Question Cheap upgrade or wait?

[Isaac Zackary]

Approximate Purchase Date: Not sure if some day soon or in three years (See "Why Upgrading" below).

Budget Range: $250

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Video Conferencing, file managing, emails, Arduino and similar projects, web browsing

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: Mobo, CPU, RAM, PSU

Do you need to buy OS: I don't think I do. (Personal Windows 7 Key)
Please note that if you're using an OEM license of Windows, you will need a new one when buying a new motherboard.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg
Location: Colorado Rocky mountains, 4-5 hours from Denver or Grand Junction in middle of nowhere.

Parts Preferences: Prefer Intel

Overclocking: No

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: Dual 1600x1200 monitors (HDMI, DVI or VGA)

Additional Comments: I use a lot of drives (6 SATA), use an old PS2 keyboard with integrated PS2 trackpad and have 4 USB 2 ports and two USB 3 ports on the front. Ethernet is fine, I don't need Wi-Fi.

The current comptuer is a Origin case with 4 x 3.5" removeable hard drive bays and two 2.5" drive bays and a DVD drive I still use on occasion. I only use one of the 2.5" bays for a Sata SSD. The rest I do use quite regularly. There are a couple USB 3 ports and three USB 2 ports with a card reader that goes to the forth USB2 port on the MOBO. I do use the SD card reader often.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: The current setup (ASUS ROG Maximus IV Extreme with Core i7-2600K, 16G RAM and dual GeForceGTX 590's) keeps crashing every once in a while. That and USB devices stop being recognized properly randomly until I not only restart the computer but unplug it for a while before plugging it back in. If not, it may crash once or sometimes twice a day if I don't restart it for USB problems first. It seems to be much less of a problem if I hibernate the computer and leave it unplugged all night. It's just enough to make me feel like maybe I should upgrade, but then I get into the habit of unplugging it every night and feel maybe it'll be fine until Microsoft retires Windows 10.

I was thinking of doing a cheap upgrade of the latest Intel MOBO and CPU. I thought this might work:

• $115 Open box ASUS PRIME B660M-A AC D4 board would work (can fit an extra large extended ATX board if I wanted in this case).
• $40 Celeron g6900
• $55 Samsung Memory M378A2K43BB1-CPB 16GB DDR4 2133MHz Unbuffered Bare
• $35 EVGA W3 450W 80+ for good measure.

Or do I figure what keeps crashing it and fix that and keep the computer as long as possible, perhaps saving up for a better CPU or something?

 

[Lafong]

An "Office style" computer wouldn't need a video card at all...and would be fine with any decent PSU of say 450 to 550 and using integrated graphics.

I haven't used a video card in over 10 years.

Your PSU needs are dependent to some extent on exactly what GPU setup you will have going forward.

No GPU at all?

1 GPU that might boost overall PSU requirements to say 650?

2 GPUs?

What specific GPU or GPUs?

Decide on the GPU setup before you take the plunge on the PSU if possible. If you can't or won't decide on the GPU arrangement, then I guess you have to plan for worst case scenario and go up to 850 watts or higher because you can't decide.

Many would say you are living on borrowed time with your stuff all being over 10 years old....but it could last another 10 years. Or another hour.

 

[Isaac Zackary]

An "Office style" computer wouldn't need a video card at all...and would be fine with any decent PSU of say 450 to 550 and using integrated graphics.

I haven't used a video card in over 10 years.

Your PSU needs are dependent to some extent on exactly what GPU setup you will have going forward.

No GPU at all?

1 GPU that might boost overall PSU requirements to say 650?

2 GPUs?

What specific GPU or GPUs?

Decide on the GPU setup before you take the plunge on the PSU if possible. If you can't or won't decide on the GPU arrangement, then I guess you have to plan for worst case scenario and go up to 850 watts or higher because you can't decide.

Many would say you are living on borrowed time with your stuff all being over 10 years old....but it could last another 10 years. Or another hour.

