Case and SSD

Dur Lej

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May 14, 2015
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Hello guys I was wondering what case I should get for my system. My budget is ~50 pounds.
moba; H61M-S1
cpu; intel i5-3570
gpu; nvidia gtx 750ti
ram; G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB
HDD; Seagate ST1000DM003-1CH162

I would like to get an ssd (samsung 850 evo) but does it support my moba?
 
Solution


Hey Dur Lej... fair call on the case. Someone above already made a good suggestion so go with that.

Yes, you do only have SATA2 which will prevent an SSD from fully stretching its legs. However, see my...
The Samsung 850 Evo will work with any Motherboard with SATA 6Gb/s and if it doesn't have that you shouldn't be buying or using it in 2015. SGCC is the best material for a case and I prefer a case that doesn't have tool-less parts. Other things to look out for are airflow and buffeting around where fans are supposedly going (a lot of times manufacturers put a 140mm fan next to a hole that limits CFM to something a 60mm fan could feed), and front audio / USB 3.0 ports.

Never buy a case with built in LEDs. Supply your own if you're going that route. It may be extra work but it's worth the effort if you don't want a blinding light in your room during the middle of the night when you're trying to do work, watch a movie, whatever.
 


The Samsung 850 Evo will be an excellent choice!

Also i would recommend the HAF 912 for good airflow on a budget case.
 
Your entire system is probably pulling less than 160W under any 'normal' (i.e. non artificial stress test) scenario. That means any case will handle that amount of heat without an issue.

I'm assuming this is your motherboard? http://www.gigabyte.com.au/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4127#ov
If so, you don't have any USB 3.0 ports (or headers), so if you case comes with them you either can't use them, or will need a USB 3.0 to 2.0 internal adapter.

In other words... just get whatever case is cheap and you like the look of and it will work. You have an mATX motherboard, so can get a cheaper mATX case if you don't intend to upgrade soon. If I was you I'd just get the cheapest case which I liked the look of, and which had at least ONE 2.5" SSD mount.

RE your SSD, your motherboard only has SATA 2 (3Gbps) rather than the newer SATA3. They are absolutely still compatible, but you will not be able to fully utilise an SSD. Having said that, the biggest benefit of an SSD is the random read and write performance - that's what happens when you boot your computer, load a program, install updates, etc. That's not hugely affected by SATA2 vs SATA3. I can tell you from personal experience that an SSD on SATA2 is still massively faster than a HDD.

It's probably not worth spending a lot of money on the SSD though. Why not save yourself some money and get a more budget drive like the OCZ arc 100 ($54 for the 120GB, or $75 for the 240GB). The 850EVO performs really well, but you'll not benefit much over SATA2.
If you're concerned about the OCZ drives, the Crucial BX100s have great reputations as budget SSDs and are priced somewhere between the Arc100 and the 850 EVO.
 
@rhysiam
I don't want a "cheap" case, because Im planning to upgrade in the future and I want it to last for a few years.
So I need to upgrade my motherboard in order to let the samsung evo work at highest possible performance?

@Blueberries
I don't really know what "chipset" is but I think you mean the motherboard if so what would you recommend?
I would also like to upgrade my cpu as I want to start streaming (cs;go) and I was thinking about i5-4690k but is it gonna make a big difference if I upgrade it from the current cpu?
 


So can you give the reasons why you'd shell out around $100 for a Z77 motherboard on a locked CPU that can't be overclocked?

CPU/GPU performance will be completely unchanged.

What you'd gain is USB3, PCIe 3 (which is irrelevant for a single card setup) , and SATA3.

Sure, if SATA3 and USB3 is worth $100 to you, by all means spend that money. But there's no way I'd be spending anything like that kind of money for those features.

SSDs still make a massive difference on SATA2.
 


You answered your own question. Even USB 3.0 is outdated today. Even a $400 PC has SATA3 and PCI-e 3.0. What are your reasons for spending any money at all on antiquated hardware that's junk by today's standards?
 


How familiar are you with modern SSDs? You realise SATA3 is fully backwards compatible right? And you realise that's not an old drive right? The OCZ Arc 100 is a decent entry level SATA3 SSD. Anandtech gave it a full review and said was an okay drive, but not great value: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8407/ocz-arc-100-240gb-review
Since then (12 months ago) prices have dropped dramatically. It's now one of the cheapest non-rubbish SSDs on the market. Sure, there are better options at higher price points, but given the SATA2 connection it really won't make any difference, so why not just get a cheaper one?

You answered your own question. Even USB 3.0 is outdated today.
But does the OP need USB3? If she/he is willing to pay $100 for it, then fine. But unless you're working with high speed external storage, USB2 is just fine.

