News China Backdoors US Chip Sanctions, Buys Used Banned Equipment

[Admin]

Chinese chipmakers accelerate wafer fab equipment purchases.

China Backdoors US Chip Sanctions, Buys Used Banned Equipment : Read more

 

[USAFRet]

Preemptively - No politics, no conspiracy, no insults.

Unless you personally want to get banned.

 

[vanadiel007]

In the end, who this is really hurting are the consumers. Prices of anything that uses chips, from cars to electronics, is rising sharply while every Company that uses these chips is posting healthy profits.

It would likely be cheaper for consumers to simply give x amount of money to x amount of companies and get back to the "old ways" when chips were abundant and things were more affordable.

 

[Fates_Demise]

Preemptively - No politics, no conspiracy, no insults.

Unless you personally want to get banned.

Um.. dude the entire article is based on political issues.

 

[USAFRet]

Um.. dude the entire article is based on political issues.

um, dude.....left long enough (like an hour or so), and the political comments will descend into mudslinging, conspiracy theory, and total falsehoods.

My comment was a preempttive warning, in an attempt to keep things in check.

It won't work, but I had to make the attempt.

 

[-Fran-]

In the end, who this is really hurting are the consumers. Prices of anything that uses chips, from cars to electronics, is rising sharply while every Company that uses these chips is posting healthy profits.

It would likely be cheaper for consumers to simply give x amount of money to x amount of companies and get back to the "old ways" when chips were abundant and things were more affordable.

There is a lot of what you're saying and I don't disagree, but there's also another side which is complexity and pure demand of "silicon".

Now, in everyone's day to day life, there's plenty of completely unrelated things which are in need of chips of different kinds and processing capabilities: things that used to use one chip, now probably use a board full of them or require a more complex chip... Most of those, while don't need to be in the latest nodes, still need to be manufactured somewhere. This demand has increased over the years to a point where it's probably a handful of Companies that can provide the tooling for such a task (ASML being the main one from memory).

Leaving all the baggage of history and politics on the side, it's more than just Companies being greedy why the prices have gone up a lot, I'd say.

The only way would be to have some tangible breakthroughs in other manufacturing or processing type.

Regards.

 

[rluker5]

It seems like a lot of sanctions are getting backdoored.
That sounds worse than I intended, but if you check the reviews from online stores not based in the west, stuff seems to be getting sold to whomever wants to buy. And that's just the stuff plainly out in the open.

But at least the large companies are still listening to those making the sanctions for now.

 

[vanadiel007]

There is a lot of what you're saying and I don't disagree, but there's also another side which is complexity and pure demand of "silicon".

Now, in everyone's day to day life, there's plenty of completely unrelated things which are in need of chips of different kinds and processing capabilities: things that used to use one chip, now probably use a board full of them or require a more complex chip... Most of those, while don't need to be in the latest nodes, still need to be manufactured somewhere. This demand has increased over the years to a point where it's probably a handful of Companies that can provide the tooling for such a task (ASML being the main one from memory).

Leaving all the baggage of history and politics on the side, it's more than just Companies being greedy why the prices have gone up a lot, I'd say.

The only way would be to have some tangible breakthroughs in other manufacturing or processing type.

Regards.

Apparently we still have major global supply chain issues, well after 2 years of the start of the global supply chain issues.
There does not seem to be a huge rush in addressing those supply chain issues, and I think that is partially due to the opportunities low supply provides for those who sell such supplies.

If I would run a supply chain company I would be in no rush either since there would be good money in it for me.
But in the end it's hurting the consumers and it does not look to me like companies care about that.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

If they hurt the consumers enough, there will be a huge backlash

personally, I don’t want all these cars with all this gobbledygook inside them. I want them fixable by an average Joe mechanic. I don’t want chips in my cars. I don’t want chips in my appliances. I don’t want chips in my anything except my computer and phone and tv

 

[bit_user]

while every Company that uses these chips is posting healthy profits.

Oh, really? Care to give some examples?

It would likely be cheaper for consumers to simply give x amount of money to x amount of companies

First, I'm not sure it would be cheaper, since the amounts of money we're talking about are potentially big even by comparison with the US CHIPS act. Second, it misses the point of the sanctions, which I guess we're not allowed to discuss.

 

[bit_user]

personally, I don’t want all these cars with all this gobbledygook inside them.

If your car is less than about 35 years old, it definitely has chips inside of it. And I don't just mean in the radio.

Microelectronics is completely ubiquitous. It's involved at multiple points even in the production and manufacturing of everything you buy. Banning chips really means going back in a time warp to the 1970s, except the tech of that era would be creaking under the strain of current populations and density and the result would probably plunge us into an economic depression.

I want them fixable by an average Joe mechanic.

You just need a different kind of mechanic. The DIY repair movement has shown that people can fix a lot of the electronics we use today.

And even without chips, your "average Joe mechanic" mostly just swaps parts. They might swap in a rebuilt alternator, but they don't refurbish it themselves - that's done by a specialist. Heck, the guys who fix my car won't even rebuild brake calipers - and they're pretty good.

 

[USAFRet]

personally, I don’t want all these cars with all this gobbledygook inside them. I want them fixable by an average Joe mechanic. I don’t want chips in my cars.

My truck, which is a state certified "Antique" has 'chips' in it.

And I have fixed and/or diagnosed a WIDE variety of issues in all my vehicles. From the mid 90's Saturn to the 2018 Subaru. All in my driveway.

 

[Geef]

Maybe they should modify the ban so it only affects tech that is 15 or 20+ years old. That way normal stuff that was made in 2008 or older can still be made by everyone around the world. They wouldn't be making mega CPUs or anything but they could make the chips that control your electric toothbrush and microwave just fine.

 

[Adaptation]

Preemptively - No politics, no conspiracy, no insults.

Unless you personally want to get banned.

Seeing as how this article is entirely about international politics I guess we are not permitted to comment on it.

 

[COLGeek]

Closing this thread now. Thank you to all who contributed.