News Chip Toolmakers Cut Off China's YMTC: No More 3D NAND

[Admin]

YMTC loses access to spare parts and services from American and European chip toolmakers.

Chip Toolmakers Cut Off China's YMTC: No More 3D NAND : Read more

 

[escksu]

Lets see if YMTC is able to reverse engineer their existing equipment. If so, then there is no need to foreign equipment anymore.

Sanctions are actually a good thing. There is never a need for China and USA to be friends. Never a need to trade with each other as well. Its good to trade but nor a must.

Also globalisation is not exactly a good thing. It only make countries overly dependent of others to survive.

 

[watzupken]

Another day, another sanction in the name of national security by the US. In my opinion, this sort of sanction hurt at the start. When you consider the financial might and ability to replicate technology quickly, it is a matter of time they will have no or few dependencies on "US technology". Longer term, I think this is going to hit US harder because they will not get the business back and they can't do anything much other than crying out "copyright infringement/ stealing of technology".

 

[mitch074]

And now China will develop their own tooling, the USA won't sell anymore because Chinese knock-offs will catch up then overtake US-made ones (because why spend on R&D if you don't sell), and then complain that China "stole" their tech.
Who's winning there?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

And now China will develop their own tooling, the USA won't sell anymore because Chinese knock-offs will catch up then overtake US-made ones (because why spend on R&D if you don't sell), and then complain that China "stole" their tech.
Who's winning there?

By the time China produces a working clone of existing US tech it will be obsolete.

 

[George³]

Докато Китай произвежда работещ клонинг на съществуващата американска технология, той ще бъде остарял.

Why do you think that after China pours cool billions into development, it will necessarily make clones of an outdated and outdated architecture and not go its own way?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Why do you think that after China pours cool billions into development, it will necessarily make clones of an outdated and outdated architecture and not go its own way?

Give me one technology that China has R&D’ed that is not either a clone, direct copy of other nations technology, or based on corporate espionage of another nations intellectual property?

 

[George³]

Дайте ми една технология, която Китай е разработил и която не е нито клонинг, нито директно копие на технология на други нации, нито базирана на корпоративен шпионаж на интелектуална собственост на други нации?

This is not answer of my question.
I waiting with attention for answer if you decide to write it.
Edit: translate first part of my post to English.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Give me one technology that China has R&D’ed that is not either a clone, direct copy of other nations technology, or based on corporate espionage of another nations intellectual property?

Exactly this. In order to make the kind of chips that can compete with us. They would need to be able to buy ASML equipment or to duplicate it and they are at least 10 to 20 years behind. ASML has cut them off there’s no EUV for them.

let them pour billions into it and see how far they get. They’ll just get broke. Where do folks think they get their money? Do they think they print their own ?

China does not create China steals, and if anyone is caught, selling them any technology, they shouldn’t have there should be extreme repercussions

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Това не е отговор на въпросите ми.
I waiting with attention for answer if you decide to write it.

I’m sorry your last post was all in Slavic script, so I don’t know what you are asking

 

[George³]

I’m sorry your last post was all in Slavic script, so I don’t know what you are asking

Done, problem was onlive translate from my android phone. My language is Bulgarian.

 

[KyaraM]

let them pour billions into it and see how far they get. They’ll just get broke. Where do folks think they get their money? Do they think they print their own ?

China does not create China steals, and if anyone is caught, selling them any technology, they shouldn’t have there should be extreme repercussions

Last time I checked, countries indeed have a tendency to print their own money.

Also, who do you think you are to tell other countries what to do? Hypocricy max? And why is it fine if the US does it, but not someone else? Wait, I answered that question already, my bad...

 

[Dragos Manea]

I dont agree with what is hapenning, it will only hurt the regular customer, increasing prices and holding development down, just for the ego of some savage monkeys which were at war most of their existence (USA).

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Done, problem was onlive translate from my android phone. My language is Bulgarian.

Well nice to meet you!
To answer your question, it is my opinion that China is incapable of progressing technology further than what they can copy, clone, or develop from stolen IP. Now whether this is due to their want to quickly reach parity with western nations or genuine inability to create new and novel technologies that’s anyone’s guess. I welcome your rebuttal!

 

[George³]

Не съм съгласен с това, което се случва, само ще навреди на редовния клиент, ще увеличи цените и ще задържи развитието, само за егото на някои диви маймуни, които са били във война през по-голямата част от съществуването си (САЩ).

Yes, we are bringing politics into the comments too much. At the end of the day, we are consumers who are affected by political interference in the development of technology and restrictions imposed in a completely undemocratic way.