Even a $400 PC has SATA3 and PCI-e 3.0
True - but does the OP need them? I've said already that SATA2 actually works just fine for SSDs. Are you getting the full performance... NO, but it's still way better than a HDD. Would you rather a 120GB SSD on SATA2, or a 500GB SSD on SATA3... because that's the price difference. Give me the latter any day of the week!
And PCIe-3... yes it's on modern chipsets, but you absolutely do NOT need it. There are heaps of people running SLI 980ti setups on x8 x8 PCIe 3.0, which gives the cards the same bandwidth as the OP's single x16 PCIe 2.0 slot. There is no value in PCIe 3.0 for single card gaming. Don't spend a penny on that because it's wasted.

What are your reasons for spending any money at all on antiquated hardware that's junk by today's standards?
But you're the one suggesting the OP spends an extra $100 on a motherboard, not me. All I'm recommending is an SSD and a cheap case. Both of which can be re-used in a future build.

Let me just re-iterate the original point I made. A $100 upgrade to Z77 gets you:
- PCIe 3.0 -> no performance impact on high end cards, let alone the 750ti - completely irrelevant
- SATA3 -> improved SSD performance, particularly for sequential transfers. Not a big deal, not worth $100 IMHO (I'd take a larger SSD that I can reuse in future)
- USB3 -> is helpful if you're regularly moving large files on USB3 capable external storage. But USB2 is still okay.
- Absolutely no difference to CPU or GPU performance whatsoever.

So if USB3 and SATA3 are worth $100 to the OP, then for sure, a Z77 mobo is a good upgrade. But no way I'd be sinking that money into an old rig. I'd rather save up for a future upgrade... particularly a video card.
 


Hey Dur Lej... fair call on the case. Someone above already made a good suggestion so go with that.

Yes, you do only have SATA2 which will prevent an SSD from fully stretching its legs. However, see my posts above, I muck around with old rigs quite a lot and have a few older SSDs I've chucked in them. They still boot in 10-15 seconds, they still transfer files at over 200MBps, they still feel like SSD fueled systems. Yes, they will absolutely be slower in benchmarks, but in the real world you'd have to have two side-by-side, or get out a stop watch you be able to tell the difference.

Ask yourself how often you copy really large files around and how much you really care about how long it takes. If you've answered "all the time" and "I care a huge amount", then for sure pay $100 to get a SATA3 mobo. There are definitely people whose computer use demands that kind of performance and they're willing to pay for it... good on them. But if that's not you, don't waste your money on it.

RE the CPU upgrade, that 3570 you have is an extremely capable CPU. There's exactly 100mhz (about 3%) difference in clockspeed, and the newer Haswell (4690k and co) are between 5 and 10% quicker clock for clock. So an upgrade to a 4690 would net you maybe 15% faster CPU, at best. Now you could overclock a 4690K to pull further away. But you'd need a new motherboard, new CPU, aftermarket cooler, probably a new Windows lincence (unless you have a retail one?) and very possibly a new PSU. You're looking at around $400-500 and a whole lot of hassle for maybe 30% more performance.... and that's only in CPU bound scenarios, which most games absolutely will NOT be.

TL : DR, You've got a decent rig there. Give the streaming a crack and see how you go. You can always try Shadowplay too, it lets the videocard handle the bulk of the streaming encode tasks to ease the CPU burden.
 
Solution
PCI-e 2.0 has a lower bandwidth per lane than PCI-e 3.0, I.e., PCI-e 2.0 x8 is not the same as PCI-e 3.0 x8.

I don't even understand your point. In your mind it makes more sense to handicap a device to work rather than improving the drive-train that handles it. You're also confusing reliability and failure-rate with drive-performance.

Also, who the hell doesn't use USB 3.0? Are you crazy? Every device I own is USB 3.0. Are you living in the 90's?
 


But that's a PCI 2.0 x16 slot! Which is slightly faster than a PCI 3.0 x8 slot... which is what you get once you chuck a second card into a Z77 or Z97 motherboard. It's been shown over and over that for two card rigs a PCIe 3.0 x8 slot is just fine for even the highest end cards in SLI. And OP's x16 PCIe 2.0 slot gives effectively the same (technically slightly more) bandwidth. I'm telling you 100% that for a single card rig, PCIe 2.0 or PCIe 3.0 won't make any difference whatsoever.

The irony of all this is that I've just re-checked the motherboard and it does actually support PCIe 3 (with an Ivy Bridge CPU, which OP has). So now you can celebrate that the motherboard will provide the additional bandwidth to the video card... which, as I've been saying all along... won't make a jot of difference for anything.

