News China's Blacklisted YMTC Ships World-Leading 232-Layer 3D QLC NAND

[Admin]

YMTC first to ship 232-layer 3D QLC NAND memory, ahead of Micron, SK Hynix, and Solidigm.

China's Blacklisted YMTC Ships World-Leading 232-Layer 3D QLC NAND : Read more

 

[ivan_vy]

in the end sanctions didn't stop the dragon. Government funding R&D and a market too big make economy of scale feasible. They might be behind now but in the long term their products will be good enough and better in some instances. Outsourcing And Offshoring profits came with a -not so hidden- price.

 

[ThomasKinsley]

It's worth reading how committed Yangtze Memory Technologies was to making this happen. Based in Wuhan, Yangtze Memory Technologies saw a flurry of activity as trains continued to ferry experts back and forth to work during the height of the 2020 pandemic even as the rest of China was under lockdown.

How China's chip industry defied the coronavirus lockdown

Beijing bent Wuhan quarantine rules in a high-stakes bid for tech self-sufficiency

web.archive.org

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

This is to be expected since YMTE had access to purchase the appropriate tooling to manufacture 232 layer NAND until recently. The real benchmark for the affects of sanctions will be YMTE’s ability to stay competitive with higher layer counts in the future without access to the future western tooling.

 

[George³]

May I assume that the total number of computer professionals in China is greater than in the US, and that a greater percentage of them are engaged in progressive work? While in the US, a large percentage work in the entertainment industry and the advertising sector.

 

[anonymousdude]

This is to be expected since YMTE had access to purchase the appropriate tooling to manufacture 232 layer NAND until recently. The real benchmark for the affects of sanctions will be YMTE’s ability to stay competitive with higher layer counts in the future without access to the future western tooling.

Exactly, YMTC has all the machinery they needed to create this. It's not like it's some massive surprise or anything. The sanctions were never going to prevent any near term product development. The sanctions are to curtail future development. Give it a couple of years and let's see if YMTC can produce 300, 400, 500+ layer NAND. That's when you know if the sanctions are working.

Also, outside of Micron, every other major player in the NAND space effectively delayed their 200+ layer NAND products due to the current oversupply. Funny what happens when you commoditize something and spot pricing tanks for the commodity.

 

[George³]

Even the most advanced NAND flash today is made with mature lithographic nodes that are several generations ahead of those affected by the sanctions. Maybe "5"nm will meet nand flash only after 10 years. Number of layers isn't depending of nanometers and not related to existing sanctions.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

May I assume that the total number of computer professionals in China is greater than in the US, and that a greater percentage of them are engaged in progressive work? While in the US, a large percentage work in the entertainment industry and the advertising sector.

You may not, thank you

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Even the most advanced NAND flash today is made with mature lithographic nodes that are several generations ahead of those affected by the sanctions. Maybe "5"nm will meet nand flash only after 10 years. Number of layers isn't depending of nanometers and not related to existing sanctions.

YMTC cannot requisition new high aspect ratio etching instruments or metrology tools from the west, this will greatly affect their ability to increase layer count as the through stack bore hole becomes deeper and deeper for example.

 

[George³]

YMTC cannot requisition new high aspect ratio etching instruments from the west, this will greatly affect their ability to increase layer count as the through stack bore hole becomes deeper and deeper.

In article didn't mentioned etching. Where your knowledge about this come from? And where is determined in sanctions documents?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

In article didn't mentioned etching. Where your knowledge about this come from? And where is determined in sanctions documents?

That’s because Tom’s Hardware is not a semiconductor engineering journal.
It’s known industry knowledge.

 

[Order 66]

That’s because Tom’s Hardware is not a semiconductor engineering journal.
It’s known industry knowledge.

If it was, I am sure that a lot fewer people would use the site as most people wouldn't understand what is being talked about in a semiconductor engineering journal.

 

[ivan_vy]

Exactly, YMTC has all the machinery they needed to create this. It's not like it's some massive surprise or anything. The sanctions were never going to prevent any near term product development. The sanctions are to curtail future development. Give it a couple of years and let's see if YMTC can produce 300, 400, 500+ layer NAND. That's when you know if the sanctions are working.

Also, outside of Micron, every other major player in the NAND space effectively delayed their 200+ layer NAND products due to the current oversupply. Funny what happens when you commoditize something and spot pricing tanks for the commodity.

those years are oxygen to their tech industry, the political panorama might change, they might reach some development breakthrough, scoop more engineers and machinery or even Taiwan alignment could change ( in peaceful or forceful way). Never underestimate your competition.

 

[zsydeepsky]

YMTC cannot requisition new high aspect ratio etching instruments or metrology tools from the west, this will greatly affect their ability to increase layer count as the through stack bore hole becomes deeper and deeper for example.

however, China wasn't lagging behind at etching tools like lithography tools. it's actually one of the leading players in that field.
for example, in 2018, China's AMEC already made 5nm etching tools and been verified by TSMC, many chips on the market today were made possible by their tools:

AMEC 5nm plasma etching tools verified by TSMC

Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment (AMEC) announced recently its in-house developed 5nm plasma etching tools have been verified by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC).

www.digitimes.com

That’s because Tom’s Hardware is not a semiconductor engineering journal.
It’s known industry knowledge.

and Tom's hardware literally reported on it, just 2 months ago:

China Chipmaker Says it Is Replacing Sanctioned Tools Rapidly

AMEC reaps China's domestic market amid US sanctions.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

however, China wasn't lagging behind at etching tools like lithography tools. it's actually one of the leading players in that field.
for example, in 2018, China's AMEC already made 5nm etching tools and been verified by TSMC, many chips on the market today were made possible by their tools:

AMEC 5nm plasma etching tools verified by TSMC

Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment (AMEC) announced recently its in-house developed 5nm plasma etching tools have been verified by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC).

www.digitimes.com

and Tom's hardware literally reported on it, just 2 months ago:

China Chipmaker Says it Is Replacing Sanctioned Tools Rapidly

AMEC reaps China's domestic market amid US sanctions.

www.tomshardware.com

Not the same etching tool, high aspect ratio etching tools are made by one US company. Now maybe Chinese companies can eventually R&D their own but for now no.

And no Tom’s hardware did not discuss the intricacies of boring requirements of NAND stacks so idk what you are doing quoting my “engineering journal” segment.

 

[gg83]

Just another puff peice

 

[George³]

Not the same etching tool, high aspect ratio etching tools are made by one US company. Now maybe Chinese companies can eventually R&D their own but for now no.

And no Tom’s hardware did not discuss the intricacies of boring requirements of NAND stacks so idk what you are doing quoting my “engineering journal” segment.

Ok you have your knowledge... Propably have knowledge...writing one specific term in a comment is not very convincing. Anyone can search the internet and learn a few terms in a few minutes. But where is in your comments the citations or weblinks which claim that China industry has problems with etching machines?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Ok you have your knowledge... Propably have knowledge...writing one specific term in a comment is not very convincing. Anyone can search the internet and learn a few terms in a few minutes. But where is in your comments the citations or weblinks which claim that China industry has problems with etching machines?

Because I don’t have time to be your educator, you don’t trust me, then do your own homework. I work 14 hours a day and comment on these forums for fun.

 

[Co BIY]

Just another puff piece

Yes.

But in you can still learn something from it.

China's successes in these areas are real but they are also costly. Just like Intel and Samsung and TSMC's investments are costly.

That levels the playing field a bit. When the government put the focus on internal development of technology instead of something else then something had to give.