News Chinese Firm to Debut 'Breakthrough' 28nm Chipmaking Tool: Report

That process node will put them well in the range for making good NAND storage, since for write endurance, you typically want to be in the 30nm range to balance density and endurance. With good vertical integration, they could keep prices low while bringing back mass produced MLC and SLC SSDs.
 
It vexes me that a lot of ‘westerners’ seems to think Chinese scientists are dumb or nonexistent and only capable of the single function of copy-paste. I’ve read numerous research papers both unpublished and peer-reviewed of highly detailed research into lithography processes, manufacturing and DUV/EUV light source since back in 2012. For them to announce a 28nm scanner a decade later seems just about what typical development time produces if not albeit slow. So to downright calling them out for copy-pasting an ASML design without proof nor credit to those research seems like prejudice as if to say Chinese people are stupid and not capable of doing their own research/innovating. And if people have done more research, they’ll know that SMEE have even more advanced light source/node in prototype machines undergoing testing since 2017-2020. I bet when they announce a 7/14nm scanner in 2026, ppl will say they hijacked a ASML EUV scanner and paste their brand on top.
 
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It vexes me that a lot of ‘westerners’ seems to think Chinese scientists are dumb or nonexistent and only capable of the single function of copy-paste. I’ve read numerous research papers both unpublished and peer-reviewed of highly detailed research into lithography processes, manufacturing and DUV/EUV light source since back in 2012. For them to announce a 28nm scanner a decade later seems just about what typical development time produces if not albeit slow. So to downright calling them out for copy-pasting an ASML design without proof nor credit to those research seems like prejudice as if to say Chinese people are stupid and not capable of doing their own research/innovating. And if people have done more research, they’ll know that SMEE have even more advanced light source/node in prototype machines undergoing testing since 2017-2020. I bet when they announce a 7/14nm scanner in 2026, ppl will say they hijacked a ASML EUV scanner and paste their brand on top.


Just call me skeptical, but with news like above, just less than 6 month ago, I could argue that this tool might be one of the results.
 
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It vexes me that a lot of ‘westerners’ seems to think Chinese scientists are dumb or nonexistent and only capable of the single function of copy-paste.
mainly due to the past when thats what China was known for. (and msot ppl don't let go of that stuff)

China for sure does have some smart ppl who can make stuff, but they also do use "shortcuts" (not saying other companies dont btw just focus is china in this topic) of info they shouldnt have legally to advance faster than one normally would.

I have no hate for Chinese people (in fact they have great art, literature, & food I enjoy greatly) just gov is issue (and this isnt political mods o_o) and do wish stereotyping would go away as it does diminish the effort many chinese workers accomplish.
 
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Did they successful re-brand 4th gen Intel scrap or what?
Nah, they re-branded the machines used to make Intel's 4th-gen from scratch...

To make it more clear to you : a Chinese company managed to create the equipment needed to manufacture 2015-era semiconductors without outside components, when they were previously stuck at 2009-era.

Meaning a 7-years lap in 2 years since the US decided to enforce sanctions against China. Other posts indicate that by 2025 they may be at 2022-era... At this rate, by 2030, they might actually be leading. And THEY have the rare metals and manufacturing capabilities to flood the planet with cheap, high quality, high performance chips by then - especially if they decide to focus on making RISC-V chips, that would have no legal barrier to export : their internal market is large enough to make it a local standard, meaning software editors would take it into account, it would trickle down to the whole of Asia, and from there to Africa, Eastern Europe...

<Political content removed by moderator>
 
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It vexes me that a lot of ‘westerners’ seems to think Chinese scientists are dumb or nonexistent and only capable of the single function of copy-paste. I’ve read numerous research papers both unpublished and peer-reviewed of highly detailed research into lithography processes, manufacturing and DUV/EUV light source since back in 2012. For them to announce a 28nm scanner a decade later seems just about what typical development time produces if not albeit slow. So to downright calling them out for copy-pasting an ASML design without proof nor credit to those research seems like prejudice as if to say Chinese people are stupid and not capable of doing their own research/innovating. And if people have done more research, they’ll know that SMEE have even more advanced light source/node in prototype machines undergoing testing since 2017-2020. I bet when they announce a 7/14nm scanner in 2026, ppl will say they hijacked a ASML EUV scanner and paste their brand on top.


