Combat damage and triggered abilities

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Hello, All!
I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules. Today I
stumbled over the following:
310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even if the
creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or
the creature receiving damage has left combat.

Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the stack".
For example:
My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things), I block
with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but before it
resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings the Angel
with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the damage has
been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense). According to
310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4 damage
"into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.

Is the above conclusion correct?

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:

> Hello, All!
> I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules. Today I
> stumbled over the following:
> 310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even if the
> creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or
> the creature receiving damage has left combat.
>
> Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the stack".
> For example:
> My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things), I block
> with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but before it
> resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings the Angel
> with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the damage has
> been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense). According to
> 310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4 damage
> "into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.
>
> Is the above conclusion correct?

No. The creature receiving the damage leaving play prevents the damage from
being dealt (note that this exception is not listed here, there are ways to
leave combat other than leaving play). The Exalted Angel's ability will not
trigger since it cannot deal its damage.

--
Lee Sharpe, sharpe@uiuc.edu
DCI Level 2 Judge

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg wrote on Wed, 19 May 2004 15:26:44 -0400:

AZ> Hello, All!
AZ> I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules.
AZ> Today I
AZ> stumbled over the following:
AZ> 310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even
AZ> if the
AZ> creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has
AZ> changed, or
AZ> the creature receiving damage has left combat.

AZ> Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the
AZ> stack".
AZ> For example:
AZ> My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things),
AZ> I block
AZ> with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but
AZ> before it
AZ> resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings
AZ> the Angel
AZ> with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the
AZ> damage has
AZ> been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense).
AZ> According to
AZ> 310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4
AZ> damage
AZ> "into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.

AZ> Is the above conclusion correct?

Turns out it isn't: here is the rule a few lines below the one I quoted:
310.4c If a creature that was supposed to receive combat damage is no
longer in play or is no longer a creature, the damage assigned to it isn
't dealt.
Since in my example the Baloth is no longer in play, the damage to it
isn't dealt.

It's a pity, though, that rule 310.4a does not contain something along
the lines of "... but is still a creature in play." after "has left
combat" - this would be much less confusing.

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello, All!
>I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules.

A useful and occasionally interesting (or horrifying) quest, if possibly
lifelong...

> Today I
>stumbled over the following:
>310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even if the
>creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or
>the creature receiving damage has left combat.

Right.

Also, it will be dealt if the permanent it's from is stll in play but isn't a
creature any more.

(It can't be dealt _to_ something that's not a creature, or not in play,
any more, but the game has no problems with having it be dealt _from_ such
an object.)

>Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the stack".
>For example:
>My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things), I block
>with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but before it
>resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings the Angel
>with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the damage has
>been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense). According to
>310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4 damage
>"into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.

No. 310.4a says if the _Angel_ disappears the damage still gets dealt _from_
the Angel, and that if the Baloth disappears the damage from -it- still
gets dealt to the Angel. It does NOT say that if the Baloth disappears the
Angel can deal damage to it.

In this case the Angel deals no damage, because there's no creature in play
any more where it's trying to put the damage; the missing Baloth deals damage
to the Angel just fine.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg sez:

<<
>Hello, All!
>I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules. Today I
>stumbled over the following:
>310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even if the
>creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or
>the creature receiving damage has left combat.
>
>Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the stack".
>For example:
>My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things), I block
>with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but before it
>resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings the Angel
>with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the damage has
>been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense). According to
>310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4 damage
>"into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.
>
>Is the above conclusion correct?
>
>>

No. Just look two letters down, and you'll know why:

310.4c If a creature that was supposed to receive combat damage is no longer in
play or is no longer a creature, the damage assigned to it isn't dealt.


----
"If President Bush is going to take credit for 'the invisble hand' [of
economics], then he's going to take the blame when 'the hand' gives him the
finger."
--From Fark.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg wrote:

> Hello, All!
> I'm continuing my quest to fully read Comprehensive Rules. Today I
> stumbled over the following:
> 310.4a Combat damage is dealt as it was originally assigned even if the
> creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or
> the creature receiving damage has left combat.
>
> Many players love to do something "while the damage is on the stack".
> For example:
> My opponent attacks with a Ravenous Baloth (among other things), I block
> with an Exalted Angel. After the damage has been assigned but before it
> resolves, the opponent sacrifices the Baloth (and, say, pings the Angel
> with a Granite Shard - just so that waiting until *after* the damage has
> been assigned before sacrificing the Baloth makes sense). According to
> 310.4a, when the damage resolves, the Angel still deals its 4 damage
> "into nothingness" and triggers its life-gaining ability.
>
> Is the above conclusion correct?

No. In order for the damage to actually be dealt, the creature it's
aiming to land on must still be in play. (This is true of all damage
aimed at creatures, not just combat damage) Note that the creature
being damaged leaving play is *not* one of the things enumerated in
310.4a as not affecting combat damage. Leaving combat is, leaving play
is not.
>
> Regards,
> Arkady.

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"