Shadows

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I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.

I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.

I've noticed that the enemy AI is very good at research or
trading technology. I've always been far behind the AI from the
second I meet my first civilization. Also how many units do you
need exactly to be considered strong? I found in the beginning
unless I start pumping out military units like mad everyone
thinks I'm a wimp.
 
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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in
news:slrnd5lfb6.1pnl.shadows@helena.whitefang.com:

> I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
>

I good place to find more information would be the alt.civ3 newsgroup which
is still active and forums on civfanatics website.



> I've noticed that the enemy AI is very good at research or
> trading technology. I've always been far behind the AI from the
> second I meet my first civilization. Also how many units do you
> need exactly to be considered strong? I found in the beginning
>unless I start pumping out military units like mad everyone
> thinks I'm a wimp.

Aggressive trading is the only way to keep up. Ususually early in the game,
the AI civs will be far ahead in tech, you need to focus on researching stuff
that they usually do not bother too and try to buy techs that the AI already
has researched.

data64
 
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In article <slrnd5lfb6.1pnl.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
shadows@whitefang.com says...
> I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
> found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
> play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.
>
> I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
>
> I've noticed that the enemy AI is very good at research or
> trading technology. I've always been far behind the AI from the
> second I meet my first civilization. Also how many units do you
> need exactly to be considered strong? I found in the beginning
> unless I start pumping out military units like mad everyone
> thinks I'm a wimp.

I just picked up the expansion pack over the weekend. Since I also got
WOW and Conquests was a bargain-bin afterthought, I haven't had much
time for Civ, but certainly it seems to be a lot harder at my usual
'Monarch' difficulty level.

I can't see myself using the three extra difficulty levels they added!

Do people cheat by re-loading to play these levels, or can you actually
compete (with standard world settings) by dint of micromanaging and
manipulating the AIs?

- Gerry Quinn
 
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Gerry Quinn wrote:
> In article <slrnd5lfb6.1pnl.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
> shadows@whitefang.com says...
>
>>I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
>>found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
>>play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.
>>
>>I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
>>

See www.civfanatics.com.

People do indeed win at the harder levels without cheating.
 
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In article <OK6dnSH-z8_HJsbfRVn-jg@comcast.com>, jlblue@comcast.net
says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
> > In article <slrnd5lfb6.1pnl.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
> > shadows@whitefang.com says...
> >
> >>I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
> >>found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
> >>play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.
> >>
> >>I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
> >>
>
> See www.civfanatics.com.
>
> People do indeed win at the harder levels without cheating.

I had a look. I guess controlling the tech choice to avoid the ones
the AI chooses is the key thing I need to do.

I also forget to build enough mines in the early days, mostly because
of my long experience with previous Civs.

- Gerry Quinn
 

Shadows

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On 2005-04-13, Gerry Quinn <gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:

> I had a look. I guess controlling the tech choice to avoid the ones
> the AI chooses is the key thing I need to do.

I remember in Civ3 where you could, at Regent level, surpass
everyone in research and kick their butts with tanks while they
were still building knights.

This doesn't happen as often in Conquests.
 
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:54:21 -0500, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-04-13, Gerry Quinn <gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:
>
>> I had a look. I guess controlling the tech choice to avoid the ones
>> the AI chooses is the key thing I need to do.
>
>I remember in Civ3 where you could, at Regent level, surpass
>everyone in research and kick their butts with tanks while they
>were still building knights.
>
>This doesn't happen as often in Conquests.

Overall, the AI seems smarter and the rules better balanced in
Conquests. That is nice, as Regent is the level where the AI is
comparable to the human in production. It is nice to have an AI
competitor who doesn't need massive bonuses in order to offer a
challenge to most players.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:09:24 -0500, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
>found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
>play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.
>
>I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
>
>I've noticed that the enemy AI is very good at research or
>trading technology. I've always been far behind the AI from the
>second I meet my first civilization. Also how many units do you
>need exactly to be considered strong? I found in the beginning
>unless I start pumping out military units like mad everyone
>thinks I'm a wimp.

The AI seems improved in its handling of trade and research in
Conquests. Even so, though, the same principles apply as in any of
the Civ3 games (and earlier Civs as well). Maximizing research means
building a good commerce-generating empire. Trading is critical in
Civ3. The AI is going to go around trading techs to the other AIs.
Unless you also join in the trading circle -- and the AI rarely offers
to you, so you have to approach the AI -- you'll lose out.

Military strength is relative to that of your opponent, so you need
to match whatever they build. Numbers and quality both count.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 

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On 2005-04-13, Jeffery S Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote:

> Overall, the AI seems smarter and the rules better balanced in
> Conquests. That is nice, as Regent is the level where the AI is
> comparable to the human in production. It is nice to have an AI
> competitor who doesn't need massive bonuses in order to offer a
> challenge to most players.

Sort of but the AI is cheating somewhat thanks to the trade
algorithm. Essentially the AI is conservative. It will happily
stay at the same tech level as its buddies by giving and taking
techs. In the game "The Prisoners Dilemma" the AI would be
cooperating on each turn instead of defecting.

The result is accelerated tech development but if the player
decides to defect he's always screwed so you HAVE to cooperate to
get ahead.

I'm not saying the AI isn't "better" but it's certainly using
some strategies that work well when everyone in the game uses
them. If the game was only one AI player and all human players I
suspect it won't fair as well.

Also these types of tactics make researching tech less
diserable. It's far better to buy all your tech and just
concentrate on pumping out units to demolish your competition.
 
