Question Can't change bios settings unless I clear CMOS first. Possessed bios?

Sep 10, 2022
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Ok, so I know my bios is not possessed, but it still is acting up.
Every time I change bios settings, my computer stops showing any signs of life. I have to clear CMOS and re apply the settings for it to actually apply anything and boot.
In detail:
  1. I set fan speed curves in bios
  2. I click save and reboot
  3. system shuts off, and then system turns on and outputs no video, no peripherals receive power, no MOBO diagnostic lights. The only signs of anything happening are the case power led lights and fans cycle up and down.
  4. the computer does not respond to reset or power switch, so I need to turn off the power supply, clear CMOS, then turn it and the system back on.
  5. I re-apply the bios settings I have, and re-apply my fan curve changes and the system is works and boots to windows.
My CMOS battery is fine, and the computer runs perfectly fine otherwise, just farts too hard whenever I mess with bios.
system stuff:
5600g (Ryzen master auto OC and curve optimizer with positive offset)
16Gb T-force Vulcan ram (ran extensive windows memory diagnostics without any error so it's not ram)
XFX 6650xt (decent OC work, but I know that it is stable)
MSI B550M PRO-VDH WIFI Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard
Normally, I would just deal with having to clear CMOS, but as the battery is directly under my GPU it's become quite an issue and takes a lot of finesse with a screwdriver with tape on the end to put back in.
Is this a common issue? Or, does anyone else have any ideas for how to solve this?

EDIT:
since the CMOS battery is underneath the GPU I can't really see it, so it the off chance that it isn't fully pressed in what would the computer be acting like?
I want to make sure it's not something really stupid like that.
 
Last edited:

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)? History of heavy use for gaming, video editing, or even bitcoin mining?

= = = =

After clearing CMOS (do so per the motherboard's User Guide/Manual - there may be a more accessible jumper) do not make any BIOS changes or other changes at all beyond what is needed to achieve a successful boot.

Then, being very careful and methodical, start implementing the BIOS changes that you wish to make. Start with the changes that are most important to you.

However, make only one change at time and wait a couple of successful boots before making another change.

The objective being to determine if one particular change causes the computer to stop working.

And in between changes monitor Reliability History and Event Viewer for some error code, warnings, or even an informational event that starts showing up in the logs.

= = = =

JBAT1

This motherboard? (Do confirm that I found the applicable User Manual.)

https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/E7C95v1.7.pdf

Not sure if JBAT1 is more accessible than the CMOS battery but take a look.

Also reference physically numbered Page 28 regarding DIMM installation, Note that DIMMA2 must be the first physically installed RAM.

Another thing: Starting on Page 43 review all BIOS settings to be sure that the settings are correct. And do certain, once a change is made, that you save, approve, okay, "yes", or otherwise confirm that the change is to be made. Otherwise the change will be forgotten at next power down.
 

Karadjgne

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Ambassador
Have you updated the bios. If so, have you also updated in order, installing the media files as well, when required for the G series APU's? Many times it's the version differences when applied to OC levels, that's anything changed beyond stock, like A-XMP, that'll bunk up a pc.
 
Sep 10, 2022
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Have you updated the bios. If so, have you also updated in order, installing the media files as well, when required for the G series APU's? Many times it's the version differences when applied to OC levels, that's anything changed beyond stock, like A-XMP, that'll bunk up a pc.
Yes, bios is up-to date, I will check that it is once again tho.
What do you mean by media files for the aGPU?
I use Ryzen master for CPU, and adrenaline for GPU, is that the media your talking about?
 
Sep 10, 2022
11
0
10
0
PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)? History of heavy use for gaming, video editing, or even bitcoin mining?

= = = =

After clearing CMOS (do so per the motherboard's User Guide/Manual - there may be a more accessible jumper) do not make any BIOS changes or other changes at all beyond what is needed to achieve a successful boot.

Then, being very careful and methodical, start implementing the BIOS changes that you wish to make. Start with the changes that are most important to you.

However, make only one change at time and wait a couple of successful boots before making another change.

The objective being to determine if one particular change causes the computer to stop working.

And in between changes monitor Reliability History and Event Viewer for some error code, warnings, or even an informational event that starts showing up in the logs.

= = = =

JBAT1

This motherboard? (Do confirm that I found the applicable User Manual.)

https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/E7C95v1.7.pdf

Not sure if JBAT1 is more accessible than the CMOS battery but take a look.

Also reference physically numbered Page 28 regarding DIMM installation, Note that DIMMA2 must be the first physically installed RAM.

Another thing: Starting on Page 43 review all BIOS settings to be sure that the settings are correct. And do certain, once a change is made, that you save, approve, okay, "yes", or otherwise confirm that the change is to be made. Otherwise the change will be forgotten at next power down.
BIG thanks: that JBAT1 jumper is a lifesaver, huge thanks for spitting that in the manual, I read right through it. yes, that's my MOBO.

