News CES 2025 is the 40th anniversary of the Commodore 128 — the last 8-bit PC first appeared at CES 1985

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If you compare the launch prices of the IBM PC and C64, the IBM cost almost 3x as much! According to Wikipedia, the IBM PC launched in Aug. 1981 at $1565, while the C64 launched in Aug. 1982 at $595.

Part of the C64 and Apple II's advantage was that they used an ordinary TV, for a display terminal. I'm sure this was a great trick for saving some money.
 
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It shows the downside of being backwards compatible. Why would you develop software for the 128 and lose all those C64 owners as customers. Instead, you could develop C64 software and sell it to C64 owners AND C128 owners. That of course means less software for C128 which means lower sales, which means less software for C128 which means it's in a death spiral.
 
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dontlistentome said:
It shows the downside of being backwards compatible. Why would you develop software for the 128 and lose all those C64 owners as customers. Instead, you could develop C64 software and sell it to C64 owners AND C128 owners. That of course means less software for C128 which means lower sales, which means less software for C128 which means it's in a death spiral.
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That explains Sony's failed Playstation 2 and also 3.

A little more serious though, given the sluggish sales of the 128 is the only way this works.
 
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bit_user said:
Part of the C64 and Apple II's advantage was that they used an ordinary TV, for a display terminal. I'm sure this was a great trick for saving some money.
Click to expand...
Indeed... monitors were pretty expensive back then (relatively speaking), and the output resolution was so low, a TV did a good enough job (don't forget the little switch box to connect from the RF modulator to the antenna inputs). I bought my C64 for $99, I think from Sears or JC Penney, and I think the C128 was double that. Didn't know until I read this post that the C128 could drive dual displays, though! That's just amazing given how resource-limited these machines were.
 
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das_stig said:
Is the Apple IIe discontinued 1994 the true last 8-bit, yes we have new 8-bit that are clones or emulate old tech and single board computers, but these just don't feel like natural successors.
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It was discontinued in 1994, but was introduced in 1983. When you're talking about the last 8-bit computer, you're talking about the last to market, not one that hung around way past it's expiration date.
 
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I started gaming in 1982 and back then all machines suffered from 2 problems , firstly a game made for 1 machine would not work on another brand because they all used different chipsets and programming codes and secondly they all reached their potential when writers tried to do what was then the beginnings of 3d ... the chipsets could not cope.

I remember a new breed of machines called msx and the games were cartridge based and the idea was a game on a machine made by sony would work on one made by yamaha but they never caught on.

Fast forwards 20+ years and the msx idea is now called WINDOWS ..... you can buy a machine made by anyone or build one yourself. Any game or other type of software will work on any machine providing it has the required components in it.
 
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bit_user said:
If you compare the launch prices of the IBM PC and C64, the IBM cost almost 3x as much! According to Wikipedia, the IBM PC launched in Aug. 1981 at $1565, while the C64 launched in Aug. 1982 at $595.

Part of the C64 and Apple II's advantage was that they used an ordinary TV, for a display terminal. I'm sure this was a great trick for saving some money.
Click to expand...
Fortunately for the PC, the attack of the clones made the PC ecosystem what it is today; if it were to remain locked-down to just IBM, the PC would have had the same fate as Commodore.

I'm curious what the most affordable PC's were in 1985 and the next few years -- maybe this also dissipated a lot of the C128's advantage. Doing a quick search, Dell released their first PC, the Turbo, for $795 in 1985. I know Compaq popped up around that time as well and cornered the low-cost PC market.
 
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bit_user said:
If you compare the launch prices of the IBM PC and C64, the IBM cost almost 3x as much! According to Wikipedia, the IBM PC launched in Aug. 1981 at $1565, while the C64 launched in Aug. 1982 at $595.

Part of the C64 and Apple II's advantage was that they used an ordinary TV, for a display terminal. I'm sure this was a great trick for saving some money.
Click to expand...
But IBM PC born as a business machine, while C64 was a home computer, for this reason a price comparision have no sense.
 
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The end of the C64 era and the low sales of the C128 had nothing to do with the 8086. The C128 was released in 1985, the same year the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST. People went with these to replace their 8bit machines. Why would you buy a PC with CGA graphics, a tweeter speaker and terrible games when you could have an Amiga or ST?

I bought a C128 in 1985, (my older brother showed me his C64, so I had to one up him, we were in our 20's). I loved it, but I only used it in C64 mode. I loved all the C64 games and I bought an Amiga a few years later. (Of course I jumped ship to the PC's in the early 90's).

