Command Rate & Row Refresh Cycle Time

[adamh9]

I have a 2x2GB sticks of Gskill F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK and I want to try clocking my command rate to 1T. When i go into bios and set this setting to 1, CPU-z still reports it at a 2T timing. When i put "0" in my BIOS it automatically sets to auto and shows the default clock to be 0. Is there any way around this? Also I was wondering how low I can set my Row Refresh Cycle Time (Trc in BIOS). Cpuz reports it at 74, how low can this usually go and will I need to increase voltages?

 

[welshmousepk]

you can't just 'set' command rate to 1t and expect it to work.

have you overclocked RAM before? you need to play with timings and loosen them to allow it. getting to 1t isn't easy in many cases, and its not just a case of switching it.

 

[adamh9]

thanks for the reply. no I haven't overclocked ram before besides the basic cas latency. Is 1t a big improvement over 2T?

 

[welshmousepk]

as far as RAM overclocking goes, yes. it kind of the best you can hope for.

but overclocking RAM is more about the fun, than the performance gains. since its usually unnoticeable. 1t is only worth going for if you enjoy overclocking. its not worth pursuing if you want more FPS or faster boot times.

 

[adamh9]

well i have dove into CPU overclocking quite a bit and I do enjoy it alot. I know what you mean, it's fun to see how much you can push what ya got. I do play pretty careful though, as I sure don't have the $ to replace anything on my new rig I just built ya know? So the thing I'm curious about is when I set the 1T timing, windows boots fine but cpuz still reports it as 2T. Usually if I undervolt something or give to much, my system will reboot a few times and the BIOS will let me know the settings were no stable. I am wondering why this isn't happening with this setting?

 

[welshmousepk]

im not entirely sure, it may just be that its isn't stable at 1t, so its reverting to default.

ive never actually attempted to clock at 1t before, so im not entirely sure what happens when it fails. but if you havn't loosened any other timings, i wouldn't expect it to work. so i assume it is just falling back to 2t.

i enjoy overclocking and benchmarking more than actually gaming these days. a little sad, but it keeps me off the streets .

IMO, ram isn't really worth the effort. i tightened the timings on mine and left it. no need to do any more. im still always playing about with my CPU and GPU trying to get more out of them. just the other day i managed to get my CPU up to 3.6ghz unlocked. thinkingg i was stuck at 3.4, i just cranked up the voltage more than usual and it worked. not exactly safe, but hey.

and yesterday i got to 1000mhz on my 5870 core.

i dont mean to ramble though, my point is, if you don't really know alot about it, there are other ways to get more performance from your system that are far less complicated.

 

[adamh9]

I hear ya. i got my q6600 at 3.4 and have had it successfully at 3.6 but I get worried about the longevity of my chip so i knocked it back down to 3.4. I was hitting about 62-64 degrees at load at 1.4vcore. What would ya do? I mean you think thats gonna kill the life by to much?

 

[adamh9]

BTW....do you have ddr3 memory?

 

[welshmousepk]

nope, im still on DDR2. theres no big advantage to ddr3 so im not going to bother until i need to upgrade my mobo for another reason.

personally, id push my chip as far as it will go. as long as temps aren't absurd (90 degrees), you dont really need to worry about lifespan. chips are rated at about 25 years, so even if you cut that in half, it will still live far longer than you are likely to have a use for it.

as someone who upgrades each time something better comes along, i really dont worry.

 

[adamh9]

haha yea, I wish I had that luxury. I get a new build about every 2-3 years or so, so I treat every component like it is my child. I see you have the 5870, hows that bad boy?, do you stock cooling on that to OC it?

 

[welshmousepk]

well i dont have a ton of cash, but most of what i earn goes on upgrades or video games.

yeah, the 5870 is a beast. overclcoks well but very hot when overvolted, so i usually play at 900/1300 stock voltage. stock cooler, im looking into an aftermarket, but not sure about something that will cool the VRMs efficiently, so im waiting until more people have tried it out before i jump in.

im also reading up on watercooling. something iv avoided until now, but im running out of ways to improve my rig.
the problem is that i dont know the first thing about the parts on the market and dont want to spend hundreds of dollars on bad stuff.
thinking about buying a thermaltake watercooling kit and adding a second radiator, so i could add my 5870 to the loop. but im not sure if that would give me any real temp improvements.

hard to decide...

 

[adamh9]

I know I hear alot about the watercooling but have not even looked that much into it besides a bit of browsing on newegg. I'm using a zalman 9500a which seems to do the job plus i got 2 exhaust fans above it and behind it which help. But imagin the possibilities with watercooling. I don't even understand the simplest things about it. Do you keep all the tubes running right inside your case? do they extend out of the case? All i know is they are pricey, and i've heard they'll drop your temps pretty significantly, BUT i have heard they cause alot of headaches as well. what about you?

 

[welshmousepk]

yeah, ive done a fair bit of research. its alot simpler than it used to be.

you can get both internal and external solutions. external are better since they can draw the cold air rather than warm case air. and yeah, they are self contained and stay inside the case, excpet for where they might go outside to a radiator.

the main thing for me is that they drop temps enough to allow for higher overclocks.
im sure that if i could get my 5870 into a decent watercooling loop i could get it clocked even higher. right now its temps that are holding me back.

im looking at simply getting a kit, they aren't as good as self made rigs but are easy to install and perform well. but in doing that, im not sure if its worth it. as they dont perform as well as proper loops, i may as well stick to air.

but im gonna ask around and see what info i can find.

 

[adamh9]

oh so i guess you can hook up multiple components to one loop? sounds sorta complicated but like it would pay off. this might be something i'll look into in the future as well. what do you mean by proper loops? on newegg i recall seeing blocks and kits.

 

[welshmousepk]

yeah, you can hook up all sorts, including HDDs and your northbridge.

the pros say that you need to buy the components and make your own loop, because the pre-made kits apparently don't perform so well.
but ive read some fairly good reviews on some, and figure one of those with a secodn rad should perform well enough. at least as a first foray into watercooling. i can always replace all the parts piece by piece some time down the line.

 

[adamh9]

hey thanks for all the help man...good luck with your ventures.

 

[welshmousepk]

no probs

 

[pietpara]

Hi,
loved your conversation on watercooling. I am thinking exactly the same
want to start watercoolling but get a bit lost in the details. It can become quite overwhelming and expensive. So, I am looking for a good starter package. I saw one reviewed somewhere that was supposedly very good (don't remember the name) but was unfortunately not available in Germany.

What I like most about it is the ultra silence you can achieve with it. At least, that's what I believe, although I'm not sure if the radiator (do these have fans or are they pure passive?) or pump can be noisy.

cheers
pietpara

 

[welshmousepk]

piet, yes you need fans on the radiator (at least, if you are overclocking. you may be able to get by without if at stock clocks). pumps can be noisy, but can be near silent.
ive been looking at the thermaltake bigwater 760i. its reviews are largely positive,
and while its no where near as good as a 'real' watercooling rig, it performs well, is easy to install and upgradeable. and you can easily add a second rad to the loop to improve performance.

like i said, im new to it myself, so i still have a lot to learn. but i don't think its a good idea to jump in at the deep end. start with a good kit and you have upgrade potential, and can learn more about the systems as you upgrade. obviously, kits dont perform as well, but seem to be a good entry point to water cooling.