China is the first patent depositor in the world in high tech
As for copying, everyone does it.
Patents were invented and mostly used by great britain to sanction usa after independance and preventing us from having industrial machine. What did we do ? we paid people in uk who did steal british technology at that time, because we were cornered

On another scale :

China invented printing (discoverd many centuries later by gutenberg through british embassy in ottoman emopire) , ink, compass, vaccin, paper money, missiles, gun powder, even the mechanical differential many centuries ago and we can add tons of inventions

Summerians/persians/babylonians (irak and middle east nowadays) = literraly inveted writing, wheels and even the first human rights declaration (Cyrius, Iran or Persia)

Arabs and muslims gave to Europe their own knowledge and greek knowledge. They gave to the west algebra and algorithms wich is the latinised name of the arab mathematician (al khawarizmi)

Abbas ibn farnass (Morocco and Spain) was a moroccan and spanish arabic north african who was the first man trying to fly and have many invetions like world maps, optics, corrective lens, principles of aviation and so forth

Egyptians had the most complete library in the human history. Many of its books went to persia than Europe through muslim world. Some say that egyptians invented principles of steam car and computing

When muslims and chinese were at war, muslims (including arabs, persians and other ethnic groups) learned from chinese ink and paper writing techniques. Add to this printing invented by chinese and we understand how they permitted knowledge and religions to spread aound the world.

In the recent history,
german knowledge was stolen within the west itself.
TSMC and Lam research corporation were founded by chinese born scientists
One of the most iconic american successful man is of muslim syrian origin : steve jobs

China is the actual leader of technology inventions


So, all those things should be put into perspective. China (like all power looking for strategic independance) did steal when they were cornered by sanctions but it is no different from others.
The west is the continuation of ancien civilisation knowledge. And they were no patents at that time
Patents are a good thing to protect investors but when they are weaponized for other reasons, it's producing opposite effects

There is far more beneficits to cooperate for instance in the space and climate problematics, especially as natality is declining and humanity needs all of its brains to make this world even better.
USA has a great asset : its constitution, freedom , great universities and attracting talents. I'm optimistic for the us. No need to fear other nations rising.


 
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Impressive, however, i feel getting to 14nm will at least secure China to being in self sufficent in producing "modernish" cpu chips for devices.
 
mainly due to the past when thats what China was known for. (and msot ppl don't let go of that stuff)

China for sure does have some smart ppl who can make stuff, but they also do use "shortcuts" (not saying other companies dont btw just focus is china in this topic) of info they shouldnt have legally to advance faster than one normally would.

I have no hate for Chinese people (in fact they have great art, literature, & food I enjoy greatly) just gov is issue (and this isnt political mods o_o) and do wish stereotyping would go away as it does diminish the effort many chinese workers accomplish.
Yes exactly. No educated person would combine a countries government and the innocent citizens. The CCP is untrustworthy, covers everything up, and encourages IP theft. The people on the otherhand have to survive in a system like that so they do what they have to. I would also never say the West is without problems. We have all sorts of corruption and such. But we have a free press so the news is easily shared and things aren't as easily covered-up.
 
I will say that the 'rare' earth minerals are not unavailable in other places, it just isn't developed.

A lot of the interesting materials needed for semi-conductor manufacturing are found alongside things like Thorium and Uranium and other toxic/radioactive heavy metals. This makes them difficult to mine in Western countries due to strict safety standards and labor costs.

Not to mention things like the EPA which doesn't exactly support strip mining, and the added costs of clean up make a lot of it a non-starter profit wise. Would likely take government subsidies to make it worthwhile to start up new mines in NA.

China does supposedly have the largest reverses of rare earths, but that is based on known reserves. There is a lot of mountain in North and South America that is basically unsurveyed/prospected, just as there is in the Mongolian plateau and surrounding mountains.