Choosing the right board

[datwunguy]

Hi everyone!

I'm not very skilled at building computers nor do I have too much knowledge on how to build computers, but I am interested in upgrading my motherboard as well as overclocking my processor. Currently I'm using an intel 965ss which does not allow me to overclock, therefore, I am interested in upgrading it.

The boards that interest me are,
GA-P35-DS3R (gigabyte)
GA-P35-DS3P (gigabyte)
GA-P35C-DS3R (gigabyte)
P5K (Asus)
Abit (IP35 Pro)
P35 Platinum (MSI)

I have also found some 680i boards from eva-g that seems to be pretty good as well, but I heard the p35 was the newest chipset. Currently I'm running a e6400 that I want to over clock to 2.8 if I can, and I'm using a MSI 8600gts card. At first I wanted the SLI function, but I heard there is no point in having SLI unless you play with a screen resolution bigger than 1920 (which I don't). Therefore, I thought the p35 boards would be the best, but I'm not sure which one of the boards would be the best from above. All of them seems to be pretty nice and I already have my own sound card so I don't care about the on boards sound. I will also plan to upgrade my ram when I install vista ultimate in a few months.

Currently I have these stats onmy computer.
CPU-Z 1.40 report file
Processor(s)
Number of processors 1
Number of cores 2 per processor
Number of threads 2 (max 2) per processor
Name Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
Code Name Conroe
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz
Package Socket 775 LGA
Family/Model/Stepping 6.F.6
Extended Family/Model 6.F
Core Stepping B2
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 1598.4 MHz
Multiplier x Bus speed 6.0 x 266.4 MHz
Rated Bus speed 1065.6 MHz
Stock frequency 2133 MHz
Instruction sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, EM64T
L1 Data cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2048 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
Chipset & Memory
Northbridge Intel P965/G965 rev. C2
Southbridge Intel 82801HB/HR (ICH8/R) rev. 02
Graphic Interface PCI-Express
PCI-E Link Width x16
PCI-E Max Link Width x16
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 1536 MBytes
System
System Manufacturer
System Name
System S/N
Mainboard Vendor Intel Corporation
Mainboard Model DG965SS
BIOS Vendor Intel Corp.
BIOS Version MQ96510J.86A.0816.2006.0716.2308
BIOS Date 07/16/2006
Memory SPD
Module 1 DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Corsair
Module 2 DDR2, PC2-3200 (200 MHz), 256 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics
Module 3 DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Corsair
Module 4 DDR2, PC2-3200 (200 MHz), 256 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics
Software
Windows Version Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
DirectX Version 9.0c



Can someone please direct me in the best path to a computer with the newest chipset that is very easy for me to over clock? I don't mind too much about SLI, nor do I really care about the ddr3 ram function. It would be nice to have both of these editions, but once again, they're not my top priority. What I do want is my current ram to work with this new motherboard or until I can upgrade my ram. Hopefully the overclocking functions will be easy as well because I am a noob to overclocking. (I sorta want to buy the zalmancpu cooler as well for proper cooling of my computer when I over clock)

My budget for the motherboard is below 200 dollars. Any comments or suggestions is welcomed and much appreciated! Many thanks!

 

[freelance]

Hm, 965ss not overclockable... weird, it's a 965, but can't say anything as have no knowledge about his one. P35 is an "upgraded" 965P and is well overclockable.

P35 will support upcoming Penryn/Wolfdale 45nm Intel processors (that is the "new" side of the story), while with 680i is not that clear if they actually would. However, if you do not intend to upgrade your CPU in autumn or a bit later, I would suggest there is no problem to order a mobo with 680i or with P35.

Agree that SLI not really needed, particularly if you plan a 8800 GTS - enough for you to "fly".

If you really want both SLI and DDR3 you will have to wait for new motherboards to be manufactured, since current SLI boards do not have DDR3 support.