Mmm...
So you're saying I need to decide whether I want to swap the MOBO and CPU (and RAM) before deciding what PSU to get? Makes sense.

I base my long term longevity on the sunset of Windows 10. I can't see myself using a computer that's not Windows 11 (or 12) compatible once Windows 10 is gone.

I guess I need to figure out:

• What's a decent PSU?

Decent brands would be Corsair (some models), Seasonic, Super Flower, some EVGA, and others I can't recall.

• What's the difference in price between a 450W and a 650W PSU?
• Is there any way to make sure it's only the PSU or perhaps any way to figure out if it's something else like the CPU, MOBO or RAM or something else?

 

[Isaac Zackary]

On Newegg, Seasonic's cheapest PSU is 500W, the 650W is only $10 more...
Their Focus Linup also has the 650W only $10 more than the 500W...

So maybe a 650W wouldn't be bad to try with what I have now. I might lose $10 in the long run if I have to change everything now, but at least I could just try changing the PSU alone (and downsizing to one graphics card) before taking the plunge into a new MOBO, CPU, RAM, Water Block and possibly change out the 11 year-old SSD.

 

[Lafong]

No.

I'm saying to decide on your GPU needs before buying anything.

Price differences among PSUs....go look for yourself on Newegg or Amazon. Maybe 50 bucks difference between the plausible candidates?

Tough to find a "high quality" PSU of 450 watts. You may be forced into 550 plus whether you need it or not.

PSUs problems are typically identified by swapping in another PSU. If the problem goes away, you make the assumption it was the PSU that caused the problem.

But you don't have a spare to swap in as a test.

Here's one possible idea:

1; decide on your GPU requirements going forward

2; buy a new PSU based on that requirement.

3; if the new PSU solves your crashing issue, stop there and ride with your current motherboard, RAM, and CPU as long as possible.

4; if the new PSU does NOT solve your crashing issue, speculate that it's a motherboard problem and at the point buy a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM to go with the new PSU.

Maybe run a thorough RAM test also.

Ignoring your crashing issue for the moment....does a single GPU that you already own do what you need to do? If yes, buy a PSU based on what that GPU might require.

 

[Lafong]

On Newegg, Seasonic's cheapest PSU is 500W, the 650W is only $10 more...
Their Focus Linup also has the 650W only $10 more than the 500W...

So maybe a 650W wouldn't be bad to try with what I have now. I might lose $10 in the long run if I have to change everything now, but at least I could just try changing the PSU alone (and downsizing to one graphics card) before taking the plunge into a new MOBO, CPU, RAM, Water Block and possibly change out the 11 year-old SSD.

Now you are getting the idea.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

you're saying I need to decide whether I want to swap the MOBO and CPU (and RAM) before deciding what PSU to get?

the question would be more on the lines of what type of system you would plan on upgrading to down the road;
what type of gaming you may do, what resolution you may want to use, what type of settings you would want in-game, etc.
which would determine what graphics card you may want and how much power it may require.

lower > mid range cards may get by with 650w or even lower but any better may require ~850w.

 

[Isaac Zackary]

the question would be more on the lines of what type of system you would plan on upgrading to down the road;
what type of gaming you may do, what resolution you may want to use, what type of settings you would want in-game, etc.
which would determine what graphics card you may want and how much power it may require.

lower > mid range cards may get by with 650w or even lower but any better may require ~850w.

1; decide on your GPU requirements going forward

2; buy a new PSU based on that requirement.

3; if the new PSU solves your crashing issue, stop there and ride with your current motherboard, RAM, and CPU as long as possible.

That's the thing. If I keep my MOBO I need a GPU because there ain't any way of using the integrated graphics even if my CPU had integrated graphics.

But if I upgrade, I would steer clear of getting a graphics card because I'd just go with integrated graphics.

PSUs problems are typically identified by swapping in another PSU.

