Question Can't get XMP to work on Neo Forza MARS 32GB (4x16GB)

rasmasyean

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Hi,

I bought 2 of these dual kits to make 64GB:
Neo Forza MARS 32GB (2x16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) RGB SDRAM Desktop Memory Model NMGD416E82-4400GF20 - Newegg.com

to put into this motherboard:
MSI MAG Z590 TOMAHAWK WIFI LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

The XMP 2 at 3600 seems to work.
The XMP 1 at 4400 doesn't work with a "overclock failed" message.

I updated the BIOS, reseated the RAM, and tried a couple of times.

What can I do? The reviews seem to suggest many people can't get this to work at the advertised PC 4400.
Is this just marketing scheme? Should I return it?

Thanks.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
The problem is most likely because you bought two kits. Try each kit by itself, and it's VERY important that you don't mix them up. Use ONLY DIMMs that came together. You can find the revision number for each kit on the sticker on the DIMMs themselves so that you know which two belong with which two.

Install one kit of two DIMMs, again, being sure they are from the same kit, into the A2 and B2 slots which are the second and fourth slots over from the CPU socket. Flip the switch on the PSU to the "0" position, then install the DIMMs, then remove the CMOS battery for five minutes. During that five minutes press the power button for 10-20 seconds continuously. Then after the five minutes reinstall the CMOS battery. Flip the PSU switch back to the on position. Power on, go into the BIOS, load the Default or Optimal default values, save settings and exit BIOS.

Then go back into the BIOS, enable XMP, save settings and exit BIOS. Then upon restart if the system attempts to cycle through restarting a few times, allow it to do so as it may be training the memory's secondary and tertiary timings. See if you still get error message. If so, try the other kit using the exact same process, and it IS important that you do not just "partly" follow the process. Follow it EXACTLY as outlined.

Off the top of my head, as I said, the problem is very possibly due to the use of two separate kits regardless of whether they are the same model or not. This is why it doesn't matter if they are the same model:

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/amd-ram-compatibility.3210050/#post-19785792


And THIS, is why THAT, matters. Please read section two titled "Mixed memory":



Also, what are your FULL hardware specifications including exact model of CPU, motherboard, motherboard BIOS version, exact power supply model, and any other core hardware including graphics card model.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Disable XMP in the BIOS. Save settings, shut down, install the other two sticks, power up and go back into the BIOS.

Enable XMP, BUT, bump the DRAM voltage up by .05v or whatever the lowest increment it will allow you to increase it by is. Often it doesn't take a lot of extra voltage to stabilize the system when four DIMMs are installed. Running four DIMMs is often problematic on a variety of platforms ESPECIALLY when running two kits together because the specs for those kits are assuming those are the only sticks installed. So a 2 x32GB kit with an advertised 1.35v is usually going to need a little more voltage when you install a second kit. And of course, this is all assuming that the DIMMs in use are even validated for that board by the board manufacturer or the memory manufacturer.

There sometimes is a lot to what makes something work or not work when it comes to memory operations and I for sure am not some memory genius, but I have pretty fair experience in HOW components work together in real world applications.

In any case, what you need to try to do is not much, if any different from trying to overclock memory because the process of bumping the voltage and testing for stability will be much the same. I would highly encourage you to read my memory article. It's not going to make you a genius any more than I am, that's for sure, but there might be some information in that that is good to know and could help you with this process as much of what needs to be done is outlined in there already.

I posted it before, but I'll post it again because honestly I think it is helpful to anybody who is trying to just get a good basic grasp on memory configurations, general tweaking and how to go about testing stability after you've made changes, and you SHOULD always test stability if you deviate from the default configuration or XMP profile, by changing anything manually.



Again, it would be helpful to know your full hardware specs.
 
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rasmasyean

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ahha...I just checked CPU-Z and it said the RAM is dual rank.
  • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4400+
  • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000+
I suppose this means it's not even gonna get close.

darn. :(
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Why? Your board specifies "4000+".

That doesn't mean that it can never support above 4000 mhz, it just means you'll probably have to do some tweaking in order to get it to do so because it's not going to do it automatically most probably especially since you have a few things going against you.

For one, you have two kits, instead of one, which makes it even tougher for the board to find timings that ALL of the DIMMs will play nice with since they are two kits instead of one, which would have likely been better matched through testing.

