Question Can't see QoS in my secondary router

WrongRookie

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My Secondary router is set as an AP and I can't see the QoS setting in the router. The name of the router is Asus RT-AC53. How do I tell if this router supports it or doesn't?
 

USAFRet

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My Secondary router is set as an AP and I can't see the QoS setting in the router. The name of the router is Asus RT-AC53. How do I tell if this router supports it or doesn't?
Why are you looking to implement QoS on a secondary router?
A secondary router should be just configured as an access point. As dumb and basic as possible. No functionality beyond a second WiFi source.

Why are you looking to implement QoS at all?
 

WrongRookie

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Why are you looking to implement QoS on a secondary router?
A secondary router should be just configured as an access point. As dumb and basic as possible. No functionality beyond a second WiFi source.

Why are you looking to implement QoS at all?
Because incase the router doesn't give me the speeds I need for the things that I would need it, I would like the QoS. Like something I want to set control off.
 
A AP will never queue traffic. QoS is purely a method to select between traffic that must be queued/delayed. So first you must have the delay to start with.

A AP is a pretty simple device it takes things from the wifi chip and puts it on the ethernet cable. There is no ability to do any form of QoS on the wifi signals themselves.

Pretty much the only place you would ever see a queue in your network is to the internet. QoS is more of a bandaid when you can not buy more bandwidth. Most internet connections are so large now days you seldom get bottlenecks and if you are bottlenecking a very large internet connection home routers do not have enough cpu power to run the QoS options without greatly degrading the performance.
 

gggplaya

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QOS is only on the main router which regulates the internet access.

What is the model of your main router? What is your internet plan speed? The AC53 doesn't have good firmware available. But if you had the AC56, you could run Merlin which has traffic shaping QOS algorithms. These work really well, but depending on the CPU of the router, can only traffic shape up to 200-400mbps. Again, it would need to be your main router, or you can run it as a double NAT router, however you may run into issues while trying to connect to game servers and things like that. https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/
 

WrongRookie

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A AP will never queue traffic. QoS is purely a method to select between traffic that must be queued/delayed. So first you must have the delay to start with.

A AP is a pretty simple device it takes things from the wifi chip and puts it on the ethernet cable. There is no ability to do any form of QoS on the wifi signals themselves.

Pretty much the only place you would ever see a queue in your network is to the internet. QoS is more of a bandaid when you can not buy more bandwidth. Most internet connections are so large now days you seldom get bottlenecks and if you are bottlenecking a very large internet connection home routers do not have enough cpu power to run the QoS options without greatly degrading the performance.
Ok so then is there ever any real benefit turning a second router as an AP other than it being AP? Is it pointless to update its firmware if its at AP? Do I still need to replace the secondary router even if its under AP?

QOS is only on the main router which regulates the internet access.

What is the model of your main router? What is your internet plan speed? The AC53 doesn't have good firmware available. But if you had the AC56, you could run Merlin which has traffic shaping QOS algorithms. These work really well, but depending on the CPU of the router, can only traffic shape up to 200-400mbps. Again, it would need to be your main router, or you can run it as a double NAT router, however you may run into issues while trying to connect to game servers and things like that. https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/
The model of the main router is TP-Link Archer A7 1750. I take it that only Asus routers are eligible for Merlin?
 

gggplaya

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Ok so then is there ever any real benefit turning a second router as an AP other than it being AP? Is it pointless to update its firmware if its at AP? Do I still need to replace the secondary router even if its under AP?
It's still worth it to update firmware. But an access point is just a device that allows you to access the LAN via wifi. The main router then handles all the duties of being a router, including DHCP assignment and NAT translation. There is a huge benefit of using it as an AP, in that the main router handles all the routing duties, so you aren't double NATing and causing unnecessary complications in your network which could lead to issues opening ports and connecting to websites and servers.

The model of the main router is TP-Link Archer A7 1750. I take it that only Asus routers are eligible for Merlin?
I think you can install OPENWRT on that router, possibly DDWRT, you would need to check your hardware revision. But these firmwares aren't as intuitive as Asus firmware. The reason Merlin exists is because Asus uses openwrt open license firmware. Being OPEN software requires Asus to published their modified version of the firmware periodically. Merlin takes this firmware and brings in a few other openwrt libraries to make a tweaked customized version with more options. This includes FQ_Codel and CAKE QOS traffic shaping algorithms. Search these on youtube for an explaination.
 

WrongRookie

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It's still worth it to update firmware. But an access point is just a device that allows you to access the LAN via wifi. The main router then handles all the duties of being a router, including DHCP assignment and NAT translation. There is a huge benefit of using it as an AP, in that the main router handles all the routing duties, so you aren't double NATing and causing unnecessary complications in your network which could lead to issues opening ports and connecting to websites and servers.
So then the secondary router does not need to be upgraded or replaced if all its doing is being an AP just so I become clear in this?

I think you can install OPENWRT on that router, possibly DDWRT, you would need to check your hardware revision. But these firmwares aren't as intuitive as Asus firmware. The reason Merlin exists is because Asus uses openwrt open license firmware. Being OPEN software requires Asus to published their modified version of the firmware periodically. Merlin takes this firmware and brings in a few other openwrt libraries to make a tweaked customized version with more options. This includes FQ_Codel and CAKE QOS traffic shaping algorithms. Search these on youtube for an explaination.
Ok I'll look at this one. Many thanks!
 
Do you actually have some issue. QoS will do nothing at all if data is not being queued. You might also use other methods to prevent data queue. You can limit say steam downloads so it will not use 100% of your internet connection.

I would also avoid third party firmware other than maybe merlin but you can not run merlin on your main router because it is not a asus. Other third party firmware might work but many times these cause the router to run slower because of complexity. This added complexity tends to make them confusing to configure, they have lots of junk features few people use.

Just be careful to not chase a solution for a problem you do not actually have.
 

gggplaya

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So then the secondary router does not need to be upgraded or replaced if all its doing is being an AP just so I become clear in this?
Correct, access points don't need to do very much besides handle the wifi traffic and authenticate your device. The router's processor and software does all the heavy work.

As Bill said, QOS won't do much unless you're nearing the maximum bandwidth of you internet plan. At which point, the QOS traffic shaper will help allocate bandwidth and prioritization of traffic. Only QOS traffic shapers like FQ_Codel and Cake actually work, the other QOS's in most routers rely on packet tagging and never work really well. But these algorithms are very cpu intensive, requires a beefy router processor. With ARM routers, you're limited to 200-400max bandwidth depending on the cpu in your router. Maybe 50-100mbps for a super cheap router.
 
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