News China Denies iPhone Ban, but the Devil Is in the Details

[Admin]

China's Foreign Ministry affairs has clarified media reports that iPhones had been "soft-banned" from government administration services. But the devil is in the details, and concerns around cybersecurity could be weaponized in the East as they have been in the West.

China Denies iPhone Ban, but the Devil Is in the Details : Read more

 

[hotaru251]

not being political

but if day ever came when China banned Iphone...could you imagine the drop in Apple stock value?

 

[anbello262]

Weren't Huawei phones kinda strongly "recommended against" in the USA/government some years ago?

So banning specific brands doesn't sound so uncommon for me

(I don't mean anything political, I'm just discussing the wording in the article)

 

[sauve.richard]

Weren't Huawei phones kinda strongly "recommendwd against" in the USA/government some years ago?

So banning specific brands doesn't sound so uncommon for me

(I don't mean anything political, I'm just discussing the wording in the article)

Actually Huawei and ZTE were both banned for their telecommunications equipment under the Trump era in 2018. (this is not a diatribe against Trump btw). It ended up extending to things like phones, though the details of the phone thing I don't have all the details of, so I'm not sure actual phones were banned outside of gov't personnel. But it's a good point made, well done

 

[bit_user]

So banning specific brands doesn't sound so uncommon for me

IMO, it was just a matter of time before Apple was squeezed out of the Chinese market, in one way or another. We started to see nationalist backlash against the iPhone already building, at least a couple years ago.

The main upside I can see from these bans is that we'll hopefully no longer have US corporations kowtowing to China. If they don't make stuff there & can't sell there, then there's no more need for them to play footsie with the CCP. Over the past couple decades, I think China has mastered the art of the rope-a-dope game, knowing just how much to let foreign companies nibble at the carrot, before yanking it back.

 

[bit_user]

Actually Huawei and ZTE were both banned for their telecommunications equipment under the Trump era in 2018. (this is not a diatribe against Trump btw).

The actual ban was on government communications infrastructure relying on their equipment, I think. The controversial aspect was that China was ahead in 5G tech and their gear was also cheaper. It looked anti-competitive, but it's not as if any US equipment makers were ready to fill the void on 5G, at least.

It ended up extending to things like phones, though the details of the phone thing I don't have all the details of, so I'm not sure actual phones were banned outside of gov't personnel. But it's a good point made, well done

The phone thing was actually not an import ban, but rather an export ban. US technologies & services were banned from being used by Huawei, which immediately hit their handset sales & support, since it included IP licensing & support by ARM and Android/Google. I think there was never an import ban on them.

 

[Geef]

Here is the reason Huawei was banned:

US finds Huawei has backdoor access to mobile networks globally​

Huawei caught red-handed: The company has backdoor access to mobile networks worldwide​

It is not just Huawei. Its ZTE and Xiaomi phones as well.

 

[MoxNix]

Here is the reason Huawei was banned:

US finds Huawei has backdoor access to mobile networks globally​

Huawei caught red-handed: The company has backdoor access to mobile networks worldwide​

It is not just Huawei. Its ZTE and Xiaomi phones as well.

And you think the US doesn't have the same access with iPhones?

 

[bit_user]

And you think the US doesn't have the same access with iPhones?

No, there was a famous case where the FBI tried to get a court order to force Apple to unlock a suspected terrorist's phone. Apple seems very serious about privacy and there's no legal mechanism for the US government to force a company to place backdoors in its products.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

^ exactly that, the one company that takes privacy and security seriously and china says it has concerns.

But we can already see Xiomi copying apple designs, it was all already in the making maybe...

 

[M0rtis]

Apple had to double down on privacy and security after the whole iCloud Celebgate or Fappening whatever it was called. Until then they were enjoying and promoting the illusion that Apple products and the ecosystem doesnt get viruses and is unhackable and so on.

 

[Timmy!]

No, there was a famous case where the FBI tried to get a court order to force Apple to unlock a suspected terrorist's phone. Apple seems very serious about privacy and there's no legal mechanism for the US government to force a company to place backdoors in its products.