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:01:09 +0100, Gerry Quinn
<gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:

>In article <OK6dnSH-z8_HJsbfRVn-jg@comcast.com>, jlblue@comcast.net
>says...
>> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>> > In article <slrnd5lfb6.1pnl.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
>> > shadows@whitefang.com says...
>> >
>> >>I picked up Civ 3 with the two expansions at trygames.com and
>> >>found that Conquests is EXTREMELY hard at Regent level. I can
>> >>play CPTW and the vanilla Civ3 just fine.
>> >>
>> >>I am hoping someone here can give me a few tips with Conquests.
>> >>
>>
>> See www.civfanatics.com.
>>
>> People do indeed win at the harder levels without cheating.
>
>I had a look. I guess controlling the tech choice to avoid the ones
>the AI chooses is the key thing I need to do.

That's always a key thing to do if you want to beat the AI in
research--but you've got to trade to capitalize on it.

Traditionally in Civ, your biggest advantage as a player is that the
AI grossly overspends on military units (especially on maintaining
obsolete military units), though I haven't seen how much this has
improve in Conquests (haven't played it yet). Don't be afraid to be a
wimp, until late in the game (most of the time, the AI won't pick on
wimps unless they're either really choice targets or looking like
they're threatening to win). But again, I'm not sure if that's
changed in Conquests.

Scott Orr
 
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In article <sjhq51lftnupg5c813scu5q8bb90uqejbo@4ax.com>,
jeffsj@execpc.com says...

> The AI seems improved in its handling of trade and research in
> Conquests. Even so, though, the same principles apply as in any of
> the Civ3 games (and earlier Civs as well). Maximizing research means
> building a good commerce-generating empire. Trading is critical in
> Civ3. The AI is going to go around trading techs to the other AIs.
> Unless you also join in the trading circle -- and the AI rarely offers
> to you, so you have to approach the AI -- you'll lose out.

In Civ2 my usual strategy was to go for the Great Library, then ease
off on research for a while. Usually I found communism the best
government - you generate plenty of shields, and the AIs are cautious
about attacking you.

There were various tech windows for going to war - IIRC howitzers and
mechanical infantry were the main one. And having built up lots of
cash (even under communism you can get good money and research if you
grow to a decent size and keep costs down) I could buy recalcitrant
cities.

- Gerry Quinn
 
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:01:07 +0100, Gerry Quinn
<gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:

>In article <sjhq51lftnupg5c813scu5q8bb90uqejbo@4ax.com>,
>jeffsj@execpc.com says...
>
>> The AI seems improved in its handling of trade and research in
>> Conquests. Even so, though, the same principles apply as in any of
>> the Civ3 games (and earlier Civs as well). Maximizing research means
>> building a good commerce-generating empire. Trading is critical in
>> Civ3. The AI is going to go around trading techs to the other AIs.
>> Unless you also join in the trading circle -- and the AI rarely offers
>> to you, so you have to approach the AI -- you'll lose out.
>
>In Civ2 my usual strategy was to go for the Great Library, then ease
>off on research for a while. Usually I found communism the best
>government - you generate plenty of shields, and the AIs are cautious
>about attacking you.

The Great Library remains a nice option in Civ3, but the requirement
to have contact in order to gain techs is a limitation if you are
isolated. At difficulty levels where the AI will outresearch the
human, this kind of thing is almost an ideal strategy. I'd rather do
all my own research, but it doesn't pay if the AI gets it *much*
cheaper than you. You are better off buying techs -- the price drops
as more players know them, so being the last to get the tech is
actually a good thing, economically.

>There were various tech windows for going to war - IIRC howitzers and
>mechanical infantry were the main one. And having built up lots of
>cash (even under communism you can get good money and research if you
>grow to a decent size and keep costs down) I could buy recalcitrant
>cities.

Civ3 has different tech windows, and they aren't as decisive.
Defense has a lot more advantages in Civ3.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:08:20 -0500, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-04-13, Jeffery S Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote:
>
>> Overall, the AI seems smarter and the rules better balanced in
>> Conquests. That is nice, as Regent is the level where the AI is
>> comparable to the human in production. It is nice to have an AI
>> competitor who doesn't need massive bonuses in order to offer a
>> challenge to most players.
>
>Sort of but the AI is cheating somewhat thanks to the trade
>algorithm. Essentially the AI is conservative. It will happily
>stay at the same tech level as its buddies by giving and taking
>techs. In the game "The Prisoners Dilemma" the AI would be
>cooperating on each turn instead of defecting.
>
>The result is accelerated tech development but if the player
>decides to defect he's always screwed so you HAVE to cooperate to
>get ahead.

The AI isn't perfect at this though. Its basis for trading is the
value it assigns to the tech. Cooperation is rewarded, but only to a
limited degree. If any AI literally can't give enough value to pay
for a tech, it loses out -- unless and until it gets something worth
trading.

>I'm not saying the AI isn't "better" but it's certainly using
>some strategies that work well when everyone in the game uses
>them. If the game was only one AI player and all human players I
>suspect it won't fair as well.
>
>Also these types of tactics make researching tech less
>diserable. It's far better to buy all your tech and just
>concentrate on pumping out units to demolish your competition.

The trading mechanism is built into the game tightly. If you don't
play along, you have little hope of achieving a technological lead,
and can't really do well on difficulty levels below regent.

At higher difficulty levels, though, you are right -- the system
rewards delayed trading, buying techs rather than researching you own.
As long as you don't need to be cutting edge, using volume to make up
for superiority, you can do quite nicely. So can the AI, though --
but I'm not sure if the AI ever gets this "idea" and stops its own
research to gather gold for trade.


--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>