China Meets With Micron Over DRAM Price Increases

[PaulAlcorn]

It's certainly not news to enthusiasts that sky-high RAM pricing continues, but luckily government agencies and law firms are taking notice.

China Meets With Micron Over DRAM Price Increases : Read more

 

[dudmont]

I trust China not-at-all. The whole country is a giant collection racket. These kinds of things will only harm consumers in other locations. If China were a truly open society and had transparent policies and the government was truly responsive to it's citizens, I'd be a little less jaundiced about this. As it is I don't trust my own government(US) much less one that has zero accountability to it's own people. Chinese people exist at the willingness of it's government, not the other way around.

 

[hotaru251]

Wouldnt be the first time China has tried to manipulate prices <.<

and yeah i'd say 80% of governments are not trustworthy.


i will ofc cross fingers that by some miracle this lowers RAM prices.

 

[ElectrO_90]

We know the companies are price gouging us all, because you just have to see their profits sore.
If a company was being more honest (no matter which company it is) the profits reflect their contempt on the people.

 

[10tacle]

What's missing from this article is the fact that Samsung has invested $28 billion in a new semiconductor manufacturing facility right next door to their most recent built one which broke ground in 2015 to help close the gap on supply vs. demand needs in the future. It is nearly double the size of their other two fab plants combined. Both NAND and DRAM needs are expected to triple by 2025 compared to today. It's not price fixing. It's classic Econ 101 supply vs. demand any high school student understands (well from a quality school anyway).

Most of that growth in demand is between smart phones and servers (servers for Clouds specifically, much of which is tied to smart phones and their cellular telecom providers in the first place as just about everyone backs up their smart phones these days on iPhone or Samsung cloud services). To put things into perspective, ten years ago PC DRAM needs were 7x more than server DRAM needs. Today, server DRAM needs are 2x more than PC DRAM needs (PC DRAM needs meaning both motherboard memory and GPU memory).

In any event, this new fab facility, which can quickly switch between NAND and DRAM production as market needs require, is expected to be online by the end of this year or early 2019.

With that said,
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"Most of China's domestic DRAM production is expected to be sold in-country, as it might not pass muster for the international market due to possible patent violations. As a result, we might not see some of the familiar Chinese tactics, such as price dumping in international markets. In either case, the government-backed production is expected to offset some of China's memory imports, which would eventually result in cheaper chips for everyone."

I wouldn't trust a Chinese company made chip for all the tea in China, so to speak (yes, Samsung's new fab plant is in China, but Samsung runs it from an engineering level). No telling what kind of firmware China can deeply embed in them for western markets that can be triggered via operating system/service, especially the US. Recent case in point: https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-kryptowire-blu-products/

 

[dudmont]

10tacle, good answer. For me the whole thing is really simple. When it comes to governments, I don't have a choice, I have to buy their product(Which is why it's so expensive, the service is lousy, and all the other complaints). In short, they can use force to make me compliant. A business, on the other hand, will do everything, reasonable/possible, to get me to buy their product, because they don't have the option of force(in a properly run society that is). Notice I used the words reasonable and possible. Reasonable changes meaning in different circumstances too. A car dealer isn't going to sell me a car for a price that 12 other people are willing to pay more for, that would be unreasonable.

 

[Onus]

"...but luckily government agencies and law firms are taking notice..."
Historical evidence, I believe, suggests otherwise. The involvement in a productive activity by those who produce nothing of value is typically not a lucky occurrence.

 

[luckzeh]

No telling what kind of firmware China can deeply embed in them for western markets that can be triggered via operating system/service, especially the US.

In the context of https://www.tomshardware.com/news/fbi-anti-encryption-legislation-false-data,37099.html , there aren't many world powers whose products you should trust.

 

[10tacle]

In the context of https://www.tomshardware.com/news/fbi-anti-encryption-legislation-false-data,37099.html , there aren't many world powers whose products you should trust.

