Combining memory modules with different timings.

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von Kluge

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Sep 6, 2014
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Hi, everyone, I need your help please.
I know this subject has been discussed countless times on this forum and other forums as well, but for my security, please let me open it one more time, for a very specific case.
Actually I just want more experienced users opinions, people who already tried this (and worked, hopefully), before doing anything stupid on my hard earned PC.
Yes, it's about mixing memory modules :)
This is an old PC, I love it and more importantly, I dont have the cash to replace it, so please do not tell me to buy other hardware, I know what I shoud buy if I'd have the money, but I dont, so we have to build from what we have. OK, thanks for understanding :)
So here is what we have:
1.) Mobo: Asus Crosshair II formula -old one, but I just love it.
2.) Processor: Athlon II X2 250 3000mhz - I just could't find anything else with low consumption
3.) memory: 2 modules of corsair xms2 cm2x2048 pc2-6400, with timing 5-5-5-18, voltage 1.8v - that is 4gb of ddr2 ram on 800mhz
4.) more memory: 2 modules of 1gb Adata Vitesta Extreme DDR2 800 mhz, cl 4-4-4-12, voltage 2.0V.
5.) supply: noname but reliable chinese 650 W power supply (it has a name, but dont ask me, it's not a corsair or anything fancy, but does the job)
6.) os: win 8.1

Goal: i woud like to increase ram to 6gb, combining the 2x2gb corsair modules with 2x1gb Adata modules

Questions:
1. does it worth it? I mean I need the more ram for playing games like rome 2 tw or other memory hungry games, but will it help in your opinion?

2. if combinig does help in performance, than what sould the memory timings and voltage be? how to set them up to gain a stable system?
my logic (and others on forums) says the whole thing should work on 5-5-5-18 on 1.8 volts. (I dont mind loosing the adata modules, but I would kill all my neighbours if the corsair xms2 would go dead.) Or should I OC the corsairs to 4-4-4 at 2.0 volts? or bring them all to a middle 1.9 volts?

3. everyone says combining the modules with different timings is NOT ADVISED, but nobody says why not? if you can manually set the timings, then why is it not advised? what can go wrong? I'm really curious about this question, because I dont really know what happens in a ram module's inner life, but I would like to understand.

4. some say it is advised to lower the freq to 667 mhz on both, that would result in a stable system. Why? (I have 667mhz samsung modules, I could use those if you advise to set up a 667mhz system.)

Well, that's all :) Thank you for your time in advance.


PS: forgot to mention, i plan to use them in dual mode obviously, corsairs in channel 1 (a1, b1), adata in channel 2 (a2, b2)
All modules have been excesively tested separately with memtest and all are OK. Both modue types are compatible with motherboard (they are on the vendor list)
 
Solution
Tradesman1
Not going to work with the tighter timings it seems, so can try the Corsairs at their stock settings and raise the DRAM voltage to 1.9 then try adding the older sticks
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How effective it will be, or whether it will work is questionable but if you already have the ram just put it in and see how it goes. Worst case scenario it won't boot.

It's not advised because it often does not work so when buying new ram it's usually recommended to spend a little more to ensure that it will work, but you won't do any damage by trying it out.
 
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Thanks for your reply. Yes, you are right, but the a-data's were more like a heritage than a purchase, I mean I bought them in a pack with the mobo, it was very cheap this way, so the only directional purchase were the corsairs
 
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Well, i tried as described above, 800mhz with timings 5-5-5-18 on 1.8 volts, all set manually, and it's working, I'm writing from the working system :) cpu-z now sees thw 6gb on dual ch. Question is: will it be stable? I will let it running all night, and maybe i'll come back tomorrow to post the result.
 
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Something went wrong, but I dunno what exactly. System is working, but unstable. Went ok for a couple of hours, then gave me a few of system crashes on w8.1, softwares frozen out and not responding, stuff like that. Took out the adata modules and now is ok, but I'd like to know more about it. so I'll leave the topic open, if anybody has any ideeas, it wil be more than wellcome.
 
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You can up the voltage to 1,9V,You could also set the ram to 667mhz.You could even try both if one doesn't work.Lowering speed is probably the nr1 thing to do.

Read this again and saw this,


might be for the lower latency's,but try both ram also at 2.0V.It shouldn't do harm to the corsair sticks.
 
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Thanks for the reply, vic. And if I put them all to 2.0V, what sould the timings be? 4-4-4-12 to all ? Honestly I dont really understand the corelation between voltage and timing...


OK, and if I lower them to 667 Mhz, then I probably gain nothing. I mean what will give better performance, 4GB at 800Mhz or 6 Gb RAM at 667 Mhz on win 8.1? For many this seems a stupid question, I know, but in my logic this is quantity vs quality...
 
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Keep timings to the slowest being 5-5-5-18,might even be possible with 1.9V.Maybe that 4-4-4-12 will work with all sticks at 2.0V,but that's up to you to test.
For lower timings to work might a stick need higher voltage to maintain stability,as said the reason why the lower timing stick works at 2.0V
The difference between 800mhz of 667mhz isn't going to be that big so depends on what you want,a lot of games and even programs like to use more than 4gb now and will they work better with 6gb at a lower speed than 4gb at a higher speed.Again can you first try at 800mhz.
It's also possible that the older platform you have isn't comfortable with four sticks at a higher speed.Maybe keep that in mind when having to stick to lower speeds.
Just test different settings and see where it leads to.Try 4-4-4-12 at 2.0V and if not working try 2.1V.If not working could you try the same speed at 5-5-5-15 (or the last even at 18) at 2.0V (again maybe up to 2.1V) .etc.,in the end you maybe have to lower speed too.You understand what i mean and if not i'll hear from you.
 