Intel chipsets do not support SLi of course, but they evidently support ATI's CrossFire. Well, at this point P35 has CrossFire capabilities, but those are rather unimpressive (one PCIe is at x16 "speed", while another at only x4). It seems that in August the new Intel chipset x38 will come out - that one will suport full (2x16) CrossFire. In my opinion, with a 8800GTS (and even with only one 8600GTS) there is no need to wait for that.

Well, my personal preferences go with Gigabyte first, Abit second and Asus third - with one remark that I own a (P35-DS4) Gigabyte now.

To cut the long story short, I would go for a GA-P35C-DS3R since:
1. it supports future Intel proccessors (whenever you decide to upgrade, even if in some distant future),
2. it has 4 DDR2 slots for current use (which is enough and identical to other modern boards)
3. and it has 2 DDR3 slots, which would allow upgrading to DDR3 in the future when this memory is working properly.

 

[freelance]

P.S. 8800GTS is just a suggestion, 8600GTS is just fine, as I wrote above. However, check the compatibility of your VGA MSI 8600GTS with the new mobo before purchase.

 

[T8RR8R]

Flip a coin or pick whatever one looks the best. Normally that's not the way to go but all of those boards are good. Just so you know all of the Nvidia 600 series boards OC quite well and are 1333 and 45nm CPU ready as well as allowing SLI.

 

[freelance]

Flip a coin or pick whatever one looks the best. Normally that's not the way to go but all of those boards are good. Just so you know all of the Nvidia 600 series boards OC quite well and are 1333 and 45nm CPU ready as well as allowing SLI.

I found out that T8RR8R is right that 680i will also support Penryn with a BIOS update. (Not sure about all 650i though, T8RR8R) - EDIT: correction, T8RR8R is righT, as all 600i will support 45nm. Voted for T8RR8R post myself.

 

[T8RR8R]

Mad props!

 

[datwunguy]

Thanks for the quicks responses guys. Well I still have a few more questions about the board. So far I have taken interest in the GA-P35C-DS3R and the 680i from eva-g. Now, for my graphic's card compatibility, I think it will be fine. My card is a pci-e and so is the board. My fans are really loud on my computer (the vantec tornado), but I would also like my motherboard be able to control the fan's speed. Does these newer boards come with the function to slow down the fan's speed or do I need a fan controller? Will my current ram fit in to this new motherboard as well?

In addition, if I was to purchase a zalman cooler, how do I know if it will fit in my case? Do i check the specifications of the fan and my case or is it a motherboard thing? (Should I also use the Arctic Silver 5 Thermal grease that is supposedly really good or is there going to be grease with the motherboard's box?)

These are the four boards I have in mind currently,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013 EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188014 EVGA 122-CK-NF67-A1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188019 EVGA 122-CK-NF63-TR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048 GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R

 

[BUFF]

The abit IP35 Pro is probably the best but will also be the dearest & personally I'm not impressed by the MSI.
Best to look at the features, decide what you need & if you're willing to pay more for something that you probably will never use.
Even abit's IP35-E (cheapest P35 that I know of here) will do 500fsb with supporting equipment.

& that brings us onto your RAM - your PC2-3200 is already overclocked just running your E6400 at stock & it almost certainly will be your limiting factor.
I would recommend picking ub 2x1GB DDR2 PC6400 or better whilst it's cheap.

edit: in terms of onboard fan control abit's uGuru on the Pro is by far the best offered by any mobo mfr

 

[T8RR8R]

If you want to OC to the moon the P35 boards will be what you want. If you want to OC outside our atmosphere the Nvidia boards will get you there. Not all P965 board will OC because of the limitations of the BIOS, however all the boards you're looking at will do you good.