At the risk of going off topic, you think I don't know that? It's not like the FBI's leadership has a lot of public trust these days, especially considering what they've done to the current administration by operatives of the previous administration. Then there's the NSA who was exposed by Edward Snowden spying on not only Americans, but Europeans.

The past two decades definitely have not been a highlight of American leadership, values, and trust in said leadership. Oh wait. I don't think any government entity has EVER been trustworthy to uphold their oath of office to serve, protect, and defend. There's a reason Congress has a 12% approval rating.

 

[10tacle]

" The involvement in a productive activity by those who produce nothing of value is typically not a lucky occurrence.

"Those who produce nothing of value..."

I could not have described it better when referring to how the British Parliament, EU, and US Congress give value. What amazes me is how so many people put so much faith and trust in said entities to have their best interests at heart. This thinking is not random. New generations are being indoctrinated in primary education and college to put faith in a central authority power and to not question it. Ever. They have become and are becoming useful idiots who cannot form a single individual thought for themselves. They have become collectivists in herd mentality. We truly are living the days of 1984.

 

[dudmont]

" The involvement in a productive activity by those who produce nothing of value is typically not a lucky occurrence.

"Those who produce nothing of value..."

I could not have described it better when referring to how the British Parliament, EU, and US Congress give value. What amazes me is how so many people put so much faith and trust in said entities to have their best interests at heart. This thinking is not random. New generations are being indoctrinated in primary education and college to put faith in a central authority power and to not question it. Ever. They have become and are becoming useful idiots who cannot form a single individual thought for themselves. They have become collectivists in herd mentality. We truly are living the days of 1984.

Why do you think Bill Ayers and folks like him went into education field.

 

[dark_lord69]

Hope these changes are like night and day, like after the TV price fixing was resolved.
TV's are dirt cheap now.
My first LCD TV was MSRP at $1,600
Today, a better TV of the same size would cost $199 (That's 87% less)

Even a 50% reduction in DRAM prices would be really nice.

 

[10tacle]

Hope these changes are like night and day, like after the TV price fixing was resolved.
TV's are dirt cheap now.
My first LCD TV was MSRP at $1,600
Today, a better TV of the same size would cost $199 (That's 87% less)

That wasn't price fixing dude. That was new technology hitting the market with limited sales. As the market became more saturated and more sales happened, LCD HDTV (and PC monitors for that matter) started dropping in price due to economies of scale. Look at where OLED is right now: two years ago you couldn't find a 46" 4K one for under $10,000 USD. Now Best Buy has an LG 65" OLED 4K HDTV with HDR on sale for $2,500.

I remember when LCD 1080p big screen HDTVs averaged between $1,500-$2,000 in the late '00s when they were first released in large production. In 2011 I bought my first one, an LG 46" for $800. That was cheap back then, and today that size can be had for half that price if not less. And I can go further back than that and you may not have even been born yet: in 1995 I visited the Smithsonian technology museum in Washington DC. They had a Sony 50" plasma 720p HDTV on display showing a soccer match. Everyone was blown away at how we could see the faces of people in the crowds having been used to years (decades) of 480i/p resolution tube TVs.

When the first 720p plasmas were released in the early '00s, they were $5,000+. I bought my 42" made by Samsung in 2007 and it cost me nearly $2,000. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter of new tech. I still have that plasma too. I just don't use it much as it is a power and heat producing hog. Also I'm afraid of burn in. Price fixing has nothing to do with anything.

TL/DR: supply and demand and economies of production scale affect prices of anything.

 

[dark_lord69]

Hope these changes are like night and day, like after the TV price fixing was resolved.
TV's are dirt cheap now.
My first LCD TV was MSRP at $1,600
Today, a better TV of the same size would cost $199 (That's 87% less)

That wasn't price fixing dude. That was new technology hitting the market with limited sales. As the market became more saturated and more sales happened, LCD HDTV (and PC monitors for that matter) started dropping in price due to economies of scale. Look at where OLED is right now: two years ago you couldn't find a 46" 4K one for under $10,000 USD. Now Best Buy has an LG 65" OLED 4K HDTV with HDR on sale for $2,500.

