News Chinese Trade Groups: CHIPS Act and Science Law Hinders Innovation

salgado18

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One could say the same about China's government influence on their economy. I doubt United States semiconductor manufacturing is getting any more national subsidies than the other countries provide their own.
I see the subsidies as absolutely normal, and probably way too late for America to invest in itself instead of in other countries.

But forbidding companies from building fabs in certain countries sure is something else. That's almost like a sanction to China and others, not a protective act but a proactive act. This is the diplomatic issue the groups are raising, and I have to agree to them. The US is in a clear economic war with China, and probably an excuse away from a military one, and that is good to nobody.
 

hotaru251

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When TSMC is about to become CSMC, time to produce fabs locally.
TSMC already said they'd never become china's and would effectively destroy the data and the fabs to prevent China from having them.



on topic:
i mean its specific to the nation yes, but not like China's stealing of IP's/trade secrets is any better nor is their provocation for war by constantly expanding into sea.
 
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Geef

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This should come down to "HEY CHINA! If you want companies to do this for YOUR country how about YOU offer up the same or more money? No? Then quit your wining."

edit: Sorry, I forgot China is an Authoritarian government. They don't follow the rules, but they force their people to do so. Unless of course, you want to lose points in your Chinese Social Credit Score. Be careful, if it gets too low you can't even ride the bus.
 
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I see the subsidies as absolutely normal, and probably way too late for America to invest in itself instead of in other countries.

But forbidding companies from building fabs in certain countries sure is something else. That's almost like a sanction to China and others, not a protective act but a proactive act. This is the diplomatic issue the groups are raising, and I have to agree to them. The US is in a clear economic war with China, and probably an excuse away from a military one, and that is good to nobody.
This is complete bollocks. USA does not want war with China nor does china want war with us. Our economies are far to linked together and dependent. Can you take your US hating somewhere else?

Also your comment about it being too late for America is also complete bollocks. Absolute nonsense. We need to be more independent and it was stupid for us to sell off all of our stuff and outsource everything in the first place listening to those morons with MBAs
 

bit_user

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But forbidding companies from building fabs in certain countries sure is something else.
No, it's not. Money is fungible. They don't want to give taxpayer money to company XYZ for fabs in the US, only for that to free up more budget for them to build another 2 fabs in China.

And a big reason they have to do it, is that China places restrictions on foreign companies doing business there, in order to force them to develop the Chinese economy and workforce (if you haven't heard the phrase "forced technology transfer", look it up). So, there needs to be some good reason for US companies to say "no", or else they just cave in like every time in the past.

The reason Congress is doing this is not as a gift to semiconductor fabs, simply because we like them. It's to build & preserve US-based production capacity. So, it's going to come with strings attached. That's just how it needs to work. And nobody is being forced to take the money.

The US is in a clear economic war with China,
China has been at economic war with the US for about 2 decades. It's about time we woke up and defended our interests.

probably an excuse away from a military one, and that is good to nobody.
If there's a military conflict, it's clear that China will seize on some little thing like a US politician visiting Taiwan as a pretense. There would only be a military conflict because China wants it.

The US doesn't want it, and already does enough to tip toe around China's over-sensitivities that it wouldn't happen by mistake. Did you know that when the US performs "freedom of navigation" exercises to maintain access to international waters (that China decided it should control) that we actually contact them and tell them what we're about to do, so they don't misinterpret it and overreact?
 
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bit_user

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nor does china want war with us.
Eh... I mean, there's a point where they might feel like striking a military blow against the US could further their interests. Would they sink a US battleship, if they thought it would keep us out of the South China Sea and away from Taiwan? I think so.

Our economies are far to linked together and dependent.
Being authoritarian, they are far less accountable to their people than democracies. They could weather a couple years of poor economic performance much better than US politicians could.

We need to be more independent
Independence does come at a price, depending on the degree. We need to acknowledge that many in the US (including most of us here) have done well by globalization.

it was stupid for us to sell off all of our stuff and outsource everything in the first place listening to those morons with MBAs
Yes, but the real miscalculation was people convincing themselves that China would play by the rules and that capitalism would somehow make them more democratic. Capitalism doesn't like democracy. The reason they go together is that you need democracy to keep capitalism in check. If the US had a more vibrant democracy (i.e. no corporate backing of politicians), we probably wouldn't have outsourced nearly as much to China.
 
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