News Chinese-made gaming GPUs get up to 120% FPS boost — new drivers and stability fixes for MTT S80 and S70 cards

[Admin]

The latest driver for Moore Threads' MTT S80 and S70 promises performance improvements and stability fixes across a handful of games and applications.

Chinese-made gaming GPUs get up to 120% FPS boost — new drivers and stability fixes for MTT S80 and S70 cards : Read more

 

[bit_user]

boasting impressive performance improvements in select titles

When the base performance is too low, the improvements don't deserve to be called impressive. In spite of all the improvements thus far, these graphics cards have still performed abysmally, last time we saw any actual frame rates posted.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...but-3d-performance-is-still-lags-the-gtx-1650
​

It's telling the article mentions no absolute frame rates. If it did, I'm sure we'd see there's nothing impressive about them.

 

[Jabberwocky79]

Go China! Let's get these puppies imported to the US... would finally be a GPU I could afford! 😆

 

[stuff and nonesense]

When the base performance is too low, the improvements don't deserve to be called impressive. In spite of all the improvements thus far, these graphics cards have still performed abysmally, last time we saw any actual frame rates posted.

It's telling the article mentions no absolute frame rates. If it did, I'm sure we'd see there's nothing impressive about them.

“Since launch, Moore Threads has been hard at work delivering driver optimizations for its GPUs. Truth be told, we aren't sure if we should take these numbers at face value. Despite these cards' raw horsepower, software, and certain architectural limitations are likely holding them back.”

Finance, time and market share are the 3 parts that matter going forward.
Can they afford to develop the next generation based on what they have learned/are learning from the current parts?
Can they execute in a timely manner?
Is the Chinese (guessing they are aimed at the home market for now) market going to adopt these parts and pull developers into optimising for them?

While the base hardware may not be exciting or impressive that they are learning is. If the finance holds up then within a generation or 2 they could be competitive. They have a real target to shoot at in the existing Nvidia/AMD/Intel GPUs. They aren’t shooting at a nebulous 10, 20, 30%.

 

[bit_user]

Can they afford to develop the next generation based on what they have learned/are learning from the current parts?

Hard to say, since they're based on IP from Imagination Technologies. Now that Imagination is on the ropes and looking for a buyer, will that pipeline keep flowing, or will they need a clean break and need to look elsewhere (Verisilicon?) for their next GPUs?

If they do switch IP providers, how much software will they have to rewrite? Probably most of it will need to be replaced.

While the base hardware may not be exciting or impressive that they are learning is. If the finance holds up then within a generation or 2 they could be competitive. They have a real target to shoot at in the existing Nvidia/AMD/Intel GPUs. They aren’t shooting at a nebulous 10, 20, 30%.

Seems to me like you'd want to know more about them, before trying to argue one way or another.

 

[artk2219]

Go China! Let's get these puppies imported to the US... would finally be a GPU I could afford! 😆

If you want to look up the benchmarks on these, i think you'll find you'd rather pickup a decent used gpu, like an RX 580 or something lol. Those would offer much more performance, with far fewer bugs, for less money. Those Moore Threads cards need a lot of work.

 

[Eximo]

Go China! Let's get these puppies imported to the US... would finally be a GPU I could afford! 😆

You could make a solid argument for an Intel B580 to replace your 1080 Ti. Right around a 3060 Ti in terms of FPS depending on the game.

 

[beyondlogic]

You could make a solid argument for an Intel B580 to replace your 1080 Ti. Right around a 3060 Ti in terms of FPS depending on the game.

i mean there may be a better version around the corner if rumours are to be believed of a 24gb version.

 

[jlake3]

I mean... better to have these improvements than not, but 50-120% performance boost in specific titles isn't reflective of general driver optimizations, that's reflective of something being broken. My Arc A380 had a few big, big performance leaps, but these were all in things where initially it mysteriously under-performed compared to a GPU that it matched in other tests, and the big leap pulled it back into the range it was expected to be in.

i mean there may be a better version around the corner if rumours are to be believed of a 24gb version.

Last I heard, that's believed to just be a workstation card using the B580 core.

 

[Jabberwocky79]

If you want to look up the benchmarks on these, i think you'll find you'd rather pickup a decent used gpu, like an RX 580 or something lol. Those would offer much more performance, with far fewer bugs, for less money. Those Moore Threads cards need a lot of work.