DIMMs: the DIMMs are all installed in the correct spots and both register and function properly, do I need to remove DIMMB2 and re-boot? (adding it back in afterwards)

BIOS: I know that all of my bios settings work B/c I am using the computer right now with the settings. let me explain: I CAN use the settings, I just need to clear CMOS first so that it saves them and doesn't go doodoo it's shorts.

Looking for windows error codes: I spotted two that seemed to be causing issues, one is 0xC0000022, which probably was (by looking at time/dates) me fudging up driver installation for my GPU. I eventually figured it out and I don't see it coning up anytime more recently. The second code is 0xC0000035, which leads me to believe my WIFI chip was stuck on old rivers, so I updated it (though I doubt it's the cause).

BIOS settings: yes, the bios works, the settings are right. (if MOBOS come with correct settings by default)

Looking at reliability history: there were some application crashes, but it says that there have been multiple failed windows updates. I will check that windows is up to date, but that should not be the reason the computer blacks out.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
The DIMM slot requirement is that DIMMA2 must be the first physically installed RAM. So all RAM must be removed and then start with DIMMA2.

And this: "My CMOS battery is fine" - maybe not. Especially if you have to reapply the settings.

Any time and date issues? Where is the computer getting its' date and time? Or are you having to manually reset the the time and date?

FYI:

Setting Time and Date Link.

There are many other similar links.

You may need to try another new/known working CMOS battery. Should be the standard CR2032 battery - check to be sure.

Take a few minutes to print out the UEFI BIOS Chapter. Pages 43-59 inclusive.

Work through each item making the appropriate notes regarding the current working configuration. Be sure that you correctly save the BIOS settings via some "Save", "Okay", "Yes", etc..

Then after your next forced clearing of BIOS go through the settings to discover what, if anything changed.

Also regarding the WIFI chip. Are you sure that only one network adapter, either wired or wireless, is enabled? Not both at the same time.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
You are running Ryzen Master Auto OC and CO. My assumption would be there's an issue with that and the cmos settings being wiped out with the reset. Which get reapplied at windows load. I'm not sold on the idea that it's a hardware issue or possessed bios, but a corrupted/conflicted cmos would definitely cause your issues.

Try not running the Ryzen Master OC at all and see if that has any affect on shutdowns/restarts.
 
Reactions: Ralston18
Sep 10, 2022
11
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The DIMM slot requirement is that DIMMA2 must be the first physically installed RAM. So all RAM must be removed and then start with DIMMA2.

And this: "My CMOS battery is fine" - maybe not. Especially if you have to reapply the settings.

Any time and date issues? Where is the computer getting its' date and time? Or are you having to manually reset the the time and date?

FYI:

Setting Time and Date Link.

There are many other similar links.

You may need to try another new/known working CMOS battery. Should be the standard CR2032 battery - check to be sure.

Take a few minutes to print out the UEFI BIOS Chapter. Pages 43-59 inclusive.

Work through each item making the appropriate notes regarding the current working configuration. Be sure that you correctly save the BIOS settings via some "Save", "Okay", "Yes", etc..

Then after your next forced clearing of BIOS go through the settings to discover what, if anything changed.

Also regarding the WIFI chip. Are you sure that only one network adapter, either wired or wireless, is enabled? Not both at the same time.
Just to quickly clarify, this is a new computer and the power supply is an evga 650W gold fully modular, I use it for gaming, but occasionally I use it for rendering and modeling.

there shouldn't be any reason that I would need to install one stick of ram before the other, just so long as they are in the correct spots. For two sticks it's DIMMA2 and DIMMB2. l shouldn't need to uninstall both to just put them back in in a specific order.

I have checked the CMOS battery with a battery tester and it reads exactly the same as any other cr2032 battery. Please take my word that it's fine.

I only have one WIFI chip, the intel dual band wireless-ac 3168. I, just today, updated it's drivers.

I had date and time issues at one point, but I am pretty certain that it was due to not seating the battery properly or bad WIFI drivers, the computer is synced now and seems fine.

Because you keep pushing for it, I will go through and verify, painstakingly, that every setting is correct in my BIOS.

I'll keep you posted on the bios settings.
 
Sep 10, 2022
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You are running Ryzen Master Auto OC and CO. My assumption would be there's an issue with that and the cmos settings being wiped out with the reset. Which get reapplied at windows load. I'm not sold on the idea that it's a hardware issue or possessed bios, but a corrupted/conflicted cmos would definitely cause your issues.