Darn it! A few months ago I had a 750W PSU taking up space in the storage shed and I finally took it to recycles.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

But if I upgrade, I would steer clear of getting a graphics card because I'd just go with integrated graphics.

if you have no plan for ever doing any intensive gaming or adding a dedicated graphics card then 650w would even be overkill for any future build.

 

[Isaac Zackary]

if you have no plan for ever doing any intensive gaming or adding a dedicated graphics card then 650w would even be overkill for any future build.

Not unless we start going with holographic displays.

Thanks for all the help!

I will try a new PSU for now. It sounds like a Seasonic 650W Gold will be it since I'm stuck with this graphics card for now.

If it fixes the problem, I'll keep this setup another three years. If it doesn't then I'll look into a new MOBO and CPU.

Thanks!

 

[Lafong]

That's the thing. If I keep my MOBO I need a GPU because there ain't any way of using the integrated graphics even if my CPU had integrated graphics.

But if I upgrade, I would steer clear of getting a graphics card because I'd just go with integrated graphics.

I take that to mean that you have determined that integrated graphics is enough for any gaming plans you have in the future.

And that the ONLY reason you use a GPU now is because you have no integrated graphics of any kind on your current hardware.

If that is true, any new PSU would have to be stout enough for your current GPU. If it's stout enough for that, it's certainly more than plenty for integrated graphics.

Can you sell all of your current GPUs and get out of the GPU business entirely? Or at least one of them? Why not, if you don't need them.

If your gaming needs would be met with integrated graphics, I'd assume you would be putting only moderate demands on any GPU you now own.

I'd be thinking of maybe a 650 watt PSU. Even if 500 is enough for integrated graphics, the 650 might give you a little cushion for your current GPU.

 

[Isaac Zackary]

I take that to mean that you have determined that integrated graphics is enough for any gaming plans you have in the future.

And that the ONLY reason you use a GPU now is because you have no integrated graphics of any kind on your current hardware.

Correct!

If that is true, any new PSU would have to be stout enough for your current GPU. If it's stout enough for that, it's certainly more than plenty for integrated graphics.

Can you sell all of your current GPUs and get out of the GPU business entirely? Or at least one of them? Why not, if you don't need them.

I'd sell one of them. The current motherboard does not have any graphics ports at all and does not support integrated graphics. The CPU also does not have integrated graphics. So I can't get rid of a graphics card until I change both the motherboard and CPU.

I could get a much cheaper graphics card for now and sell both of these. But only if I change the motherboard and CPU would I be able to get out of the GPU business entirely.

If your gaming needs would be met with integrated graphics, I'd assume you would be putting only moderate demands on any GPU you now own.

I'd be thinking of maybe a 650 watt PSU. Even if 500 is enough for integrated graphics, the 650 might give you a little cushion for your current GPU.

Let me put it this way, the few games I've played don't seem to be any different at all by playing them on a Surface Go 1 with a 6W integrated graphics Intel Pentium Gold 4415Y CPU.

But yes, I'd need a cushion for my current GPU.

Is $115 for a Seasonic 650W 80+ Gold a good price for performance?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

Is $115 for a Seasonic 650W 80+ Gold a good price for performance?

there have been some very good deals this year on Corsair RMx, Super Flower Leadex III, and be quiet! Dark Power 12 units. some of the best models available.
750-850w going for less than $120.

whether you will find one at this moment or can wait until sales kick in again i guess would be the question.

 

[Lafong]

I'd sell one of them........................So I can't get rid of a graphics card until I change both the motherboard and CPU.

I could get a much cheaper graphics card for now and sell both of these. But only if I change the motherboard and CPU would I be able to get out of the GPU business entirely.

Is $115 for a Seasonic 650W 80+ Gold a good price for performance?

What specific Seasonic? Link to it. I don't see any for 115 in stock at my normal sources.

You say you would sell 1 GPU and also say you can't get rid of a graphics card.