I was making a joke 😏. I'll will most likely be picking up a 5080 in the next couple of months provided stock comes back.

My current options by preference (and in no way an indication of anticipated reality):
1) Prices of used 4090's dip below the 5080 price range and I grab one of those.
2) 5080s come back in stock and don't go up in price again, and I buy one.
3) AMD actually surprises us with a valid 5080 competitor and I go team Red this time.
4) The GPU market remains as stupid as it is currently, and I pick up a B580 to ride out the poop storm. (Oh, wait,... I forgot that I can't even get one of THOSE for MSRP either.) 😵

 

[rluker5]

I was making a joke 😏. I'll will most likely be picking up a 5080 in the next couple of months provided stock comes back.

My current options by preference (and in no way an indication of anticipated reality):
1) Prices of used 4090's dip below the 5080 price range and I grab one of those.
2) 5080s come back in stock and don't go up in price again, and I buy one.
3) AMD actually surprises us with a valid 5080 competitor and I go team Red this time.
4) The GPU market remains as stupid as it is currently, and I pick up a B580 to ride out the poop storm. (Oh, wait,... I forgot that I can't even get one of THOSE for MSRP either.) 😵

If you don't have a window on your case there is this version: https://www.newegg.com/onix-odyssey-8346-00178-intel-arc-b580-12gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814987002 but it still costs $20 more than the LE I picked up.
But it's existence is an indication that they may be getting back in stock. B580 is interesting. It outperforms on some games and underperforms on others. At least Kingdom Come Deliverance is underperforming on mine and only runs well at 1440p. But it certainly is no 5080, you will need upscaling and reduced settings at 4k, and ray tracing still costs too much imo. 5080 has all that covered.

 

[renz496]

“Since launch, Moore Threads has been hard at work delivering driver optimizations for its GPUs. Truth be told, we aren't sure if we should take these numbers at face value. Despite these cards' raw horsepower, software, and certain architectural limitations are likely holding them back.”

Finance, time and market share are the 3 parts that matter going forward.
Can they afford to develop the next generation based on what they have learned/are learning from the current parts?
Can they execute in a timely manner?
Is the Chinese (guessing they are aimed at the home market for now) market going to adopt these parts and pull developers into optimising for them?

While the base hardware may not be exciting or impressive that they are learning is. If the finance holds up then within a generation or 2 they could be competitive. They have a real target to shoot at in the existing Nvidia/AMD/Intel GPUs. They aren’t shooting at a nebulous 10, 20, 30%.

Second best gpu maker on the planet only have 10% market share. Also don't underestimate the insane demand that gamer want from their gpu. There are reason more capable gpu maker like ARM, Imagination and Qualcomm did not want to enter dgpu market.

 

[nitrium]

Aren't just about all GPU's made in China? Just like iPhones.

 

[TCA_ChinChin]

When the base performance is too low, the improvements don't deserve to be called impressive. In spite of all the improvements thus far, these graphics cards have still performed abysmally, last time we saw any actual frame rates posted.

​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...but-3d-performance-is-still-lags-the-gtx-1650​

​

It's telling the article mentions no absolute frame rates. If it did, I'm sure we'd see there's nothing impressive about them.

I feel like we've seen this article like 3 or 4 times at this point. Put me under and let me know when they get to GTX-1060 level performance.

 

[Jabberwocky79]

If you don't have a window on your case there is this version: https://www.newegg.com/onix-odyssey-8346-00178-intel-arc-b580-12gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814987002 but it still costs $20 more than the LE I picked up.
But it's existence is an indication that they may be getting back in stock. B580 is interesting. It outperforms on some games and underperforms on others. At least Kingdom Come Deliverance is underperforming on mine and only runs well at 1440p. But it certainly is no 5080, you will need upscaling and reduced settings at 4k, and ray tracing still costs too much imo. 5080 has all that covered.

Thanks for the link. That's actually a good looking card. I don't have a "case," per se, but an open air chassis mounted on the wall. I have every thing I need to complete a custom water cooling loop except for the GPU. So I want a high-end card to justify water cooling it (and they pretty much only make water blocks for high end cards).

The B580 would be my choice if I'm in a situation where I just have to wait another year for some reason, and it becomes economically justifiable to spend $300 for 9-12 months of use.