 

[anonymousdude]

Are we going to act like China hasn't already poured billions into R&D for semiconductor fabrication? They've stated explicitly over and over how they want to be technologically self sufficient. If anything, the US acted later than they should have.

They also haven't gotten anywhere meaningful even with all those billions. Even SMICs 7nm is a worse copy of TSMC 7nm.

 

[Foeke]

We are all banking on the fact that China needs the US to survive. We are banking on China not asking the trillion they have invested in the US back. We are banking on China not sanctioning the Western world.
Just like Europe was banking on Russia never stop pumping Natural gas in our direction because they need our money.

Not realising there will come a point where the scale is tipped and we are screwed.
The fact is, Russia is now making more money on their oil and gas like never before, because we grosly underestamated how corrupt our companies and governments are. As soon as Shell smelled that then cheap russian oil, they bought it anyway. It's easy to say sorry after you made millions.
Everybody was upset, so now russian oil was mixed with other sources so the oil companies could escape the boycots. The downside of a free world, is that there is always that race to the bottom. In prices, but also in morals. The first to start is the winner. the last one the loser.
China can just say, screw that. No more chips for the western world for a couple of months. We saw what happened when somebody thought we might not have enough toiletpaper. Imagen what happens when we don't get our Chinese chips.

 

[George³]

They also haven't gotten anywhere meaningful even with all those billions. Even SMICs 7nm is a worse copy of TSMC 7nm.

they are at least 10 to 20 years behind

There is enough divergence here to make one opinion inconclusive.

 

[mitch074]

You think they can only copy? Interestingly enough, China is already 10 to 15 years ahead of the USA on clean energy alone. As for reverse engineering, if France with its paltry military budget can reverse engineer, reimplement and improve a fighter plane's targeting chip in 6 months, what can China do within a couple years and ten times the budget?
You do know that in less than a decade China is pretty much on par with the US when it comes to chip engraving technology, right ? Only trailing behind Taiwan and Korea?
Dismissing your competitor so easily is what lead the car country (i.e. the USA) to have most of its car manufacturers on the brink of bankruptcy vs. Japanese ones.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

We are all banking on the fact that China needs the US to survive. We are banking on China not asking the trillion they have invested in the US back. We are banking on China not sanctioning the Western world.
Just like Europe was banking on Russia never stop pumping Natural gas in our direction because they need our money.

Not realising there will come a point where the scale is tipped and we are screwed.
The fact is, Russia is now making more money on their oil and gas like never before, because we grosly underestamated how corrupt our companies and governments are. As soon as Shell smelled that then cheap russian oil, they bought it anyway. It's easy to say sorry after you made millions.
Everybody was upset, so now russian oil was mixed with other sources so the oil companies could escape the boycots. The downside of a free world, is that there is always that race to the bottom. In prices, but also in morals. The first to start is the winner. the last one the loser.
China can just say, screw that. No more chips for the western world for a couple of months. We saw what happened when somebody thought we might not have enough toiletpaper. Imagen what happens when we don't get our Chinese chips.

I dont agree with what is hapenning, it will only hurt the regular customer, increasing prices and holding development down, just for the ego of some savage monkeys which were at war most of their existence (USA).

Lucky for the US, we have Intel Foundries, TSMC 5nm fab, global foundries, Samsung fabs, micron fabs, Texas Instruments, etc. to make our chips and enough natural gas and oil to be energy independent.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

You think they can only copy? Interestingly enough, China is already 10 to 15 years ahead of the USA on clean energy alone. As for reverse engineering, if France with its paltry military budget can reverse engineer, reimplement and improve a fighter plane's targeting chip in 6 months, what can China do within a couple years and ten times the budget?
You do know that in less than a decade China is pretty much on par with the US when it comes to chip engraving technology, right ? Only trailing behind Taiwan and Korea?
Dismissing your competitor so easily is what lead the car country (i.e. the USA) to have most of its car manufacturers on the brink of bankruptcy vs. Japanese ones.

Actually they are not, their solar panels and wind turbines are copies of American and German design firm designs. And their 4th generation nuclear reactors are of western nuclear reactor designs.

 

[George³]

Actually they are not, their solar panels and wind turbines are copies of American and German design firm designs. And their 4th generation nuclear reactors are of western nuclear reactor designs.

In fact, we, being ordinary people, are unable to personally confirm the anti-China propaganda being thrown into space, which is no doubt politically inspired. Even those of us who have the knowledge don't have access to the tools to do the checking.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

There is enough divergence here to make one opinion inconclusive.

Really go do some research because that’s what ASML says. You don’t know what you’re talking about in this situation obviously. And without ASML they ain’t gonna do anything.

you must be a Chinese shill. Have fun in China.

 

[COLGeek]

Thank you to all who contributed. Closing this thread now.