If you have no intentions of using SLI then I'd probably stick with the P35 but if there is a chance you'll ever want to use 2 GPU's then get the board that allows you to do so. I'd rather have the longer upgrade path then a higher OC limit, but that's just me. GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R would be my vote because of the DDR3, even though it's too expensive to bother with the ram right now it probably won't be that way in a year. It'll be less of a bite in the butt when you change out that single G80 that was $260-400 than 2 G80's that cost $520-800 together. At the same time though having the ability to upgrade to another GPU is nice because if you bought 1 8800GTS 320 right now, then by the time that starts to struggle you could plop a new one in and it'll be ALOT cheaper than buying the new hotness.

What case are you looking to put the Zalman into?

 

[ravx]

I'm going through this same decision process as we speak datwunguy -- so I feel your pain in wanting to make the right decision. In my trolling of the other boards on this forum -- it seems a good majority of opinions rest with what resolutions you normally run. I myself am still trying to weed through threads to determine if a single GPU solution on a P35 board will be more cost efficent in the long run than plopping a single card into an SLI board now and adding a second later on. Hard to say really - but I've been eyeing the P35C-DS3R myself. You might want to look at the Asus P5N32-E Plus if you decide to go SLI. It is a 650i board but supports dual x16 SLI at a cost less than some of the 680i boards.

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread as it will surely help me as well

 

[T8RR8R]

My advice would be to sleep on it for a few days.

 

[datwunguy]

Currently I'm using this xion case, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208009

and I'm looking to purchase this fan as well. (zalman CNPS9500)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223

I heard the reviews for this fan was top of the line and that I could overclock to pluto. (Lol sorry, just trying to continue that atmosphere/moon joke the other guy was talking about)

However, I do notice that my liberty powersupply blows hot air down on to my processor, thats why I bought a 120 mm fan for the front of my computer as well as the vantec 92mm tornado. (Yes this fan is incredibly loud, thats why I really need a motherboard that has fan controller to save me money from buying a fan controller)

Therefore, I am interested in the gigabyte board, GA-P35C-DS3R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048
The abit board and the Asus pk5 board.

I think I have also decided not to go into sli. I am not planning to get a new screen larger then my 17 inch anytime soon. Therefore, I'll probably go for the boards without the SLI.

I also have another question on the abit board. I haven't heard too much of the abit board, but the board's layout sounds interesting. What is the difference between the abit ip35 pro and regular version? (Regular)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127029
(Pro version)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127030

Last but not least, only one person has given me feedback on my ram chips. Will they work with these new boards? I will gets ome pc6400 ddr2 ram chips soon. (Any suggestions for those? Can I overclock those too on my new board? I do have a liberty 400watt power supply that is very very very stable)

Much thanks once again

 

[boner]

well, as someone else said, are you upgrading the processor next year?? if so then go for a P35 and new memory and a new PSU if you get a 8*** series(video card)

 

[datwunguy]

Do I really need a PSU if I have a liberty 400 watt? The ratings for the PSU were so high thats what I purchased it.

 

[datwunguy]

I'm sorry to double post, but can someone please answer my questions from above? Much appreciated for the help!

 

[T8RR8R]

YES you can use that 400W PSU, BUT it depends on what else you have in your system.

What CPU
How many sticks of RAM
How many HDD
How many fans, and what kind of cooling


Basically you can go to http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp and figure it out.

You have enough amps on the PSU and that calculator brings in a recommendation of around 330W, so I'm sure you'll be ok for now. Just don't any OCing and you'll be ok.

 

[datwunguy]

Aww man, I really thought this power supply would be able to support my OCing. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194002)

I bought it because of the stable stats that it had. I just want to over clock my e6400 to 2.8 or so. The "extreme" website you just provided requires me to pay to use the wattage calculator = (
I'm also going to be running 4 sticks of ram, 4 hard drives, 1 8600gts card, 3 fans (90, 92, and 120mm) and 2 dvd drives.

I am still concern with the items that I am looking to purchase. Will my xion case
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811208009 )
fit a zalman cooler?
As well, will the p35 boards with the picky ram chips it can only accept use my current rams?

