Question Changing motherboard, processor (from FX-8350 to Ryzen 5 3600) and Ram.

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newc1975

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From my current rig, I have an SSD drive with Win 10 on it and another hard drive with programs loaded on it. If I simply install the old drives on the new motherboard, will Windows load/function when I boot up the computer?
 

newc1975

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The PSU is not new - it's probably 5 years old or so.
For what it's worth - when the computer sits idle for a while and then I start to type or open something - I can hear - what I think are the hard drive(s) starting up. I don't remember that in the past.
Thanks for the responses!
 
So, I checked in with somebody who knows a LOT more about power supplies than I do, and I'm no slouch when it comes to finding what I don't already know, but there is little information out there on your PSU other than the fact that it is build for Xion by Super Flower. Super Flower makes some very good PSU platforms like the Leadex and Leadex II, Golden green, etc., and builds most of the better EVGA units for them, but they also make some tremendously crappy platforms as well and outsource the actual building of them to some fairly shady third party manufacturers as well so I wanted to be sure.

The platform used in yours however, while decent when it was new according to my source (Thanks to Jon Gerow for that, aka JonnyGuru), it is a VERY old platform and it is highly likely this unit is along the lines of 10 years old, which makes it VERY MUCH the suspect in your problems since a failing or weak power supply can pretty easily mimic any kind of or level of hardware problem, and does.

Even if that unit was only five years old, and it is probably older than that, I would still advise you to replace it because while it was somewhat decent when new, it was never intended to be run beyond five years especially if it was used in a gaming rig all that time, but even if it wasn't. The components used in these units back then simply were not intended to last as long as those used in many of the platforms being sold today.

I would definitely start by replacing that unit and while it might not be the problem, it is both a very good idea to do so because you DO NOT want to continue using a power supply that old with your brand new hardware anyhow AND it is highly possible that it was the problem for both these builds. I would recommend that you look at 650-750w models from among those I've recommended here:

 

newc1975

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So, I checked in with somebody who knows a LOT more about power supplies than I do, and I'm no slouch when it comes to finding what I don't already know, but there is little information out there on your PSU other than the fact that it is build for Xion by Super Flower. Super Flower makes some very good PSU platforms like the Leadex and Leadex II, Golden green, etc., and builds most of the better EVGA units for them, but they also make some tremendously crappy platforms as well and outsource the actual building of them to some fairly shady third party manufacturers as well so I wanted to be sure.

The platform used in yours however, while decent when it was new according to my source (Thanks to Jon Gerow for that, aka JonnyGuru), it is a VERY old platform and it is highly likely this unit is along the lines of 10 years old, which makes it VERY MUCH the suspect in your problems since a failing or weak power supply can pretty easily mimic any kind of or level of hardware problem, and does.

Even if that unit was only five years old, and it is probably older than that, I would still advise you to replace it because while it was somewhat decent when new, it was never intended to be run beyond five years especially if it was used in a gaming rig all that time, but even if it wasn't. The components used in these units back then simply were not intended to last as long as those used in many of the platforms being sold today.

I would definitely start by replacing that unit and while it might not be the problem, it is both a very good idea to do so because you DO NOT want to continue using a power supply that old with your brand new hardware anyhow AND it is highly possible that it was the problem for both these builds. I would recommend that you look at 650-750w models from among those I've recommended here:

Kinna figured I'd end up replacing the PCU

How about one of these?
https://smile.amazon.com/CORSAIR-RM...8832011&sprefix=computer+power,aps,141&sr=8-3

https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-Modul...8832011&sprefix=computer+power,aps,141&sr=8-1
 

newc1975

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I installed the new EVGA GQ 750 Power Unit - it works great! BUT - it had no effect on my issue with my rig, freezing and then unfreezing (every time). The freezing is funny, sometimes everything freezes, sometimes only the keyboard, sometimes only the mouse, sometimes it's the audio playback. The freezing is definitely more frequent when I first boot up the system or when I fist get into playing a game. It seems that the more I play (or use the computer) the less it freezes. It might freeze randomly 5 times in the first hour of using the computer and then not again for several hours of use. I was listening to a wave file - one of several - and it just stopped playing and then started again after a minute or so. When I was signing onto Yahoo e-mail just a few minutes ago (one of the first things I did when I booted up) - the keyboard stopped working - then just started working again. The mouse was operating properly the whole time the keyboard freezing was occurring. In between freezes - everything seems to be working fine. See above to review what I've done in search of a solution.
 
Let's try to eliminate some common things that tend to hog up some system resources and cause problems for some users, before going further.

I would recommend doing all of the following.

