Question Changing CPU how do I know if it will work?

[Kenny E.]

I got an eMachine computer model EL1850, and I want to change the CPU (I think this is the Acer Aspire X1900 motherboard).

So I read the main thing is that the sockets have to be compatible and I found some great CPU's I want to use that are the same socket (LGA775).

But then I read also the BIOS has to be compatible. How do I know if my bios will work with the new CPU?

And also I read that the chipset on the computer has to be compatible. How do I check if this is so or not?

I currently have an Intel Pentium Dual-Core E6700, installed and I want to change it to an older CPU like an Intel Pentium D or Intel Celeron D.

Will it work? How do I find out if they are compatible?

How does one check this? I tried pc part picker but their webpage seems to be down, is that a good resource?

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

The Pentium D's are not worth the headache...I personally moved out of the Pentium D range and onto the Core 2 Duo lineup which was a sigh of relief. If the system is a prebuilt, please parse the SKU for the Acer unit. Assumptions can often lead to bliss and sometimes woes when you base a purchase off of non concrete information.

 

[Lafong]

Your first step should be to identify the motherboard for sure, not "I think".

And then go to that motherboard makers web site, look up your model, dig out all info you think is relevant, and then possibly make another post.

 

[Kenny E.]

Well, I want to use these CPU's!

I did check the Acer webpage for Acer Aspire X1900 but all I could find was a user manual no detailed specifications.

Also, eMachines is no longer a company that is active I think.

However I did some search on the comuter and I got:

Chips:
Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset
Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7
Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411

BIOS:
American Megatrends, P01-B1 ,
Revision: 8.15

 

[USAFRet]

I currently have an Intel Pentium Dual-Core E6700, installed and I want to change it to an older CPU like an Intel Pentium D or Intel Celeron D.

Why?

 

[Kenny E.]

The reason is I want to avoid multi threading and the Intel Management Engine for security reasons.

And the specs work great for what I will use the computer for.

Also I looked inside the computer and I think the main chipset is:
Intel NH82891GB (I/O).

Then I looked at intel's webpage and it sais:
"Intel® ME Firmware Version - YES"

In the specifications. Does this mean this chip has the Intel Managament Engine (Intel ME) or Intel AMT?

I mean they started making this chip in 2005 and I thought they brought in the Intel Management Engine in june 2006?

 

[USAFRet]

I would not count on that eMachine BIOS to have support for a different CPU.

 

[Kenny E.]

Well, BIOS is American Megatrends, P01-B1, Revision: 8.15.

So it ain't eMachines BIOS.

 

[USAFRet]

Well, BIOS is American Megatrends, P01-B1, Revision: 8.15.

So it ain't eMachines BIOS.

And frequently, the functionality is written explicitly for that eMachine, in its original configuration.
Not saying that IS the case, but that is not unusual.

A better solution for you might be to track down a used system with the CPU you do want.
Instead of trying to change this eMachine.

Regarding the IME...have you read of a specific exploit for that in the wild?

 

[Kenny E.]

I read that NSA / CIA or similar takes away the Intel ME from their devices.

I did see some articles stating it could be used as a backdoor or as a way of attacking a computer but did not read them in details.

But as I stated I also don' want multithreading and that's pretty well known to be a security risk.

Now I found info that the Acer Aspire X1900 has the G42 chipset.

When I looked inside my computer the largest Intel chip besides the CPU is the 82801GB chip.

So do I have both of these chips or just one of them?

Also on the intel page for the 82801GB chip it states:
"Intel® ME Firmware Version - YES"

Does this mean it has the Intel ME?

Is there any way of checking if I have it, or the AMT?

 

[logainofhades]

The reason is I want to avoid multi threading and the Intel Management Engine for security reasons.

Almost nobody is going to be affected by this. If you are that scared, get an 8000 or 9000 series i5. They lack hyperthreading, and will allow you to run with a more secure OS. Older OS's are more of a security risk, that what you are envisioning IME to be. People going after these exploits do not care about the average user. They are going to go after big companies.

 

[USAFRet]

I read that NSA / CIA or similar takes away the Intel ME from their devices.

I did see some articles stating it could be used as a backdoor or as a way of attacking a computer but did not read them in details.

I have read these in detail.
And not found a single instance of this being exploited in the wild.

Not one.


"could be used"
Many things "could be used". The front window of your house or apartment. A laser and sufficient computer power can read vibrations of that window, and know what you're saying.


