clone a vesuvan doppleganger

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi,

Is the following correct?

If I have a Vesuvan Doppleganger copying a Gray Ogre, that fact that
it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this
creature become a copy of target creature except for its color. If you
do, this creature gains this ability." isn't a copiable value. So when
I later Clone the Doppleganger, it doesn't gain the extra ability and
can't change during the upkeep.

Right?

thanks,
David


Vesuvan Doppelganger
{3}{U}{U}
Creature -- Doppelganger
0/0
As ~this~ comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you
do, ~this~ comes into play as a copy of that creature except for its
color and gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this
creature become a copy of target creature except for its color. If you
do, this creature gains this ability."

Gray Ogre
{2}{R}
Creature -- Ogre
2/2

Clone
{3}{U}
Creature -- Clone
0/0
As ~this~ comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you
do, ~this~ comes into play as a copy of that creature.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> writes:
> If I have a Vesuvan Doppleganger copying a Gray Ogre, that fact that
> it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this
> creature become a copy of target creature except for its color. If you
> do, this creature gains this ability." isn't a copiable value. So when
> I later Clone the Doppleganger, it doesn't gain the extra ability and
> can't change during the upkeep.
>
> Right?

Nope. The "this gains this ability" is a part of the copy-effect, and
thus is copied by other copy-effects. See the example in the
Comp. Rules under 503.3 for its explanation of your scenario.

(I'm not sure exactly how you'd get to that result without the example
in the Rulebook. But since it's there, I'm fairly confident that it's
the right answer.)

--
Peter C.
"Timeline? This is no time to talk about time. We don't have the time!"
-- Troi, Star Trek: First Contact

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:00:31 +0100, David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>If I have a Vesuvan Doppleganger copying a Gray Ogre, that fact that
>it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this
>creature become a copy of target creature except for its color. If you
>do, this creature gains this ability." isn't a copiable value.

Not correct.

>So when
>I later Clone the Doppleganger, it doesn't gain the extra ability and
>can't change during the upkeep.

Not correct. Copy effects can copy other copy effects' effects just fine;
it's the layers -above- "copy effects" that they can't see, which is all
the rest of them.

"Becomes a copy of Foo with ability Bar" means that the copy has the copiable
values of Foo, with an additional copiable value Bar added on. A copy of
this will get a Foo with Bar. 503.9 in the rulebook covers this specifically.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Nov 2004, David DeLaney wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:00:31 +0100, David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>> If I have a Vesuvan Doppleganger copying a Gray Ogre, that fact that
>> it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this
>> creature become a copy of target creature except for its color. If you
>> do, this creature gains this ability." isn't a copiable value.
>
> Not correct.
>
>> So when
>> I later Clone the Doppleganger, it doesn't gain the extra ability and
>> can't change during the upkeep.
>
> Not correct. Copy effects can copy other copy effects' effects just fine;
> it's the layers -above- "copy effects" that they can't see, which is all
> the rest of them.
>
> "Becomes a copy of Foo with ability Bar" means that the copy has the copiable
> values of Foo, with an additional copiable value Bar added on. A copy of
> this will get a Foo with Bar. 503.9 in the rulebook covers this specifically.

Dave,

Reading this I would say that a VD copying a VD has 2 upkeep triggers.
Some time ago you sayd this was being discussed. Did anything come out
of this discussion?

--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>Reading this I would say that a VD copying a VD has 2 upkeep triggers.
>Some time ago you sayd this was being discussed. Did anything come out
>of this discussion?

Not yet, alas. (Right now the discussions are about landwalk and about various
kinds of duration.) I can see if I can poke it over that way.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.