 

[T8RR8R]

You don't have to pay just to calculate your wattage, and the amps on your PSU will run what you want. Also I'm pretty sure the Zalman 9500 cooler will fit that case since it's a little smaller than the 9700 that I have and the motherboard you're looking at doesn't have the socket right at the edge of the board like some.

 

[datwunguy]

Thanks t8rr8r, you almost answered all my questions. I was wondering can you also teach me a little of how I overclock my ram/processor? This is probably the wrong section to ask this question, but I was just thinking of changing the timing on the clock frequency and the ram's timings. I don't know how the voltage thing works nor do i understand how much psu watts do i need. once again, i'm using the ernermax liberty 400w

 

[datwunguy]

Thanks t8rr8r, you almost answered all my questions. I was wondering can you also teach me a little of how I overclock my ram/processor? This is probably the wrong section to ask this question, but I was just thinking of changing the timing on the clock frequency and the ram's timings. I don't know how the voltage thing works nor do i understand how much psu watts do i need. once again, i'm using the ernermax liberty 400w

 

[T8RR8R]

Nice double post. You should probably be able to push your FSB to about 375 on that much power withought having to do anything with voltages but if you need to you'll want to give your Vcore a little nudge up if the system isn't stable. Also you'll get to a point where you'll need to give your northbridge voltage a little nudge too. If you want to reach a maximum FSB you'll need to turn off all of optional technologies such as EIST, C1E, XD, and any kind of automatic voltage or FSB features. You'll also need to change the multiplier/divider on your ram. Explaining and understanding the ratio is much harder to do so I suggest when you get to the BIOS you just get to the ratio portion and adjust as needed(play with it).

If you want to OC you need to make sure you're stable under load and one way to do that it to run Orthos Prime. It'll test both cores 99-100 of there load which is when your temps will increase to there highest. Just don't push those temps past 65 and you'll be fine. Speaking of temps, you'll want to use a program call core-temp, you could also use TAT. They are both much more accurate temp monitors than any BIOS temp reader.

Since you only have 400W to play with and you have an 8800GTS I wouldn't recommend going crazy with the OCing. At stock speed the C2D chips run @ 65W max, but when you OC those wattages will go up. The reason I said 375FSB before is because that's all your PSU will probably take on a day to day basis. In my opinion I wouldn't OC past 333FSB for day to day usage 'till you get a better PSU.

 

[datwunguy]

Sorry but I'm using an 8600 gts. Does that change my voltage/settings a lot? I heard the 8800gts will take more energy, but my 8600gts is factory overclocked.

I did not really understand what you said about the OCing and stuff up there, but I'll just give it all try and push my cpu a little. I'm not sure how to increase the voltage and I have absolutely no knowledge of what the fsb feature/function is.

I also have no idea what the esit, c1e, or xd functions are. I was just planning to use the nvidia control thingie to up my cpu speed as well as my gpu speed and then perform stress tests on them

 

[T8RR8R]

Sorry, I was thinking 8800GTS the whole time.

Graphic cards have nothing to do with overclocking the CPU unless you don't have enough power, in which case since you're running the 8600GTS and not the 8800GTS you'll be using less power from your PSU that can be applied to your CPU overclock.

As far as OCing goes let me start with the basics.

1) Start with a system that you know is running the way it should before anything else. Run MemTest overnight, Run Orthos Blend overnight, run CoreTemp to check your temps, and get good cooling. Get comfy with your BIOS.

2) As a rule of thumb you'll want to turn off all kinds of automatic CPU controlling functions such as C1E, EIST, Virtualization and so forth. You do that in the BIOS. Some board come with software to OC from Windows. Some of this software is good, most is not. No BIOS reads the temps that you want to know.

3) The front side bus(FSB) is the speed that the entire system communicates at. By increasing this number(frequency) you are in turn increasing the entire speed of the system.