I don't follow that. You can now or you can't now. If you have 2, why can't you sell 1? You need 2 if you don't change motherboards?

I wouldn't buy ANY more graphics cards. Why? You already have 2 that you would not need if you change motherboards.

You might keep 1 of the 2 on the off chance you are not satisfied with integrated graphics.

 

[Isaac Zackary]

What specific Seasonic? Link to it. I don't see any for 115 in stock at my normal sources.

There's this one for $69.99 with a 5 year warranty:
Seasonic S12III 650 SSR-650GB3 650W 80+ Bronze Power Supply - Newegg.com

Or this one for $119.89 with a 7 year warranty:
Seasonic FOCUS GM-650, 650W 80+ Gold, Semi-Modular, Fits All ATX Systems, Fan Control in Silent and Cooling Mode, 7 Year Warranty, Perfect Power Supply for Gaming and Various Application, SSR-650FM - Newegg.com

You say you would sell 1 GPU and also say you can't get rid of a graphics card.

I don't follow that. You can now or you can't now. If you have 2, why can't you sell 1? You need 2 if you don't change motherboards?

I don't see why I would need two graphics cards. These are dual-GPU cards. It is running Quad-SLI (four GPU's at the same) time right now. I'm pretty sure I can get rid of one card with two GPU's on it and just use the other, and still have dual SLI. No need in having two card that use nearly 420W each for video-conferencing.

I wouldn't buy ANY more graphics cards. Why? You already have 2 that you would not need if you change motherboards.

You might keep 1 of the 2 on the off chance you are not satisfied with integrated graphics.

• These cards are 11 years old.
• I'm not sure they fulfill Windows 11 requirements.
• They use up to 420W a piece.
• I don't game.
• Integrated graphics on my Surface Go tablet and other computers seem to be more than enough already.
• If I can sell them for money, that would cater to my frugal side.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

There's this one for $69.99 with a 5 year warranty:
Seasonic S12III 650 SSR-650GB3 650W 80+ Bronze Power Supply - Newegg.com

Or this one for $119.89 with a 7 year warranty:
Seasonic FOCUS GM-650, 650W 80+ Gold, Semi-Modular, Fits All ATX Systems, Fan Control in Silent and Cooling Mode, 7 Year Warranty, Perfect Power Supply for Gaming and Various Application, SSR-650FM - Newegg.com

warranty says a lot for the quality of any power supply.
if the manufacturer doesn't expect it to last over 5 years that's telling you something.

the S12 III is a rather low quality unit.
it may be okay for lower end, low power requirement systems but i wouldn't want to risk my components with it.

the FOCUS GM is a much higher quality option intended for intensive use systems.
this one i wouldn't have any issue with using.
i would normally look for something with a 10 year warranty but this unit is highly praised and not known for malfunctioning.

 

[logainofhades]

For $100, this is a steal. The G6 is the same price.

PCPartPicker Part List

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P6 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ EVGA)
Total: $99.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-08-13 21:35 EDT-0400

 

[Isaac Zackary]

The SuperNOVA P6 has a 10 year warranty instead of 7, but half an egg rating less on Newegg.

 

[Lafong]

The SuperNOVA P6 has a 10 year warranty instead of 7, but half an egg rating less on Newegg.

Newegg ratings are marginally useful. I wouldn't draw distinctions based on half an egg.

Tough to separate the wheat from the chaff in the Newegg comments....lots of unknowns, lots of user errors, lots of unrealistic expectations. Same as with Amazon.

Try to find an actual review of that specific EVGA P6.

 

[logainofhades]

Newegg reviews are some of the worst I have ever seen. More often than not, it is PEBKAC, and not the fault of the product.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

Newegg reviews are some of the worst I have ever seen

it seems i used to see a lot more in-depth intelligent reviews there years ago.

but you are right, these days it's more complaints about things that have nothing to do with hardware quality or manufacturer defects and more user mishaps/mistakes.