Card sleeves question

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Greetings,

I played recently at a PTQ (sealed deck format) and some guy had those
fantasy image ultra pro card sleeves.
The local judge started debating wheter these sleeves are legal or not since
he himself wasn't sure.
Personally, I think those things should be legal even tough the possibilty
of cheating is slightly elevated with a card sleeve that has a complex image
of a chick riding a dragon. However, these protectors happen to be of
excellent quality, and owning some myself I'd like to know wheter it is
legal or not to use them in tournaments, and how what is the official DCI
policy, if any, towards the usage of card sleeves.

Thanx in advance

--
To have no sword,
for all under Heaven.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Griffis <griffisMAKNI@net.hr> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I played recently at a PTQ (sealed deck format) and some guy had those
> fantasy image ultra pro card sleeves.
> The local judge started debating wheter these sleeves are legal or not since
> he himself wasn't sure.
> Personally, I think those things should be legal even tough the possibilty
> of cheating is slightly elevated with a card sleeve that has a complex image
> of a chick riding a dragon. However, these protectors happen to be of
> excellent quality, and owning some myself I'd like to know wheter it is
> legal or not to use them in tournaments, and how what is the official DCI
> policy, if any, towards the usage of card sleeves.

35. Card Sleeves
Players may use plastic card sleeves or other protective devices on
cards. If a player chooses to use card sleeves, all cards in the
player's current deck must be placed in the sleeves in an identical
manner. If the sleeves feature holograms or other similar markings,
cards must be inserted into the sleeves so these markings appear only on
the face of the cards.

Once a match begins, a player may request that the judge inspect an
opponent's card sleeves. The judge may disallow a player's card sleeves
if the judge believes they are marked, worn, or otherwise in a condition
or of a design that interferes with shuffling or game play. To avoid
confusion, a card sleeve may also be used to mark a player's card if the
card is in an opponent's playing area.

44. Marked Cards
Players are responsible for ensuring that their cards and/or card
sleeves are not marked. A card is considered marked if it bears
something that makes it possible to identify the card without seeing its
face, including scratches, discoloration, bends, and so on.

If a player's cards are sleeved, the sleeves are considered part of the
cards, so the cards must be examined while in the sleeves to determine
if they are marked. Players must use care when sleeving their decks and
should randomize their decks prior to sleeving them to reduce the
possibility of marked cards with a pattern.


--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Griffis <griffisMAKNI@net.hr> wrote:
>I played recently at a PTQ (sealed deck format) and some guy had those
>fantasy image ultra pro card sleeves.
>The local judge started debating wheter these sleeves are legal or not since
>he himself wasn't sure.

Jym's been allowing them, both kinds (so far), at Tennessee events. Basically,
it's possible to find very slightly differently-marked backs among several
packs' worth of them ... but normal wear and tear on regular sleeves marks them
up to a greater extent fairly quickly.

>Personally, I think those things should be legal even tough the possibilty
>of cheating is slightly elevated with a card sleeve that has a complex image
>of a chick riding a dragon. However, these protectors happen to be of
>excellent quality, and owning some myself I'd like to know wheter it is
>legal or not to use them in tournaments, and how what is the official DCI
>policy, if any, towards the usage of card sleeves.

"Official DCI policy" appears to be "ask the Head Judge before playing",
pretty much. The section about card sleeves notes how the card must be placed
in the sleeve, and notes that "The judge may disallow a player's card sleeves
if the judge believes they are marked, worn, or otherwise in a condition or of
a design that interferes with shuffling or game play" (35)... and notes that
_players_ are responsible for making sure their sleeves aren't marked (44).

So I'd say ask your Head Judge, if you're unsure, beforehand. Many playing
venues will have ordinary sleeves for sale, or you can bring a backup set of
sleeves if you want, just in case.

(I do know that Jym has disallowed some of the ultra-reflective smooth-backed
sleeves, the kind where you can look at the top card of opponent's deck while
he's drawing and get a fairly good look at what he's drawing... but again
that's for tournaments he runs, not for the whole DCI.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Griffis" <griffisMAKNI @ net . hr> wrote in message news:<clfrrd$ua7$1@ls219.htnet.hr>...
> Greetings,
>
> I played recently at a PTQ (sealed deck format) and some guy had those
> fantasy image ultra pro card sleeves.

I dislike them myself. When they were initially released, a number of
people saw they were coming out of the box with noticable variations
in their shading. In other words, they came out of the box marked.
Recent examples I've seen don't seem to have that problem, so maybe it
was something about the manufacturing process that's been fixed.

> Personally, I think those things should be legal even tough the possibilty
> of cheating is slightly elevated with a card sleeve that has a complex image
> of a chick riding a dragon. However, these protectors happen to be of
> excellent quality, and owning some myself I'd like to know wheter it is
> legal or not to use them in tournaments, and how what is the official DCI
> policy, if any, towards the usage of card sleeves.

As has already been said, you really need to ask the HJ at the event.
However, the DCI does have a policy in the High Level Rules. Here's
an excerpt of an email from Scott Larabee:

>The "High Level Rules" Document has been updated to address the cheat
>sleeves issue. The following has been added to the Sleeves and Card
>Facing section:
>
>* Card sleeve backs must be of one uniform color, opaque, and
>not overly reflective.
>
>The high level rules document applies to most REL 4 and all REL 5
>events. WOTC does not have a blanket ban on certain types of sleeves.
>The decision as to whether a certain type of sleeve will be allowed
in
>any particular tournament is a decision between the TO and Head Judge
of
>that event.

So, if you get to use them at a PTQ, don't bring them to the Pro Tour.