You're also confusing reliability and failure-rate with drive-performance.
OCZ went bankrupt because their validation was sub-standard and they released far too many flawed drives. They were then bought out by Toshiba and are now a totally different beast. I never bought nor recommended OCZ SSDs back in their dark days, but there have been no major issues in the last few years that I know of anyway - feel free to link me to some if you know better. Ironically it's Samsung who have the worst record of late with fairly widespread issues on the 840 EVOs which they took a long time to address properly, and have never really 'fixed' the problem. You're confusing the OCZ of yester-year with the modern Toshiba owned brand. If you have doubts, can I refer you to the Anandtech review, they provide some of the most detailed and comprehensive SSD reviews you can find: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8407/ocz-arc-100-240gb-review

Also, who the hell doesn't use USB 3.0? Are you crazy? Every device I own is USB 3.0. Are you living in the 90's?
Actually, your mouse is almost certainly NOT USB3. Your keyboard is almost certainly NOT USB 3... neither is your headset, USB speakers, printers/scanner, digital camera or smartphone (even the Samsung Galaxy S6 is USB2). Even if, by some chance, one of the above is actually USB3, it doesn't need it. the 480Mbps of USB2 is more than enough for any of the above (though I admit USB3 phones would be nice for photo, music and video transfers).

Outside of very unusual/niche needs, the only things that actually benefit from USB3 is external networking (which OP doesn't need presumably), and external storage - which I fully discussed in every post and response I've made.

With respect, I've been on these forums on and off for years and have piles of best answers. If you don't understand what I'm saying perhaps you could do me the courtesy of taking some time to try and understand it, rather than just arguing back.

From the very start I've agreed with you that Z77 offers some features than are missing on the current motherboard. The key question is whether these features are worth the price of the upgrade.

The basic argument of OUTDATED = BAD is really not helpful. What we're trying to help OP decide is whether it's worthwhile for him/her to spend the money to get the missing features?

I've suggested throughout that those features are probably not worth the cost of Z77 motherboard. Now if you want to post benchmarks, links, or highlight personal experience to demonstrate why USB3, SATA3 and PCIe3 (although the latter we now know is already there) will make a tangible difference to the OP and is worth spending money on, go for it! Then we can have a proper discussion that will be helpful for the OP.
 
You're right. Buying an SSD designed to run on SATA3 and forcing it to operate on SATA2 is much more reasonable than updating infrastructure. The CPU totally communicates with a PCI-e device over x16 2.0 lanes the same as it would over x8 3.0 lanes, it's as simple as addition! Oh, and 4k memory blocks can't be sequentially read and somehow aren't impacted by drive performance.

Wireless devices respond the same on USB 3.0 as they would on USB 2.0! Routers, wireless adapters, DACs, card readers, thumb drives, cell phones, cameras, none of them have native USB 3.0 support! I don't know about your Galaxy but mine came with a USB3.0 cable, actually. Here, I took a picture for you:

20150804_091227_2.jpg


What benchmarks do you want me to find? Benchmarks that suggest USB3.0 is better than USB 2.0? That SATA3 is better than SATA2? That Z77 has more features than Z61?

Really though, it's a good thing somebody with a bunch of posts on an internet forum beat that logic into me. Obviously the OP would rather have an SSD that works at less than half the efficiency advertised.
 


Yes, it does.
PCIe 3.0 operates at 7.877Gbps per lane (just over 63Gbps in a x8 slot and 126Gbps in a x16 slot)
PCIe 2.0 operates at 4Gbps per lane (or 64Gbps in a x16 slot).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
This is one of many threads responding to this very question: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2305815/pcie-bottleneck-gtx-980.html
PCIe 2 or 3... It's irrelevant for single card setups.

Buying an SSD designed to run on SATA3 and forcing it to operate on SATA2 is much more reasonable than updating infrastructure.
Toms checked this out in great detail. Admittedly the article is a bit over 2 years old now, but it's run on an 840 Pro which is still an extremely capable SSD. They concluded that there are: "Almost No Advantages for SATA 6 Gb/s On A Typical Desktop"
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-upgrade-sata-3gbps,3469-16.html

In terms of USB3, is it better?... of course it is! But the question is whether you can live with 480Mbps, or whether you need to spend the money to get the faster USB3.

I'm off to bed now and I think there's more than enough information there for OP to make up her/his own mind.

Just remember OP that if you have an OEM Windows license, most versions will require you to purchase a new license if you replace your motherboard. So you might want to check out the details on your version and factor in any costs there when you consider how to spend your money.

Sorry this thread has descended into a bit of a back-and-forth. If you still have outstanding questions post them here and I'm sure we can have a crack at answering them.