Turn off system restore for ALL drives. You can turn it back on later if it turns out it doesn't help the problem, if you wish, but honestly system restore is a GIANT resource hog and you are much better creating periodic backups using something like Macrium reflect or Acronis true image. Those actually work when you need them to. System restore rarely works in the even you actually need to rely on it. Most users end up having to just do a clean install anyhow. I recommend turning it off, and leaving it off, but that's up to you. For now, disable it.



Disable automatic drive optimization. Optimizing drives by running defragmenter or TRIM, depending on whether it's a HDD or SSD, is something you definitely want to do manually on your own schedule and when it is convenient for YOU to do so, not when the system thinks it's ok. Once every week or two is probably perfectly fine, and is about what I tend to do. Disable optimization for all drives by unselecting the option to optimize drives automatically.



Set Windows update to only check for an install updates outside the time you normally would tend to be gaming or doing other important tasks.



In Windows defender or if you are using a third party antivirus/malware scanner, set it to NOT run on a schedule. You can leave real time monitoring enabled, but if it is set to automatically do full system scans periodically, make sure to either set that time outside your normal usage hours or disable it altogether and simply run full system scans periodically on a timeline that better serves you.


Also, do you have the Tomahawk or the Tomahawk max, because they are not the same and do not use the same BIOS images. I'm wondering if it's possible there is an issue there, but anyhow, just need to make sure which board we are working with anyhow.
 

newc1975

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Thanks for the reply!
OK - Done - Done and Done. Disabled system restore, Disabled drive optimization and adjusted windows update times.
I am using Windows Defender - it is not scheduled to run scans automatically.
The motherboard is an MSI B450 Tomahawk (MS7C02) - not max
I updated the BIOS via MSI "Live Update 6" to 1.C0. I only ran the previous BIOS for a couple of days and I don't remember the machine freezing. I have never "rolled back" a BIOS before. I also updated the Realtek sound driver, the AMD chipset drivers and the Realtek PCIE Network drivers via Live Update 6 the same day I updated the BIOS.
 
And now............?

Personally, I do not recommend using the live update feature. Updating by downloading the latest or desired firmware version, then unpacking it to a USB flash drive, then going into the BIOS and finding the BIOS update utility and pointing it to the location of the update files, is the preferred way to update. I've actually SEEN those desktop based BIOS update utilities brick systems or simply cause issues with the installed firmware image.

Also, after installing a new BIOS update, it is a GOOD idea to do a hard reset of the BIOS and then reconfigure any custom settings you may have had afterwards. Ignore any steps or instructions related to "no display" that don't apply to you.


BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes, press the power button on the case for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

It is probably also worth mentioning that for anything that might require an attempt to DO a hard reset in the first place, it is a GOOD IDEA to try a different type of display as many systems will not work properly for some reason with displayport configurations. It is worth trying HDMI if you are having no display or lack of visual ability to enter the BIOS, or no signal messages.
 

newc1975

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Update - still freezing as described before.
The last thing I did was to roll back the BIOS to 1.B0 (from 1.C0) using the BIOS update utility (not live update). I have not attempted the BIOS Hard Reset procedure - I will, if you really think it's a box we need to check. I very much appreciate your help. Could there be something wrong with the new video card? Or the MOBO?
 

newc1975

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Yes, I really think it's something you need to do or I wouldn't have suggested it. This fixes more problems than you would even believe. Not ever problem to be sure, but more than it has any right to.
Copy that! OK done - it was easier than I thought. Unfortunately, as I was writing this reply after completing the Bios Hard Reset procedure - the keyboard stopped responding for about 15 seconds - then magically what I typed appeared and everything seemed to go back to normal. The plan is to record live music on this machine - I haven't installed my DAW because pauses during recording or mastering would be a disaster. I'm going to use the machine tonight for a few hours to see if I can detect any improvement. Thanks again for your input!
 

newc1975

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Is this only the keyboard this happens with? Are there problems with the mouse or other things, or is it ONLY keyboard input lag?
Sometimes it's the keyboard, sometimes it's a mouse click, sometimes Audio playback pauses. In games, the screen and mouse freeze but the sound still plays. I think it is much better after the Bios Hard Reset. I'll see what happens after using the machine in the next few days. I'll need to watch a video and see what happens.
 
Do you have the latest drivers installed from the manufacturer's website for both your keyboard and mouse, and did you install the latest drivers from the motherboard product page for ALL of the components onboard, LAN/Ethernet, audio, chipset, etc.? Didn't skip any of them?

Do you have any external drives attached?
 

newc1975

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Do you have the latest drivers installed from the manufacturer's website for both your keyboard and mouse, and did you install the latest drivers from the motherboard product page for ALL of the components onboard, LAN/Ethernet, audio, chipset, etc.? Didn't skip any of them?

Do you have any external drives attached?

