Question Clean install BSOD or Freeze on Graphics Driver install

vaderag

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I've just purchased a refurb machine (this one) to replace an old machine that the motherboard died on and is serving as an Arcade machine.

The needs are pretty low, hence the cheap purchase, but I'm trying to put my old graphics card in there

Again that's old, but working, an MSI geforce GT 740
Seems drivers are still supported (with some caveats) on the nvidia site, so I've downloaded and installed

No matter what I do, when it finishes the driver install I either get the Video TDR Failure nvlddmkm.sys and a bsod or it just freezes and reboots. Sometimes it fully reboots, sometimes it freezes at the windows logo

I'm at a bit of a loss where to go now, I've removed the drivers and reinstalled both in normal and safe mode, but always end up at the same point
 

Lutfij

Titan
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Might want to first make sure that the prebuilt is on the latest BIOS version. Then use DDU to remove all remnants of GPU drivers, then manually install the latest GPU driver sourced from Nvidia's support site, in an elevated command, i.,e Right click installer>Run as Administrator. Make and model of the PSU in the build?
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
You sure the motherboard was the problem on the old system and not the graphics card?

What is the exact model of that machine? Should be a sticker on it, if not, then knowing the exact specs INCLUDING the exact model of the power supply would be necessary/compulsory information.

On a machine as old as that one probably is, it would also be a very good idea to put a new CMOS battery in there at minimum. Dead or weak CMOS battery can cause all kinds of different problems and not all of them are POST related. After doing so making sure it's on the latest available BIOS version is a good idea as well IF there is a newer one available from HP for the motherboard in that machine. However, since this was originally a Compaq based on the information on that page and the fact that it is SERIOUSLY legacy, and not really supported by HP anymore, don't be surprised if the problem is simply a lack of suitable Windows 10 drivers for it.
 
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vaderag

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So I've tested the graphics card in another machine so pretty confident it's not that

Just left the house but I'll post the sticker later for the exact model of the machine

I checked all the latest drivers etc soon as I got it, sadly no bios update available - it was only using 7.8ish GB of the RAM according to Windows as well, unsure if relevant since assumed might be related to using onboard graphics but maybe indicating a lack of power??
 

vaderag

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What version of Windows are you installing?
I'm on Windows 10 Home latest non-insider ring

NB. The OS worked fine before I got around to installing the graphics card
EDIT: I've also run a memory check and that came up with no issues too (did this when I was trying to work out why windows said it was only 7.8gbish of the 8gb ram was usable)
 

vaderag

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Then use DDU to remove all remnants of GPU drivers, then manually install the latest GPU driver sourced from Nvidia's support site, in an elevated command, i.,e Right click installer>Run as Administrator.
Just tried this and on completion I received a BSOD "Machine Check Exception" :(
 

vaderag

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OS was already installed when I purchased the machine, but I did an inplace re-install using the cloud as the source when I received it
 

vaderag

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OMG - I think I've resolved it...
Was just about to rip out the card, give up and order another and I noticed there was a second PCI-E slot on the machine

I had it in the 16x one but plugged the card into the 4x one and it seems to be working (at least on the older driver that it somehow found when I booted up...!)

Just installing the latest driver to see if it still works (after creating a restore point just in case...)

No idea why the different port would make a difference
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
OS was already installed when I purchased the machine, but I did an inplace re-install using the cloud as the source when I received it
This won't work 99% of the time. New/different hardware, especially when the chipset and storage controllers are different very rarely works without some kind of problems. It would be highly advisable to do a clean install, which is NOT the same as an in-place reinstall, reset, refresh, restore or any other method of installing Windows INCLUDING a fresh installation over the top of the already existing partitions. A clean install requires that during the installation you choose the "Custom" option, delete all the existing partitions on the drive and then install to the unpartitioned, unformatted drive space that remains.

 

vaderag

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This won't work 99% of the time. New/different hardware, especially when the chipset and storage controllers are different very rarely works without some kind of problems. It would be highly advisable to do a clean install, which is NOT the same as an in-place reinstall, reset, refresh, restore or any other method of installing Windows INCLUDING a fresh installation over the top of the already existing partitions. A clean install requires that during the installation you choose the "Custom" option, delete all the existing partitions on the drive and then install to the unpartitioned, unformatted drive space that remains.