Two, the XMP settings for those kits are only advertised as is for users that are JUST using the two DIMMs that come in each kit. Not WITH another kit or other DIMMs. So some amount of tweaking the speed, voltage and timings will certainly be necessary when using four DIMMs. And that is quite often true for four DIMM population even when it IS a 4 DIMM kit that all came together. It is just more difficult to get four DIMMs to operate at the desired speed on pretty much any two channel platform than it is for a 2 DIMM configuration.

After you updated the BIOS, did you reset the BIOS before trying these DIMMs? If you did not, I would at least try to do so as bits of microcode often linger after doing a BIOS update if you don't reset.

BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for about three to five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes while the CMOS battery is out of the motherboard, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 15-30 seconds, in order to deplete any residual charge that might be present in the CMOS circuit. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the BIOS to fully reset and force recreation of the hardware tables.



Lastly, as I mentioned in my last post, and here, you probably may need to use some additional voltage. Even the review of that kit shows they had to in order to just get a two DIMM kit to run at the XMP profile.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/neo-forza-faye-ddr4-4400-mhz-cl19-2x16-gb/8.html
 
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rasmasyean

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I also noticed the 4 DIMM setup makes them super close to each other. Given that one has to increase the voltage on top of that, would that present an issue and perhaps affect stability and/or lifespan?
 

rasmasyean

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Well, personally I think...they should place the CPU more rear, closer to the connectors which don't need that huge box with stuff over there, and have the DIMM slots horizontal. This way the airflow of the CPU fan will drag air across the entire DIMM bank more evenly as well as create a higher pressure out the rear. But I suppose there are old standards and compatibility with legacy parts that continue the cycle. :p

Anyways, I decided to mix the kit sticks to see what happens. They still seem to work at the advertised 4400. So far I did a memtest86 on an older computer where I installed an unmatching duo and it's OK.
ASUS PRIME Z490-A Intel Z490 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

I'm running the memtest86 on the new computer right now. God it takes a long time. lol

Does this seem prommising? Or is it irrelevant to whether I can clock both kits together near 4400?
 
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Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
What you "think" is not based in factual engineering. No offense of course, however, termination rules and what happens with signals towards the end of a circuit, WAY and MUCH and TOTALLY, determine why and how things get placed where they do. AND, that is the ONLY reason they do. No offense but until you understand things fully, like what is required for an acceptable level of signal degradation, you won't understand WHY they do things the way they do them. We COULD put things differently, but it would suck, and understanding WHY it would suck is a lot more important than assumptions regarding why COMPANIES suck for not doing it.
 
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rasmasyean

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Oh well...
I bumped the voltage all the way up to 1.6V like in that review article and both the computers didn't like the 4 sticks at 4400. I suppose I should be glad both can handle 2 sticks at the XMP setting of just 1.45V. I guess I don't really need 64GB anyway. lol

If a Motherboard has a Clear CMOS Jumper, is it the same as taking out the battery (behind the Video Card or wherever)?
 
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Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
It's not the same, exactly. In some cases using the Clear CMOS button (For boards that have one) or using the Clear CMOS jumper pins MIGHT accomplish what you want to accomplish by clearing the CMOS/BIOS but sometimes it won't. And the reason it sometimes won't is because so long as you still have power connected to the board by way of the power supply and/or the CMOS battery is still installed and you haven't disconnected those sources of power and then pressed the power button to dissipate any remaining residual power there is a chance that some settings might be retained or some bits of microcode remain.

That is WHY I created that specific outline for doing a hard reset of the BIOS, because simply taking the easy route and doing a clear cmos via button or jumper pin does not always work.

If we're being honest, I'm going to say I'd recommend returning those sticks and getting another set of G.SKill sticks or a set of Corsair Dominator platinum sticks. I don't like the Neo Forza sticks and I've seen a number of people who've had trouble with them both here and elsewhere. But, if you are happy with just getting 32GB to work, then that's your call.

Personally, I'd recommend getting a set of Trident Z 2 x32GB 4400mhz sticks and return the Neo Forza if you can.

PCPartPicker Part List

Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-4400 CL19 Memory ($339.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $339.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-12-04 21:57 EST-0500



Or, just return them, and use your old sticks. The fact is, the difference in performance between 4000mhz and 4400mhz is only about at ten percent difference anyhow, so the fact is you're not losing much as that's ten percent of MEMORY performance, not ten percent of total performance.
 
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