I'm kicking myself for not scooping up a 4080 Super for MSRP when I had the chance. We were so close to 50 series launch I figured I'd wait and see what they offered. Wasn't banking on them halting 40 series production early, or tariffs... so now it looks like I'll have to step up to $1500.

 

[rluker5]

Thanks for the link. That's actually a good looking card. I don't have a "case," per se, but an open air chassis mounted on the wall. I have every thing I need to complete a custom water cooling loop except for the GPU. So I want a high-end card to justify water cooling it (and they pretty much only make water blocks for high end cards).

The B580 would be my choice if I'm in a situation where I just have to wait another year for some reason, and it becomes economically justifiable to spend $300 for 9-12 months of use.

I'm kicking myself for not scooping up a 4080 Super for MSRP when I had the chance. We were so close to 50 series launch I figured I'd wait and see what they offered. Wasn't banking on them halting 40 series production early, or tariffs... so now it looks like I'll have to step up to $1500.

Stock will refill. This is probably just a FOMO price spike and AMD's cards haven't been added to the supply yet. Hopefully they have plenty so you can go with option 3 instead of 4 at worst. An open chassis on the wall should have a higher end card. But you don't want to pay too much. I still regret paying $1300 for my 3080 (not from a scalper, stores were just charging that much) when if I waited it would have been $800. And that $250 I paid for my preordered B580 has no regrets at all.

 

[bit_user]

3) AMD actually surprises us with a valid 5080 competitor and I go team Red this time.

No, their pricing suggests it won't be. I think it'll probably even struggle to match the RTX 5070 Ti, but that's a weakly-informed opinion.

That said, I am interested in getting a RDNA 4 card, depending on pricing and availability. If Intel doesn't release a bigger Battlemage and AMD offers me a better value than Nvidia, that's probably the direction I'll go.

 

[bit_user]

There are reason more capable gpu maker like ARM, Imagination and Qualcomm did not want to enter dgpu market.

A few of the Chinese dGPUs (including Moore Threads) are Imagination-based!

https://www.design-reuse.com/news/51042/imagination-innosilicon-gpu.html
​

Here's apparently the latest iteration of their dGPU-grade IP:

Imagination launches brand new line of high-performance GPU IP with DirectX  - Imagination

IMG DXD is a scalable GPU IP tailor-made for desktop, laptop and cloud gaming graphics experiences.

www.imaginationtech.com

For all of them (Imagination, Arm, and Qualcomm), the hurdle they face in drivers is non-trivial. The struggles Intel and Moore Threads have had clearly shows this. However, Qualcomm and probably Arm have been dragged into supporting Windows & Direct3D, anyhow, thanks to Windows on Arm.

Interestingly, Imagination has dabbled a tiny bit in the dGPU market, if you go back about a dozen years.

https://n4g.com/news/927109/revenge-is-sweet-powervr-discrete-gpgpu-pcie-card-coming-later-in-2012
​

...and, of course PC graphics cards is actually where the company started, back in the 1990's.

 

[bit_user]

Aren't just about all GPU's made in China? Just like iPhones.

There's a massive difference between plunking chips on a PCB and designing the actual ASIC at the heart of these cards. Even if the PCB layout and cooler design is done in China, that gets you no closer to designing the highly complex silicon and accompanying software needed for modern gaming and AI.

 

[bit_user]

I feel like we've seen this article like 3 or 4 times at this point.

Yes, and we are going to keep seeing it, because every time some other news outlet reports on a driver update with new (probably game-specific) optimizations, Toms' freelance contributors are going to snap it up to pad out their quota of articles for the day.

To be a little balanced, it's not as if they don't do similar reporting on Intel, AMD, and Nvidia driver updates, from time to time. However, those have real relevance to their readers while this doesn't.

I'd go so far as to say that, due the the lack of proper context, this article is click bait, at best.

 

[Eximo]

If Intel doesn't release a bigger Battlemage and AMD offers me a better value than Nvidia, that's probably the direction I'll go.

All signs point to Intel skipping big Battlemage silicon and going straight into Celestial on Intel nodes. Celestial could even show up as iGPU sometime this year according to some. Latest rumors show a few new battlemage models, but it is highly likely these might be cut down G21 dies or the rumored workstation card with 24GB. Cut down G21 might make their way into mobile/embedded solutions since none have shown up yet.

 

[nookoool]

Aren't just about all GPU's made in China? Just like iPhones.

In the "Republic of China", not the "People's Republic of China"