While I'm agree this is all best practice, I don't believe this would cause the inconsistency between x4 and x16 pcie ports tho...
The only difference on the machine is the graphics card so storage/chipsets haven't changed
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
IF the graphics card is working in a different slot but not in the primary x16 slot, then either the motherboard or the CPU is bad, usually. It CAN be a bad card, but it would be very unusual for it to work in the x4 slot but not in the x16 slot if it was the card.

For example, another thread I just helped solve recently that displayed the exact same behavior, almost, as yours, including it would work in the lower x18 slot (But only at x8 speeds as the secondary slot is limited) but not in the primary one. Ended up being the CPU, BUT, it can be anything related to the PCIe bus on the x16 slot's circuit which can be the slot itself, the card, the motherboard or the CPU. Usually though, it is almost always either the CPU or the motherboard if the x16 slot isn't working but another slot is. At least in my experience anyhow.


Also, there is always the SLIGHT chance of it still being the power supply as the x4 slot can only supply up to 25w while the x16 slot can supply up to 75w, and that 50w difference might be enough to bork the whole operation if the PSU is weak or faulty. Personally, if you are still within the return window it might be better just to simply return it and look at other options.
 
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vaderag

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IF the graphics card is working in a different slot but not in the primary x6 slot, then either the motherboard or the CPU is bad, usually. It CAN be a bad card, but it would be very unusual for it to work in the x4 slot but not in the x16 slot if it was the card.

For example, another thread I just helped solve recently that displayed the exact same behavior, almost, as yours, including it would work in the lower x18 slot (But only at x8 speeds as the secondary slot is limited) but not in the primary one. Ended up being the CPU, BUT, it can be anything related to the PCIe bus on the x16 slot's circuit which can be the slot itself, the card, the motherboard or the CPU. Usually though, it is almost always either the CPU or the motherboard if the x16 slot isn't working but another slot is. At least in my experience anyhow.


Also, there is always the SLIGHT chance of it still being the power supply as the x4 slot can only supply up to 25w while the x16 slot can supply up to 75w, and that 50w difference might be enough to bork the whole operation if the PSU is weak or faulty. Personally, if you are still within the return window it might be better just to simply return it and look at other options.
Thanks - I think that's pretty much the conclusion I've reached - there is something awry in the hardware - not quite sure what it is, but something is off.
I'm going to ask them for a return or replacement
 

vaderag

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Well, somewhat unbelievably, they asked me to remove the cpu and take a look (check for bent pins etc)but offered me the chance to return it

Removed the CPU and there was a bit of thermal paste stuck underneath...
brushed it away carefully with a makeup brush and swapped the card over to the other slot to test

Got an error on first boot (I didn't quite catch what it was but it was a red cross window as opposed to BSOD, but on the second boot it started correctly and all looks good.
Ran a quick graphics benchmark also seems to be okay

Is there any more exhaustive testing I can do to check that there isn't anything awry with the CPU?
 

vaderag

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And you're not seeing any further problems? Everything is working as expected? Does this system have an Intel or AMD processor?
As far as I can tell. I've not had it doing much so can't say for certain but just ran the heaven benchmark and it didn't break

It's an Intel i5
 

Darkbreeze

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Then I'd recommend you run the Intel CPU diagnostic tool, but be sure to run it for a version of it that is intended to be used for your, or legacy, processors. Newest versions might not return accurate results. Knowing EXACTLY which model you have would allow me to provide you with an accurate link or you can simply find it online yourself as well.
 

vaderag

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Hmm... looks like i may have spoken too soon
First boot this morning and it reset itself on the way into windows - second boot loaded fine

Checked EventViewer and it says
The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck. The bugcheck was: 0x00000116 (0xffffd88b46586460, 0xfffff80164a02bc8, 0x0000000000000000, 0x000000000000000d). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\MEMORY.DMP. Report Id: 787a8781-bfef-4969-a0cb-d6c435181a9f.
Quick google and this seems related to the Video TDR Issue I was seeing previously :(

BTW, the CPU is
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 660 @ 3.33GHz 3.47 GHz
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Well, that CPU is 12 years old. That's an incredibly old platform and it's highly likely that there are going to be some modern applications and software that it won't run. Since you are having problems as well I'd definitely return it if they are willing to allow you to. Old is one thing, but that is seriously approaching the "unusable" category.
 

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