I have installed the latest drivers for:
Realtek Audio
Lan/Ethernet
Chipset
I did not update the SATA drivers

Evidently the inexpensive Redragon keyboard/mouse (model S-101-3)I purchased from Amazon, Redragon is no longer supporting the mouse. For the life of me - I can't find software for the mouse which evidently exists. Currently the driver is the standard WIN 10 driver. The keyboard does not require a driver (per the manual).

I do have an external backup drive - WD easy/store (USB)
None of my drives are set up for indexing.

Current rig:
CPU - AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (new)
MOBO - MSI Tomahawk B450 MS 7C02 - BIOS 1.B0
GPU RX 5700 8 GIG (new)
RAM - 2X8 Ballistix 3200 DDR4 (new)
PSU - EVGA GQ 750 (new)
Storage:
SSD PNY CS1111 240 GIG (Win 10 home - 10.0.18363 Build 18363)
HDD Seagate Firecuda 2TB (new)
HDD Seagate Barracuda 1 TB
HDD Easystore 1TB (USB backup)
Monitor - ACER KG240 freesync
Sound - Realtek onboard
Speakers - Creative Inspire T3-100 2.1
Optical drives - 2
Mouse and Keyboard - Redragon Model S101-3 gaming

I am crossing my fingers - the machine has been almost perfect the last two days.
 
If the problem comes back, try disconnecting the external drive. I have two 8TB versions of that WD easy store and when they are connected I sometimes have some lag issues or weird random problems as well as loooong boot times.

Also, if you can, try a different motherboard and mouse, if the problem returns. Sometimes these lag issues are a direct result of poor quality peripheral hardware, especially if it's not well supported.
 

newc1975

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If the problem comes back, try disconnecting the external drive. I have two 8TB versions of that WD easy store and when they are connected I sometimes have some lag issues or weird random problems as well as loooong boot times.

Also, if you can, try a different motherboard and mouse, if the problem returns. Sometimes these lag issues are a direct result of poor quality peripheral hardware, especially if it's not well supported.


Thanks - again - for your help.
It's still just a little quirky, but much better.
I will try to disconnect the USB drive and see if things are improved.
I can easily try a standard USB mouse and keyboard.
Have a happy Thanksgiving!
 

newc1975

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Unfortunately, things have gotten worse. Lately, watching YouTube videos randomly, the screen goes black for for a few seconds and then returns (when it comes back it looks like - sometimes- video quality deteriorates). It still randomly doesn't respond to mouse clicks or keyboard input (I am now using a generic USB mouse and keyboard - not gaming equipment). My USB backup drive is disconnected. I made sure all the drivers are up to date - downloaded from the manufacturers websites. I did not use the MSI live update - in fact, I reinstalled anything live update installed. The machine is just unstable. I am using an older BIOS 1.B0, I had the newer BIOS 1.C0 installed previously but the issues were evident. There is a newer BETA BIOS available on the MSI website 1.D0(beta) - I am wondering if I should try installing it. The only new thing is- I purchased Norton 360 Delux for $20/year - 5 devices- mostly because it included a VPN. It is interesting that the youtube video playback interruptions seemed to have started after installing the Norton. However, when I was using Win Defender all the rest of the issues (missing key strokes, freezing, missing mouse clicks, games freezing) were still taking place. I am going to turn Norton off and see if the video you tube video issues continue. Thanks as always for your time and input!
 
My upgraded rig is freezing -randomly - then always unfreezing- - without any apparent harm to what I am doing. Happens more frequently and for a longer time (always less than 1 min) when playing games but can happen using word processing or on the web.

This is a fresh Win 10 home install
Ran RAM testing in windows - all good
Ran testing on storage drives - no failures on simple testing (Seagate utilities)
Tried disconnecting the older hard drives - still happens - the Firecuda is brand new
All drivers are the latest I can find
Bios installed in the latest

Running out of ideas - what else might I try to stop the freezing??

Here's my upgraded rig:
CPU - AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (new)
MOBO - MSI Tomahawk B450 - latest BIOS 1.C0 (new)
GPU RX 5700 8 GIG (new)
RAM - 2X8 Ballistix 3200 DDR4 (new)
PS - Xion XON 1000P 14HE
Storage:
SSD PNY CS1111 240 GIG (Win 10 home)
HDD Seagate Firecuda 2TB (new)
HDD Seagate Barracuda 1 TB
HDD Easystore 1TB (USB backup)
Monitor - ACER KG240 freesync
Sound - Realtek onboard
Speakers - Creative Inspire T3-100 2.1
Optical drives - 2
Mouse and Keyboard - Redragon Model S101-3 gaming
most of the times, freezing while gaming or word processing has been the ram to be suspicious... use 1 stick and then test all the ram modules and motherboard ram ports and see which is faulty, also it can happen if u have unknowinly bent any cpu pins...