I remember when LCD 1080p big screen HDTVs averaged between $1,500-$2,000 in the late '00s when they were first released in large production. In 2011 I bought my first one, an LG 46" for $800. That was cheap back then, and today that size can be had for half that price if not less. And I can go further back than that and you may not have even been born yet: in 1995 I visited the Smithsonian technology museum in Washington DC. They had a Sony 50" plasma 720p HDTV on display showing a soccer match. Everyone was blown away at how we could see the faces of people in the crowds having been used to years (decades) of 480i/p resolution tube TVs.

When the first 720p plasmas were released in the early '00s, they were $5,000+. I bought my 42" made by Samsung in 2007 and it cost me nearly $2,000. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter of new tech. I still have that plasma too. I just don't use it much as it is a power and heat producing hog. Also I'm afraid of burn in. Price fixing has nothing to do with anything.

TL/DR: supply and demand and economies of production scale affect prices of anything.

Read and learn:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/27/lcd-price-fixing-settlement_n_1171313.html
(This was 7 years ago.)

 

[dudmont]

Hope these changes are like night and day, like after the TV price fixing was resolved.
TV's are dirt cheap now.
My first LCD TV was MSRP at $1,600
Today, a better TV of the same size would cost $199 (That's 87% less)

That wasn't price fixing dude. That was new technology hitting the market with limited sales. As the market became more saturated and more sales happened, LCD HDTV (and PC monitors for that matter) started dropping in price due to economies of scale. Look at where OLED is right now: two years ago you couldn't find a 46" 4K one for under $10,000 USD. Now Best Buy has an LG 65" OLED 4K HDTV with HDR on sale for $2,500.

I remember when LCD 1080p big screen HDTVs averaged between $1,500-$2,000 in the late '00s when they were first released in large production. In 2011 I bought my first one, an LG 46" for $800. That was cheap back then, and today that size can be had for half that price if not less. And I can go further back than that and you may not have even been born yet: in 1995 I visited the Smithsonian technology museum in Washington DC. They had a Sony 50" plasma 720p HDTV on display showing a soccer match. Everyone was blown away at how we could see the faces of people in the crowds having been used to years (decades) of 480i/p resolution tube TVs.

When the first 720p plasmas were released in the early '00s, they were $5,000+. I bought my 42" made by Samsung in 2007 and it cost me nearly $2,000. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter of new tech. I still have that plasma too. I just don't use it much as it is a power and heat producing hog. Also I'm afraid of burn in. Price fixing has nothing to do with anything.

TL/DR: supply and demand and economies of production scale affect prices of anything.

When the mob gets the pitchforks out, there's 3 choices: join em, ignore them, or katy bar the door, get your shotgun and go on the roof and shout them down. Hard to use facts and logic on people who have drunk the cool-aid........ I applaud you.

 

[10tacle]

Read and learn:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/27/lcd-price-fixing-settlement_n_1171313.html
(This was 7 years ago.)

I had forgotten about that. Good catch. But they did get caught and it still doesn't answer all the other cases of new tech price dropping over time (like my aforementioned OLED price dropping). Like I said: economies of scale. Anyone who has taken college level classes in economics is familiar with this natural economic law. Also, that was from 1999-2006 which was a period prior to my price structure drop example of LCD TVs post-2006 (and OLEDs post-2016).

 

[10tacle]

When the mob gets the pitchforks out, there's 3 choices: join em, ignore them, or katy bar the door, get your shotgun and go on the roof and shout them down. Hard to use facts and logic on people who have drunk the cool-aid........ I applaud you.

Unfortunately, these days people are indoctrinated with a certain line of thinking. It starts in primary school, continues in colleges and universities, and is backed up by the main stream media. Facts don't matter when their brains were modified to think a certain way ("way" by meaning that corporations are inherently evil and greedy). Where do these people think the money comes from to invest in multi-billion dollar technology advancement? The sky?

But thanks for the reinforcement. I'm used to today's flat earthers who do not know what they do not know.