The phone in your pocket is MUCH more a vulnerability than hyperthreading or IME.
Orders of magnitude more.

 

[Kenny E.]

@USAFRet
As mentioned the multithread thing is also an issue. And I could read more articles and do links. But again, NSA disables it. Are you saying the state agency of NSA is illogical?

@logainofh
Yes but that CPU will not work with my computer. And also I can run the latest OS's on my computer so that's not the thing here.

And regarding capabilities of spying and who does this and for what I do think that is a bit off topic. But certainly everyone has a different approach in these kind of matters. I would also say due to personal experiences and such things my perspective may be a bit less naive than the averege person's, but then that is another story and certainly OT.

This is about solving a technical issue and I appreciate the answers so far and hope for more contributions that may help many in finding the right combination of motherrboard and CPU.

Another factor to go for older chips is economy, they are cheaper.

 

[logainofhades]

@USAFRet
As mentioned the multithread thing is also an issue. And I could read more articles and do links. But again, NSA disables it. Are you saying the state agency of NSA is illogical?

@logainofh
Yes but that CPU will not work with my computer. And also I can run the latest OS's on my computer so that's not the thing here.

NSA is big enough that it could be attacked. The average user, nobody cares about. You are making a mountain out of an ant hill. Pentium D is not going to run Win 10 very well, if at all, and you can forget Win 11. Your current CPU would not even be affected by this, as it lacks hyperthreading, which is where all of these potential attacks target.

 

[USAFRet]

@USAFRet
As mentioned the multithread thing is also an issue. And I could read more articles and do links. But again, NSA disables it. Are you saying the state agency of NSA is illogical?

@logainofh
Yes but that CPU will not work with my computer. And also I can run the latest OS's on my computer so that's not the thing here.

Does the NSA sometimes disable things that you or I do not?
Sure.

They have a whole different threat model than we do.

My laptop at work - No USB device more complex than a mouse or keyboard allowed. The system knows if something were to be plugged in, and reports instantly to a security team.
Would I tolerate that in my home system? No.
Would you? Also, no.

And no, I do not work for the NSA.

Further, I, as a normal user/developer, do not have admin access to that system. I literally cannot install any applications.
This is all in the name of security.
Would you tolerate that on your home system? Of course not.

 

[Kenny E.]

Well, there are attacks to steal from people doing new things. whether that be a start up business in a garage or at larger companies.

I mean I once saw a press conference in the White House where USA government people stated there were alot of attacks from other countries on small companies in the USA and people in the USA.

So saying this thing would only affect large government organizations may be a bit naive.

And sure some of you may want a thing on your CPU's that you have no idea how it is working that CAN spy on what you do.

I see no reason whatsoever to have that.

And I get great specs for what I do with older CPU's so why not?

I think it's an excellent idea.

But hey it's perspectives. I have pesonal experiences that let's just say have washed away being naive when it comes to security. And here I have an easy way of adding security which I think is great!

 

[USAFRet]

Well, many countries make attacks to steal from people doing new things. hether that be a start up business in a garage.

I mean I once saw a press conference in the White House where USA government people stated there were alot of attacks from China in small companies and people in the USA.

So saying this would only affect large government organizations may be a bit naive.

And sure some of you may want a thing on your CPU's that you have no idea how it is working that CAN spy on what you do.

I see no reason whatsoever to have that.

And I get great specs for what I do with older CPU's so why not?

I think it's an excellent idea.

"Attacks" yes. Absolutely.
Phishing attack, malware, ransomware, etc, etc.
These are mostly user induced. "Click here!" or, "Download this pirated game for free!"

Attack via the IME?
Have YOU seen one?
I've not.


Know your threat model, and fix that.

Good luck.

 

[logainofhades]

You are seriously worried over nothing that is not going to affect any average user. I work for an automotive supplier, supplying a fair number of the large automakers, and we don't run old junk for some perceived sense of security. We use quite modern hardware, and have security protections, on a software level. We couldn't function using ancient tech.

 

[Kenny E.]

Well, I would have the same specs in officcial performance as I have now in essence. Also the speed of the CPU's would be more than sufficient for the what the computer will be used for.

Regarding the spying mentioned. The mentioned state emplyee at the white house talking about these attacks was talking about thefts of things from companies in the USA coming from other countries.

He specifically mentioned smaller comanies, even in garages.

So your perspective seems to be different from his.