What is with the C64D mention? "compared to the thriving software support the original C64D enjoyed,". That is the first mention of that computer I have ever seen. Looking online there may have been a few prototypes floating around but it does not look like it even existed as a retail product. If it did, it would be very rare.
 
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ref : That of course means less software for C128 which means lower sales, which means less software for C128 which means it's in a death spiral

? nobody should develop anything for the C128 part, it was already there because it could run CP/M, (it's like a 8 bit DOS), if you make a computer today that can run windows why should you think about making software for it.
 
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sparrow2 said:
if you make a computer today that can run windows why should you think about making software for it.
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This is basically what happened to the Linux gaming scene - at least that's how it looks to me as a non-gamer. It's like as soon as WINE + Direct3D emulation got good enough, the native ports of games basically stopped. Even though Linux, as a gaming platform, has continued to grow (slowly, and mostly due to Valve/Steam Deck).
 
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Sluggotg said:
The end of the C64 era and the low sales of the C128 had nothing to do with the 8086. The C128 was released in 1985, the same year the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST. People went with these to replace their 8bit machines. Why would you buy a PC with CGA graphics, a tweeter speaker and terrible games when you could have an Amiga or ST?

I bought a C128 in 1985, (my older brother showed me his C64, so I had to one up him, we were in our 20's). I loved it, but I only used it in C64 mode. I loved all the C64 games and I bought an Amiga a few years later. (Of course I jumped ship to the PC's in the early 90's).

What is with the C64D mention? "compared to the thriving software support the original C64D enjoyed,". That is the first mention of that computer I have ever seen. Looking online there may have been a few prototypes floating around but it does not look like it even existed as a retail product. If it did, it would be very rare.
Click to expand...

C64D must've been accidentally added by myself or an editor, I definitely don't remember mentioning that at all ^^;

Your opinion is noted but it does seem like 16-bit's sudden prevalence absolutely had something to do with it...but I also wasn't there, lol. Your hands-on experience with the C64 in its era sounds pretty cool, though.
 
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MJS WARLORD said:
I started gaming in 1982 and back then all machines suffered from 2 problems , firstly a game made for 1 machine would not work on another brand because they all used different chipsets and programming codes and secondly they all reached their potential when writers tried to do what was then the beginnings of 3d ... the chipsets could not cope.

I remember a new breed of machines called msx and the games were cartridge based and the idea was a game on a machine made by sony would work on one made by yamaha but they never caught on.

Fast forwards 20+ years and the msx idea is now called WINDOWS ..... you can buy a machine made by anyone or build one yourself. Any game or other type of software will work on any machine providing it has the required components in it.
Click to expand...
You know the funny part about MSX? Microsoft was involved in the creation of that standard as well
😆.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX
 
artk2219 said:
You know the funny part about MSX? Microsoft was involved in the creation of that standard as well
😆.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX
Click to expand...
Wow, you guys have found a big gap in my knowledge of home computing history! This one wasn't even on my radar, yet they managed to sell a total of 9M units, in its 10 year history from 1983 to 1993.

For a minute, I wondered whether you were thinking of the 3DO effort to establish a compatible standard for home video game consoles. That came along in 1993, but ended in 1996. Also backed by Japanese manufacturers, along with Korean and Taiwanese.

The first 3DO machines were too expensive, especially once the N64 and Playstation both launched at much lower price points and with (mostly) better specs. I remember seeing demo screen shots from the second gen 3DO hardware that looked really impressive, but the effort fizzled before any machines went on sale.
 
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bit_user said:
Wow, you guys have found a big gap in my knowledge of home computing history! This one wasn't even on my radar, yet they managed to sell a total of 9M units, in its 10 year history from 1983 to 1993.

For a minute, I wondered whether you were thinking of the 3DO effort to establish a compatible standard for home video game consoles. That came along in 1993, but ended in 1996. Also backed by Japanese manufacturers, along with Korean and Taiwanese.
​
​

The first 3DO machines were too expensive, especially once the N64 and Playstation both launched at much lower price points and with (mostly) better specs. I remember seeing demo screen shots from the second gen 3DO hardware that looked really impressive, but the effort fizzled before any machines went on sale.
Click to expand...
They're fascinating machines, I've been trying to find one stateside for a few years. Also a Sharp X68000, thats a whole different story as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X68000
 
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