design and was only 2 classes off from the degree. I can tell you that it would be easier, both monetarily and time wise, to make this game from scratch in Unity with C#. I had a rapid prototyping class towards the end and was teamed up with 3-4 other students and in 6 hours we could make playable versions of games like Minecraft, Castlevania, turn based final fantasy type games, et cetera. My advice is to stop trying to produce hardware to meet your goal of playing this game and learn to recreate the game to suite the hardware of now.

 

[TheFlash1300]

Then, it wouldn't work because it is too large. The electrical signals have too far to travel.
Yes, thats a thing.

Why too large? The person's CPU (shown in the video above) isn't too large.

Then, the embedded code. Whose going to write that...you?

From where did this person get his code?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzSaFFpBPDM

Plus, depending on circumstances and details, could you run the modding project using a VM on a newer computer?

I'm still researching the idea. I don't trust virtual machines, because I don't know how exactly they work. For example, from the perspective of the software, is there difference between virtual machine and physical computer? Will the software's functionality on VM be absolutely the same as it is in physical cmpiter?

And we still have no idea what this SooperSekrit game software is.

Its a GoldScr game.

I would not call an FPGA a motherboard, and it isn't a CPU (though there might be a related CPU on the board). Often they are on a PCIe card. Think of them as having the elements which can be programmed to emulate other hardware. If you happen to design the logic to match the logic of a particular CPU, then it can virtually substitute for that hardware. To say this would take a stiff learning curve is likely an understatement, but it is a method available to people who cannot afford millions of dollars to build a custom CPU, and to which the actual CPU is not available. Once you have that "substitute" device though, you don't have a motherboard to mount it on, and so if you want to do something like install an operating system you might still fail. If you want the function of some hardware, and can interface it with your software, then it is possibly useful to you.

So, in a nutshell, if my hardware fails and I can't find the same (compatible) hardware to replace the failed one and keep my software alive, I can simply design such logics that imitates the compatible motherboard and CPU, without bing actual motherboard and CPU, and my software will 'think" it's running on compatible hardware, and will continue to work? Did I get it correctly?

I majored in game design and was only 2 classes off from the degree. I can tell you that it would be easier, both monetarily and time wise, to make this game from scratch in Unity with C#. I had a rapid prototyping class towards the end and was teamed up with 3-4 other students and in 6 hours we could make playable versions of games like Minecraft, Castlevania, turn based final fantasy type games, et cetera. My advice is to stop trying to produce hardware to meet your goal of playing this game and learn to recreate the game to suite the hardware of now.

When it comes to coding, I'm good only at Pawn. I don't know any othe scripting languages, and i don't know how to make a game compatible with newer operating systems. For now, the GoldScr game is working fine on Windows 10 and 11, but i don't know how many more Windows editions will be until it becomes non-compatible.

 

[USAFRet]

Why too large? The person's CPU (shown in the video above) isn't too large.

And it runs at 500kHz.
Current systems run thousands of times faster than that.

From where did this person get his code?

He wrote it.

I don't trust virtual machines, because I don't know how exactly they work.

You don't know how physical computers work either.

When it comes to coding, I'm good only at Pawn. I don't know any othe scripting languages, and i don't know how to make a game compatible with newer operating systems.

Then you're certainly not capable of designing, building,coding a CPU and all the associated things for it.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldSrc
"GoldSrc is a proprietary game engine developed by Valve. At its core, GoldSrc is a heavily modified version of id Software's Quake engine. "
Also Half Life and Team Fortress.

So basically Quake I.

So here's a project that might be within your abilities...

Quake on a Raspberry Pi:

Play Quake 3 Arena on the Raspberry Pi

Classic game brought back alive

pimylifeup.com

Can You Play Quake 3 on a Raspberry Pi? And how?

Quake 3 is a first-person shooter released in 1999 that many people of my generation remember as the beginning of a new era for video games on personal computers. But running Quake 3 on random

raspberrytips.com

https://github.com/welford/qurp

If Quake will run on a Pi, your mad skillz should be able to get your project running on it as well.


Alternate solution...
Buy several current Win 10/11 compatible systems and components.
Vacuum bag and put in storage for "later".

 

[TheFlash1300]

And it runs at 500kHz.
Current systems run thousands of times faster than that.

I don't need current systems. I can happily operate with older operating systems.

The GoldScr game was developed during the Windows XP era, and was designed for Windows XP. Although the game is perfectly compatible with newer than XP versions, including win10 and 11, it isn't compatible with Windows editions before XP.