I've wondered about this. I think there's been at least a couple of times where an Israeli security firm has accessed 'secure' iPhones:

Cellebrite can unlock any iPhone (for some values of “any”)

Forensics contractor’s “Advanced Unlocking Service” still has to brute-force passcodes.

arstechnica.com

It makes me wonder if Apple has both backdoors for its tech as well as plausible deniability about the existence of it. I.e. it publicly says that its phones are secure and they won't give the authorities access to its customers' phones but, conveniently, there is a company, outside of the US, which can do just that for US authorities. It seems a little suss.

 

[bit_user]

I've wondered about this. I think there's been at least a couple of times where an Israeli security firm has accessed 'secure' iPhones:

Yes, there are such firms which specialize in phone hacking and probably devote a lot more resources & expertise to it than the FBI.

It makes me wonder if Apple has both backdoors for its tech as well as plausible deniability about the existence of it. I.e. it publicly says that its phones are secure and they won't give the authorities access to its customers' phones but, conveniently, there is a company, outside of the US, which can do just that for US authorities. It seems a little suss.

No, it makes no sense. Why would Apple give some rando security firm in a different country unfettered access to its phones? If they were going to give access to anyone, it would be governmental authorities, under court order. That's the best chance of keeping details of any backdoors under wraps. Once you let a 3rd party have it, you lose all control and any real recourse.

However, the main issue with your reasoning is that you seem to believe their phones are completely unhackable and therefore must have been accessed via a specially-designed backdoor. If you follow cybersecurity news at all, people are continually finding new ways to crack into computers and devices. I believe Apple hasn't designed any backdoors into their phones or devices because, once such a backdoor is discovered, you lose all control over it.

 

[Timmy!]

No, it makes no sense. Why would Apple give some rando security firm in a different country unfettered access to its phones? If they were going to give access to anyone, it would be governmental authorities, under court order...

However, the main issue with your reasoning is that you seem to believe their phones are completely unhackable and therefore must have been accessed via a specially-designed backdoor. If you follow cybersecurity news at all, people are continually finding new ways to crack into computers and devices. I believe Apple hasn't designed any backdoors into their phones or devices because, once such a backdoor is discovered, you lose all control over it.

Apple projects an image that its devices are secure and it fights law enforcement demands for access to its users' devices. I'm wondering whether the use of that overseas company is a charade which contradicts all of Apple's public statements. I.e. Apple gives the authorities what they want without being seen to give the authorities what they want. It's a win/win for them.

It's known that governments around the world want the tech companies to provide them 'special' access to users' tech devices etc. You can't manufacture products etc. for just one such country...so the entire product line would be compromised. Maybe tech companies are already submitting to pressure from governments on this issue. We won't know unless there is a whistleblower to warn us. That will be a huge scandal of course.

If You Build It, They Will Come: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship Around the World

Apple’s new program for scanning images sent on iMessage steps back from the company’s prior support for the privacy and security of encrypted messages. The program, initially limited to the United States, narrows the understanding of end-to-end encryption to allow for client-side scanning. While...

www.eff.org

 

[bit_user]

Apple projects an image that its devices are secure and it fights law enforcement demands for access to its users' devices. I'm wondering whether the use of that overseas company is a charade which contradicts all of Apple's public statements. I.e. Apple gives the authorities what they want without being seen to give the authorities what they want. It's a win/win for them.

Present compelling supporting evidence or drop it. This is a news site - not a place to birth or spread conspiracy theories.

If You Build It, They Will Come: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship Around the World

Apple’s new program for scanning images sent on iMessage steps back from the company’s prior support for the privacy and security of encrypted messages. The program, initially limited to the United States, narrows the understanding of end-to-end encryption to allow for client-side scanning. While...

www.eff.org

That's not actually supporting your claim. That's a different matter affecting content filtering & messaging privacy, but isn't a carte blanche backdoor for accessing the phone's content.