Try not running the Ryzen Master OC at all and see if that has any affect on shutdowns/restarts.
are you sure that having CO and aOC both active will cause instability?
I specifically made sure to run Curve Optimizer after OC so that it would optimize the CPU for OC. Afterwards I also applied a small offset value to the Curve Optimizer so that it gave the CPU extra headroom for power, guaranteeing stability. There have been no signs of instability after numerous stress tests and plenty of games.

The issue isn't shutdowns or restarts, it's that when I apply settings for bios, it stops responding after power on, showing no MOBO lights and only turning on the fans and case power led. No display output and no peripheral power.
After clearing CMOS and re applying the bios settings it refused before, windows boots and all of my drivers' settings are still there, as well as the bios settings I applied (checked by re-starting and opening bios on startup).
What you're getting at is that there's a conflict between my drivers and MOBO BIOS?
 
Sep 10, 2022
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UPDATE: My BIOS was one version behind, after flashing it to the most recent version I have successfully applied fan settings, saved them, and booted into windows without needing to clear CMOS. (yay)
I will keep you posted as I go through and one-by one apply the bios settings I use.
upon checking event viewer:
errors:
WORKGROUP\DESKTOP-PRME6NK$ put out an error, saying
"{"Message":"The authority \"amd-keyid-578c545f796951421221a4a578acdb5f682f89c8.microsoftaik.azure.net\" does not exist."}
HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found"
all prior errors also seem to be the same.
warnings:
A connection to the Windows Metadata and Internet Services (WMIS) could not be established.
A connection to the Windows Update service could not be established.
The Network List Manager reports no connectivity to the internet.
WLAN Extensibility Module has stopped. Module Path: C:\Windows\system32\IntelIHVRouter04.dll
It seems like the WIFI card takes a second to start up and windows is annoyed about it.

nothing weird in reliability history.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Regarding:

". l shouldn't need to uninstall both to just put them back in in a specific order. "

Except for (from the Motherboard's User Manual, Page 28):

"
28 Overview of Components
DIMM Slots
DIMMA1 DIMMB1
Channel A Channel B
DIMMA2 DIMMB2
Memory module installation recommendation
⚠ Important

Always insert memory modules in the DIMMA2 slot first.


And with BIOS settings and battery being okay it now appears to be narrowing down to network/network adapter problems.

Verify that only one network adapter, either wired or wireless as applicable, is enabled.

May be buggy or corrupted files.

Try running the built in Windows trouble shooters - the trouble shooters may find and fix something.

Also try "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

References:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

to use DISM command tool to repair Windows 10 image | Windows Central

If necessary do you have access to a known working network adapter for further test purposes?
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
I'm still trying to figure out the redundancy. Why bother with bios settings being changed when you further change them as soon as windows loads with the RM and AOC and CO.

When you shutdown windows, anything in the ram is written to cmos/storage as part of fastboot (honestly redundant with ssd/nvme boot speeds). That'll include anything RM has sitting resident in the Ram. Then you change bios manually and reboot. Now you have conflicts, especially concerning the ram. If you then turn off the pc, clearing cmos, that's a Reset, not a windows startup, it does not use any saved cmos or storage settings, those get wiped and bypassed, so bios has to re-recognise all hardware from scratch and windows loads clean.

You have the pc going in circles with changes from multiple directions. Take it as Gospel that Any software OC of any sort is not fully stable for startup/boot settings since boot is a 50ish% load on the entire pc, whereas a software OC is only applicable to certain parts and testing only uses certain parts.
 
Sep 10, 2022
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I'm still trying to figure out the redundancy. Why bother with bios settings being changed when you further change them as soon as windows loads with the RM and AOC and CO.

When you shutdown windows, anything in the ram is written to cmos/storage as part of fastboot (honestly redundant with ssd/nvme boot speeds). That'll include anything RM has sitting resident in the Ram. Then you change bios manually and reboot. Now you have conflicts, especially concerning the ram. If you then turn off the pc, clearing cmos, that's a Reset, not a windows startup, it does not use any saved cmos or storage settings, those get wiped and bypassed, so bios has to re-recognise all hardware from scratch and windows loads clean.

You have the pc going in circles with changes from multiple directions. Take it as Gospel that Any software OC of any sort is not fully stable for startup/boot settings since boot is a 50ish% load on the entire pc, whereas a software OC is only applicable to certain parts and testing only uses certain parts.
Ok, so I should disable fast boot, keeping the ram out of the mix. I have a Samsung 980 so it shouldn't make much difference toward boot times. As of now I can mess with bios settings without hiccups so it was most likely the bios version being behind by one (I updated it yesterday).
I'm going to disable Ryzen master's memory control. Every time I've messed with Ryzen master and hit apply it would also say that I was applying memory changes as well. Now that you describe what the issue is this all checks out, RM was fighting the bios, so I will disable the settings that were causing the conflict.
 
