Carmack comments on D]|[ at B3D.

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

A Quick little questions and answer.

<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/#news12006" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/#news12006</A>

Main points:

NV30 code path will be gone. So those THG benchies as well as all the others that came with the NV35 are completely useless for the ACTUAL game. Interesting turn of events.

Added some Cg front end to the mix.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[GeneticWeapon]

I smell a release date being pushed back!!

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah, actually you're right. That does sound about right.

But of course that would never happen!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[flamethrower205]

This is becoming ridiculous, these guys need a tight ass to lead em. When I work as a programmer at trading firms, delayed is not an option or you're gonna get your ass fired. Programmers are inherently lazy but they must learn to become efficient from the laziness and still haul ass...

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply

 

[rx7000]

This is becoming ridiculous, these guys need a tight ass to lead em. When I work as a programmer at trading firms, delayed is not an option or you're gonna get your ass fired. Programmers are inherently lazy but they must learn to become efficient from the laziness and still haul ass...

Programmers at Id are the equivlent of rock stars. I wouldnt be suprised if they demand a bowl full of brown m&m's everytime they show up to work.



Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE

 

[flamethrower205]

Well I got my own fridge full of various drinks I wanted, so that's not far fetched hehe.

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply

 

[splenda20]

When it's done, it's done!
I'll buy it and hopefully enjoy it.

I have absolutely no problem waiting for Doom 3. ID NEVER once gave a release date, they have always said "When it's done, it's done" There cannot be any delays when no official date is given. I say give them all the time they need to provide me with the best possible gaming experience and I'll be happy.

The difference between D3 and HL2 is that HL2 was actually delayed, they gave a release date of Sept 30th 2003 and then missed that day, which bugs me a little, but again, whatever time it takes to make the best game possible is fine with me, just don't get me excited by guaranteeing a release date that you can't make!

 

[GeneticWeapon]

Shut up.

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[splenda20]

Has anyone else noticed that GW is becoming more and more like a forum troll?
Seriously, other than your sticky, what meaningful, productive, or helpful post have you contributed to this forum???
You must be very very bitter because all of your posts consist of a few words criticizing others. Why bother???

Maybe YOU should just shut up and stop posting useless remarks.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

ID NEVER once gave a release date,

Wrong, they put up Domm3.com and THEY link to the option of pre-ordering it with release dates (which have change 2 times so far) and I don't think they are going to meet the middle of next month like they say right now, so I can bet that'll be 3 times. And at the very least it's not COMING SOON as the site says. Soon is before the release of another generation of products. Should be changed to "comin' eventually".

So this BS about it's done when it's done was ok last year, but not once they started promoting a release date.

And as much as it's anticipated, right now it's simply taking too long. With the alpha and 2 demos, it's now just delays. Perhaps too much of Carmack's focus is on the X prize.

It does look like a visual tour de force, but right now it's no better than HL2, or even a Demo for that matter. As much as people bad-mouthed UT2K4 when it was announced last year, it's actually come through where others have failed. I'll take an actual game over the thought of a game.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[sweatlaserxp]

As Doom ]|[ is by far my most anticipated game of all time, I think this is a very interesting development. Several times I've read Carmack's post from a while back where he explained the state of affairs with Doom, and the complexities of the different cards and supported codepaths. What I wonder is if nVidia is content with this decision; I suppose that if the performance is equal on ARB2, den 'issall good. Earlier this evening I decided to look up last year's "Way It's Meant To Be Played" 5900 Ultra review, with the Doom benchmarks, and needless to say I am confident that the 9800 Pro will be a lot closer to the 5900 Ultra in the final product, especially where AA/AF is concerned.

The only thing that bothers me is that why would id Software allow THG to use Doom as a benchmark when it is nowhere near completion??? Is it possible that the flagship NV30 cards really are more powerful than the Radeons if the developers have had sufficient time to optimize?

 

[dhlucke]

I think the release of Doom III and HL2 are myths.

They should go straight to 4 and 3.

<font color=red>_______________________________________________</font color=red>
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate

 

[sweatlaserxp]

With all the rumors circulating about the sys. requirements to run Doom at high detail, I would say that releasing it at this moment would be intensely frustrating for a lot of gamers...

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Is it possible that the flagship NV30 cards really are more powerful than the Radeons if the developers have had sufficient time to optimize?

Only if you don't apply those optimizations equally across the board. Remember Carmack said that the NV35 series would perform only slightly better than the R350 when using the special NV30 path, but at partial precision. When run at default ARB2 path the R350 would be faster.

So to be fair the R3XX series might also be faster still if the same level of attention was spent to optimize for it. If you look at nV's plan the idea was to give that artificial advanatage only to their cards with the promotion of Cg. If you look at TombRaider it runs poorly with the NV3X when running normal HLSL code but it's on par or faster than the R3XX when using the special Cg compiler option, without all the image quality issues of the floptimizations used in the D3DX route alone.

Power is really only measure under similar conditions, not slanted tests. Both can be compromised to show lower scores, but if the IQ isn't the same, then that's not more powerful, that's just doing alot less alot quicker. The question is why waste everyone else's time optimizing for one company over another if it delays the release for everyohne. Why should XGI, ATI, Intel and SIS owners wait for these optimiztions that don't benifit them, especially if they can already run the game playably without the added work. Make that a patch at a later date, then we get the games sooner.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[sweatlaserxp]

I couldn't have said it better. These developers would be better off if they just released the finished product and worried about picking up the slack later on with the help of an occasional patch. Vendor-specific optimizations hamper the benchmarking value of a game (though games aren't designed as benchmarks), and though developers can take advantage of new features it adds more complexity to the issue of trying to pass final judgment on a particular graphics card. ATi and nVidia cards, and their drivers, have very different methods of rendering a scene, and it would be nice if the drivers in the games became increasingly generic; the performance of different cards becomes more clear, because the graphics vendors have only their drivers and hardware design to fall back on as proof of their competence. I'm glad that John Carmack made this decision.

 

[flamethrower205]

LOL :lol:

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply

 

[splenda20]

ID still hasn't released a release date, EB Games (who I work for) did. While it may be wrong for ID, or more specifically Activision, to let EB give release dates without approval, I lay the most blame on EB.
EB gets their dates from Activision, usually from marketing guys giving out dates that they are hopeful can be met. EB Games could almost careless what the release date is, as long as there is one, that means we can start taking pre-purchases.
Read everything that anyone from Activision, or ID has said and you will not find a release date.