Since i need a computer specifically for this task of modding the game, i need hardware that is powerful enough to handle Windows XP and Windows 7, without having to be able to handle newer versions. Windows XP and 7 are the only operating systems i need for my project.

Let's say i want to run my project on Windows XP. Basically, i need a CPU that is 1GHz to run Windows XP smoothly. So, is it possible to make a homemade CPU that is as powerful as Intel Pentium Dual-Core? Intel Pentium Dual-Core is the CPU that is good for Windows XP and can run my project.

If i want to make a homemade CPU of 800MHz or 2.4GHz, how big would it be? Did you watch the video i showed you? If i want to make such a CPU that isnt 500kHZ, but at least 800Mhz, how big woiild the CPU be?

He wrote it.

If i want to make a homemade CPU that behaves exactly like Pentium Dual-Core E2220 , would it be possible to use the same instructions Intel used in Pentium Dual-Core E2220 , or are the instructions copyrighted? The instructions have to be able to run Windows XP and the GoldScr engine. Since instructions of new CPUs cant do that, i need instructions of old CPUs, CPUS produced during the Windows XP times.

You don't know how physical computers work either.

I know.

Then you're certainly not capable of designing, building,coding a CPU and all the associated things for it.

The lack of hardware is what will motivate me to learn how to code my own CPU. The problem is that i didn't even know making homemade CPUs is possible. I learned about homemade CPUs just a few days ago, so I'm very new in this area, which is why i don't know a lot.

If Quake will run on a Pi, your mad skillz should be able to get your project running on it as well.

I prefer standard computers.

Alternate solution...
Buy several current Win 10/11 compatible systems and components.
Vacuum bag and put in storage for "later".

Yeah... this is what I'm planning to do.

Here is what I'm planning to buy:

5x Intel Core i-5
10x LGA 1155

CPUs last around 20 years.
Motherboards last around 10 years.

Having 5 CPUs and 10 motherboards will ensure my project will be kept alive for at least 100 more years, or even 200 more years if components don't fail. I hope that 200 years from now, electronics will be more customizable, meaning i will be able to easily produce my own CPUs and motherboards that are compatible with my project. If i learn better coding methods and learn how to make my project compatible with newer operating systems, that would be amazing. But for now, i don't know such a level of coding, so i will just buy several components to ensure the long-term survival of my hobby project.

QUESTION: If i don't keep the components in vacuum bags, but keep them unpacked, they will still survive for a long time, right?

If you have better suggestions than buying hardware, share them with me.

By the way, I'm very interested in building my own CPUs. I just need to learn how to make CPUs that behave like Pentium Dual-Core E2220 and have the same instructions, guaranteeing they are as good and reliable as the actual Pentium Dual-Core E2220 CPU, and will nicely run the software, just like Pentium Dual-Core E2220 would do.

I'm open to ideas and suggestions on how to build homemade CPUs of at least 1GHz.

Thanks.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I'm open to ideas and suggestions on how to build homemade CPUs of at least 1GHz.

I don't know how many times we can tell you this.

This is not possible.

 

[TheFlash1300]

I don't know how many times we can tell you this.

This is not possible.

Why not? If i install enough transistors, why won't my CPU achieve 1GHz?

 

[Rogue Leader]

Why not? If i install enough transistors, why won't my CPU achieve 1GHz?

Because just for example a Pentium III processor at 1 GHZ has 9.5 MILLION transistors.

They are all microscopic and built on a specialized multi million dollar machine, of which the tooling to make it has been long tossed in the trash.

Ok so can you collect 9.5 million transistors and hand soldier them together? I'd like to see you try. AND THEN, if you were to find (or make somehow) a board that could hold 9.5 million transistors, the traces between them would be so long the processor wouldn't even work, because of the physical distance between one end of the board and the other.

So, again, NO.

 

[TheFlash1300]

Because just for example a Pentium III processor at 1 GHZ has 9.5 MILLION transistors.

They are all microscopic and built on a specialized multi million dollar machine, of which the tooling to make it has been long tossed in the trash.

Ok so can you collect 9.5 million transistors and hand soldier them together? I'd like to see you try. AND THEN, if you were to find (or make somehow) a board that could hold 9.5 million transistors, the traces between them would be so long the processor wouldn't even work, because of the physical distance between one end of the board and the other.

So, again, NO.

If it's impossible to make homemade CPUs, how did the person in the video successfully make such CPUs?