4) Each CPU has a specific multiplier built in. This number CANNOT be changed unless you get the "extreme" series of processors. The forumula for CPU speed is (Multiplier#)xFSB=CPU speed. For example an e6400 has a multiplier of 8, so what we do is...8x266=2130, aka 2.13Ghz. An e6600 has a multiplier of 9 so that's 9x266=2394, but we just consider that to be 2.4Ghz. Also each motherboard with have some slight variance to it's 266. It could be 266~267, as long as it's close nobody cares.

5) On Intel based systems there is something we call "quad pumped" FSB, which is a stupid number to advertise but it make things sound better because it has a bigger number and bigger is better???(not really). Why do we even have a "quad pumped" number? It's because on Intel based system the actual CPU doesn't have it's own memory controller hub (MCH) also known as a northbridge. On AMD based system they have one built in so they would be "double pumped". So far we have addressed 2 pumps of the "quad"(which is 4 pumps). The other 2 pumps comes from the fact that ALL DDR is double data rate. So no matter what ram you have or kind of system(intel/AMD) your ram will count for 2 of the pumps.

Quad/True
800=200
1066=266
1333=333
1500=375

6) The Quad Pumped number is what confuses everyone so pay no attention to that, because like I said it's stupid and bares no real importance when it comes to OCing.

7) Unlike the CPU with it's locked multiplier, RAM speed is changed by the FSB and by changing a setting in the BIOS called the cpu/memory ratio. Basically this can be a divider or a multiplier. RAM is just like the tires on your car, they have a rated speed. Meaning you can go up to that speed, BUT any speed over that rating is not warranted by the manufacturer. So if you increase your memory speed over it's highest limit then you are overclocking your ram. What happens though if you don't want to OC your RAM, but you want a higher FSB? You then have to change the multiplier/divider of your ram. The easiest ratio to understand and explain is the 1:1 ratio also known as sychronous. When you have a FSB of 266 you'll then be running your CPU FSB at 266 and your ram at 266. However since RAM is DDR you'll always multiply that by 2 so you'll have 533 RAM. So what is the point of having 800Mhz RAM in a system that's only running it at 533? There really isn't but with a multiplier of 2:3 you'll be running your CPU at 266 and your RAM at 800. Another thing to do if you have RAM that's higher than 533 is to run it the 1:1 ratio and increase the FSB to the speed of the ram.

8) If you didn't understand that, just go into your BIOS and play with the ratio. Just remember since ram is like tires on your car, you can always go slower than your top speed but its not safe to go faster than your top speed. Also when I say DDR that could be DDR, DDR2, DDR3... and so on. The effect of doubling the speed doesn't change. Each generation of DDR is just more energy efficient and has a higher top speed.

9) RAM also has timings. Which can best be explained by the manufacturer of your RAM. The higher speed you go the looser or higher the timings go. You don't really want to play with these unless you really know what you're doing and I can't explain it.

10) So what you'll want to start out with is moving your RAM multiplier down so you can get some room. What I mean is if you have 800Mhz RAM you'll want to adjust the multiplier so it's running at 667 or 533 or lower.

11) Start to crank on your FSB. Going from 266 to 333 is a place good start. From there you'll want to save your settings in your BIOS and restart. Load to your OS and use OrthosPrime in blend mode to make your CPU work to 100% and to test your system stability, while that's going you'll want to also be running CoreTemp to check your core temps. These temps will be hotter than the ones in your BIOS. The temps in your BIOS are meaningless. Do NOT let your CPU go over 70. It won't pop at that temp but there is no point in running it that hot. I personally freak out at 65. They will pop at 85+.

12) Let Orthos run for at least an hour to make sure your system is stable, if it's not you'll get random crashes. Orthos will warn you of the smallest errors and stop it's loading function Let Orthos run for at least an hour to make sure your system is stable, if it's not you'll get random crashes. Orthos will warn you of the smallest errors and stop it's loading function.

13) If everything is stable and not overheating, you can increase the FSB farther. I'd probably jump to 360, but after that I'd probably adjust the FSB but only by 5-10 at a time. You will get a to a point where you need to increase your voltages.