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Ok, i've tried running just the xms2 corsairs on 4-4-4-12 at 2.0 volts by themselves, no adatas. System booted, I opened a few pages, and then windows crashed after 3-4 minutes of usage. I was thinking: should I have to fiddle with CPU clocks as well?
 
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yes, I already did that, that was my fisrt shot, but adding the adata modules (4-4-4-12) running at 5-5-5-18 gave me an unstable system, wich also booted, but crashed after a while. see this post http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2526804/combining-memory-modules-timings.html#15244302

I think I'll stop playing with it until I fully understand the whole ideea. Any good tutorials or guides about timing? I've already read through all the oc forums and crsshair II forums, but I got no smarter.... :s
 
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You could ask Tradesman1 for assistance,he's the master of ram when it comes to this.You can p.m. him and ask for help with a link to this topic.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/community/profile-1333705.htm
 
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All right, initially lets try the Corsairs in slots 1-3 (think blue on that mobo), and set manually to the spec 800, with timings of 4-4-4-16, and DRAM voltage of 1.95, CR (Command rate/Timing of 2N (think this uses the N suffix it might use a T so 2T), and raise the CPU/NB voltage (or simply NB voltage up + 0.065 from current. Then give them a try. If all is good, shut down and add the Adata isn slots 2-4 and try booting to BIOS - if that's good raise DRAM voltage to 2.0 and give it a whirl
 
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Hi, Tradesman, thank you. I just did as you said: slots and freq 800 were already set, then i set timings to 4-4-4-16, command rate 2T, dram voltage to 1.960, because i do not have the 1.950 option, only 1.940 then 1.960, in increments of 0,02.
(i also have something like ddr2 controller ref voltage, and DDR2 Channel A ref voltage and channel B ref voltage (so i guess i can set different voltages to channels in increments steps of plus-minus 30 mv), but i left those untouched on auto)
then vcore: amd says stock voltage for athlon II x2 250 is BETWEEN 0.85-1.425V. CPUz said before that cpu works at 1.408 V, so I increased it to 1.4125 (next value under it is 1.4000,then 1.4075, 1.4125, steps are of 0,075 increments)

Result: booting all right, but system unstable. two Blue screen deaths, one said :
🙁 Your PC ran into problem blablabla, problem: memory_management

second said something about system_thread_exception_not_handled ntfs.sys

Rebooted and set back the vcore to auto, and now there are no BSDs, but chrome crashed 3 times already, and some services stopped running, no network, no audio. This is the third time I start writing this post, i hope this time i get to the end of it...

Heureka, succesful post. Now, i dunno what NB voltage is, i think you refer vcore-cpu voltage. Options I have is auto or manual setting, but for manual I have to know exactly what i want. I i dont really know WHAT plus 0.065... i just figured 1.408 was original, but cpuz might lie to me :)
 
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uh oh, I just found something that looks like VDDNB voltage, is this that you referred to? It has increments of +100mv (mili volts? ). I will try to raise that with +0,065, that would be 650 mv, right?

Oh boy, sometimes I feel really sorry for not learning computer electronics instead of ... well, of other things I have chosen to study :)

UPDATE: mentioned VDDNB voltage has a range of +100 to +450 mv, increments of +50mv/unit. Now I am totally lost about that +0,065
 
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All right, doing as you said. Tried to write a log about changes:

1st. 1,94 volt, vddNB +100 : windows boot failed, BSD message>page_fault_in_nonpaged area wdf01000.sys
2nd. 1.94 v, vddNB +150 mv: BSD Memory_management
3rd. 1.94V, vddNB +200, turns yellow in BIOS, slow windows boot, slow startups, software crashes, windows crashes, BSD message: unexpected_kernel_ could not read further, reboot
4th. 1.94V, vdNB+250mv, bios turns yellow, boot directly into Blue Screen of Death, message: sys_thread_exception_not_handled atiwhatever.sys

switched to 1.96 volts

5th. 1.96 V, +100mv: boot failure, BSD page_fault_in_mapped_area
6th. 1.96V, +150 mv: windows lost all my settings, started reconfuguring setup, then appcrashes, death. BSD: critical_struture_corruption.

ok, this is where I stop , this sounds bad. Actually, sounds critical to me 🙁

update: i laid my hands on a notebook so I can keep in touch with you, Set back everything to normal (5-5-5-18, 1,8V) and seems that all turned back to normal, windows is normal again
 
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Ok, I tried just raising the voltage to 1.9 for the corsairs, to see how it works. System seems stable, although I'm a little bit worried about the temperature increase on the long run (this PC has to work nonstop 24/7). But it has coolers installed, shouldnt be a problem... Going for the extra 2gb now.

UPDATE:

OK, we are ON. 6GB's on 5-5-5-18, 1,9V. System seems all right and stable for now . Yupiii :)
I will try to put it under stress with something for a longer period of time, also to get some temp monitoring software.

Tradesman, THANK YOU very much for your help, this means a lot to me. I mean I came here for help, but I am used with not getting any (on other forums, on other subjects. I never had to do hardware configuration like this before, so I never had to come here before). But this was not the case, and I appreciate it a lot.
I know to some ppl 16-32 Gb is piece of cake, but to me this 6Gb is more than I ever had. So I'm happy now :)

And of course, thank you vic 40 and byza, without you I would have give up or burn my pc in the first day :)

I will leave this open, just in case some instabilities would show up in time, and if yes, I will PM you with your permission...

Thanks a lot, guys.


POST-UP-UPDATE: Actually this is what vic 40 said at the beginning as well, but I cannot pick 2 best solutions, only one. Thanks, vic
Keep timings to the slowest being 5-5-5-18,might even be possible with 1.9V
Click to expand...
 
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