Then when it comes to the ME and multithread thing many people have voiced considerations here. Now, you say you're not worried about it because you didn't read of a specific instace where it happened. We'll how often do you hear about how in details attacks and thefts happen?

But regardless. There are Acer Emachines EL1850 with like dual core 2.2 GHz, could be relevant and inexpensive to upgrade to a faster older CPU also.

Again I do think this is about perspectives and I do respect the opinions expressed here but my experience is different and hence so is my perspective on this matter.

I also read that large computer manufacturers are considering taking away the ME thing from the CPU's or offering it as an alternative.

The only reason I see to have the ME thing is to surveilance computers from afar, which may be relevant for servers located at adistance or something or the like.

But for me, makes no sence to have a possibility of remote controll of my computer of any kind. So why have it? Makes no sense to me.

 

[logainofhades]

A pentium D is way slower than a Core 2 duo, and is a terrible idea, especially since your CPU lacks hyperthreading. Upgrading to say a core 2 quad, makes far more sense. You get more cores, and you don't have to worry about something that would never affect you anyway, as it also lacks HT. You do not get into HT territory until the first gen i series, like say an i7 920, or i5 650. I do believe some old Pentium 4's had it, but it wasn't very effective.

 

[USAFRet]

So, solution.

Find a relevant CPU of that same socket. Should be pretty cheap.

On ebay, I see several Pentium D for under $15.

Buy one, put it in.
See what happens.

 

[Eximo]

Pentium D HT is incapable of running anything newer than Windows 8, not even 8.1. Lacks vital instruction sets.


Cheap security, set yourself up another computer and load a software firewall. Filter out anything that could potentially gain remote access. Disable all remote access features on your internet enabled systems.
Managed switches and routers so you can control and detect unauthorized network access.
Get a late model hardware firewall.

There are so many things I would do before downgrading an already outdated CPU. As others have said, you can pick up an i7-9700k at the top end that will get you relatively recent performance and not have hyperthreading. Get an AMD CPU that doesn't have Intel ME at all. A cheap Ryzen isn't that hard to come by. Of course they have other vulnerabilities and there isn't a hardware/software platform that doesn't.

Just keep in mind, those are the vulnerabilities you hear about. There are likely more zero-day attack vectors out there in active use or remaining to be discovered.

Best security; keep it offline if you have something you don't want people to get access to.

 

[logainofhades]

A Q6600 is more likely to work, than a Pentium D.

 

[Kenny E.]

The thing is I am also interested in getting how to know what chipsets and BIOS's will work with which CPU.

I searched online and found no answer fully covering this. Also the manufacturers seems to not state this in their documentation. So how would one know?

For example I found information regarding the G41 chipset on wikipedia, but not for the Intel 82801GB chip. Also the G41 according to wiki seems not to work with Pentium D or Celerion D CPU's.

And I read in the specs for the 82801GB that it works with some Pentium D, but it did not state regarding the ones I was planning on using. Could it be that they are more compatible than what is stated on wiki and the intel site?

Also this intel ME thing seems weird to me. I mean before the ME thing there was the AMT that was similar. But from what I read these were first launched in mid 2006.

But then for the 82801GB chip, it states as mentioned, on the intel webpage:

"Intel® ME Firmware Version - YES"

This seems to me to imply that it has the ME. Why else would there be firmware versions of the ME for it? What do you think?

And if so, did they bring in the ME before mid 2006, or did they put in later into chips released before mid 2006?

Or is the information on the intel website missleading? I find it hard that a company like Intel would make a fault in the specs of a chip like this.

Now as I mentioned earlier it seems that my board has the: 82801GB chip. Is this the "chipset" I have? This was the large Intel chip I saw on my board when looking at it a bit, except for the CPU.

Or do I also have the G41 chipset? It is stated online that the chipset of the Aces Aspire X1900 is the Intel G41. And I read on this forum and also saw a pic online that the motherboard for the eMachines EL1850 is the Acer Aspire X1900. Is this so?

These are different. The 82801GB was first brought to market in 2005 and the G41 is from 2008.

Do you think I have both of these chips or just one, and if so, which?

 

[logainofhades]

Intel ME is management engine, not Windows ME.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000025619/software.html

G41 was indeed a Core 2 only based chipset. CPU-Z should be able to confirm what chipset you have.

82801GB is an IO controller.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27679/intel-82801gb-io-controller.html