14) What happens if your system isn't stable or you hit a wall? You can up the voltage of your CPU or up the Voltage of your Northbridge. Remember the northbridge is what controlls all of these Memory Ratios and FSB's so if you make it do more work than it's supposed to you might need to give it some more fuel(voltage). As far as upping the voltage goes, you'll want to make small adjustments. For the CPU 1.3V is pretty normal, but 1.5V is pretty high, take things in .25V steps. Know your chipsets stock voltage. Increasing the Voltage really raises temps too. If you ever want to water cool and OC, you'll need a way to cool your Northbridge as well.

15) When you know it's all stable you can then proceed to a higher FSB, but remember to not go much faster than your ram. Keep an eye on your temps(crucial). Adjust and tinker as needed. As long as you don't overheat things you're pretty much good to go. If all else fails try resetting your CMOS. Read your motherboard manual on how to do that.

16) About POWER. Remember the higher speed you force things to run, the more energy they will use. If you make your PSU work too much all the time it'll burn out just like a lightbulb, but usually alot more violently. Also PSU's are known to take your valuable goods(RAM,MOBO,CPU,GPU) with them to the grave when they die.

17) Ask questions.

18) Sorry about any spelling bloopers. It's 6:24 am and if you can't get past a word that's not spelled right or a sentence that isn't quite right then you can just go to hell. Have a nice day, good luck.

 

[datwunguy]

Wow, I'm speechless, you must have taken well over 15 mins to type that seeing that it took me about 10 mins to read (and process it). I think understand 90 percent of it, but I'm still confused on the fsb. I'll probably end up just increasing the fsb to 333 and then perhaps go no more than 350 from then on.

I'll make sure I'll keep an eye out on the temps of my system, but I what I'm most concerned is my PSU supplying enough energy. I know its very stable (seeing that I paid 80 bucks for this enermax liberty), but if I have to increase the voltage and such, I have no idea how do i check if my psu will be able to supply enough energy frequently? I'm the kind of computer user who likes to leave his computer on for about 24/7 with one or two days in the week where i turn it off overnight.

A few posts above, someone showed me a website to check if I have enough power in my psu, but I didn't use the website correctly or perhaps I was just clicking on the wrong links...

Much thanks for long and very well detailed instructions. I think I'm pretty much good on how to work things out from there on. I'm only concerned if my psu is able to supply enough energy now. I have a few parts that I'm going to purchase soon and I'll reply tonight with a list.

(I am quite curious though, how does the Artic silver 5 thermal paste work so well? I heard it decreases temps by a lot compared to other thermal paste. Is it that large of a difference? And if I was to remove the Psu, do i scrap off the old glue or what kind of alcohol to scrub the old glue off?)

 

[T8RR8R]

Once you start to tinker, change one thing at a time and see how it affects the system. If the system hangs then it's easier to know what isn't working right and you can undo your last change. Right away once you change a few things all of that jargen up there will make so much more sense. It's one of those things that are easier to understand if you see them done instead of having them explained.

I plugged in all your system specs along with a few other do-dads like cold cathodes and a sound card, basically you can OC to around 390FSB without any issues as long as your board will go that high and your cooling is enough. You can OC farther but I wouldn't recommend it for 24/7 use unless your get some more power. You have the amps, but not the watts.

I dunno if Arctic silver is really worth it since I change my crap so much it's a little bit of a waste of money however some people swear on the stuff as the holy cup, so it might be worth it to you to give it a shot. Anytime you remove your heatsink from your CPU you'll want to clean it off using 90% rubbing alcohol and a couple(10) Q-tips. I actually use carborator to clean it off, although I've never heard if it's good or bad for the CPU, but it sure cleans it off quick. Then I'll use a little 90%+ alcohol on a Q-tip to finish off the job. Carb cleaner does have some oils in it and I want to make sure those are gone as well as any residual thermal paste.