Sep 10, 2022
11
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Regarding:

". l shouldn't need to uninstall both to just put them back in in a specific order. "

Except for (from the Motherboard's User Manual, Page 28):

"
28 Overview of Components
DIMM Slots
DIMMA1 DIMMB1
Channel A Channel B
DIMMA2 DIMMB2
Memory module installation recommendation
⚠ Important

Always insert memory modules in the DIMMA2 slot first.


And with BIOS settings and battery being okay it now appears to be narrowing down to network/network adapter problems.

Verify that only one network adapter, either wired or wireless as applicable, is enabled.

May be buggy or corrupted files.

Try running the built in Windows trouble shooters - the trouble shooters may find and fix something.

Also try "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

References:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

to use DISM command tool to repair Windows 10 image | Windows Central

If necessary do you have access to a known working network adapter for further test purposes?
I'm fairly certain that Karadjgne hit the nail on the head, but as redundancy is king I will have to ask, how specifically do I find out if I have two network devices? I only see the one in device manager.
Additionally, on running sfc scannow I got this "Windows Resource Protection found corrupt files but was unable to fix some of them."
According to Microsoft: "When you run this command, DISM uses Windows Update to provide the files that are required to fix corruptions". Ima apply this update and run it again for a more clear logfile.
UPDATE: ran DSIM commands without any issues.
UPDATE 2: electric boogalo: after running DSIM, sfc/scannow returns that "Windows Resource Protection found corrupt files and successfully repaired them."
 
Last edited:

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Re: Two network adapters enabled....

Run "ipconfig /all" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt and post the results.

In Device Manager > View ensure that "Show hidden devices" is checked.

Plus I agree with @Karadjgne - you have the PC going in circles.

Focus on methodically changing only one thing at a time and also allowing some time between changes,
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Does your mobo have Wi-Fi capability? If so, it'll probably be picking that up as a network device as well as the ethernet port.

I find Ryzen Master to be an OK Tool, something to be used so I can test settings without having to constantly reboot. Similar to Asus Turbo-V or any of the other motherboard 'Tuning' software. But thats as far as it goes, a temporary use tool. I'm not a fan of using it full time to obtain a windows version of OC, I'd rather take the results and manually apply them to bios. If the bios gives me errors, it's a simple matter to reset the bios, or allow 3x boots and bios will reset itself vs trying to get back into windows with Ryzen Master settings already applied and trying to halt or disable all that in order to affect a better setting.

It's a matter of ownership. If I setup bios for OC, it's My OC, the pc will behave according to My directions. A Ryzen Master OC means the pc bahaves according to Ryzen Master and whatever tweaks It decides to do behind the scenes that you have Zero control over.
 
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Sep 10, 2022
11
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Re: Two network adapters enabled....

Run "ipconfig /all" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt and post the results.

In Device Manager > View ensure that "Show hidden devices" is checked.

Plus I agree with @Karadjgne - you have the PC going in circles.

Focus on methodically changing only one thing at a time and also allowing some time between changes,
I may not want to put that on the web as it's all my internet address info and stuff. The Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 3168 is the only one that doesn't read "Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected". They all have dhcp and autoconfiguration enabled, but only the intel wifi chip is reading out info on connections and such.
In device manager (with show hidden devices on) there are 8 wan miniports(with things like ip and ipv6 in parenthesis next to them), a Realtek PCIe GbE family controller, four Microsoft WIFI direct virtual adapters(two of which are disconnected), Microsoft kernel debug network adapter, Bluetooth device(personal area network), and the Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 3168. I noticed that for some of these windows says that I can disable powering them off to save power automatically, do I want to disable this for anything?
 
Sep 10, 2022
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Does your mobo have Wi-Fi capability? If so, it'll probably be picking that up as a network device as well as the ethernet port.

I find Ryzen Master to be an OK Tool, something to be used so I can test settings without having to constantly reboot. Similar to Asus Turbo-V or any of the other motherboard 'Tuning' software. But thats as far as it goes, a temporary use tool. I'm not a fan of using it full time to obtain a windows version of OC, I'd rather take the results and manually apply them to bios. If the bios gives me errors, it's a simple matter to reset the bios, or allow 3x boots and bios will reset itself vs trying to get back into windows with Ryzen Master settings already applied and trying to halt or disable all that in order to affect a better setting.

It's a matter of ownership. If I setup bios for OC, it's My OC, the pc will behave according to My directions. A Ryzen Master OC means the pc bahaves according to Ryzen Master and whatever tweaks It decides to do behind the scenes that you have Zero control over.
For sure, once I settle on a oc with Ryzen Master, I'll move it to the bios and continue from there instead.
 

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