Question Comments about my GPU options ?

[Craig234]

Form info:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: From immediate to later this year

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming (not e-sports type, but an example is Everspace 2)

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY: RX 570, 750w Corsair

OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS: i7-4790k, ASRock Extreme6 MB, 16GB, nzxt pahantom full case

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: (no preferred, News, Amazon usually, US

PARTS PREFERENCES: AMD preferred

OVERCLOCKING: Unlikely SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1440p 34"

I'm considering options. Most games play 'fine'. After my previous better GPU went bad, I put in an older RX 570. But I'm starting to run into issues like with Everspace 2.

Option 1: Do nothing, keep enjoying most games fine, others lower resolution
Option 2: Buy 6950XT for $600 (ASRock). There are also a few brands a little more.
Option 3: Buy 6750XT (I think one is now $310 to $330). 'Just fine' for 1440p gaming, but 6950xt is a bit better.
Option 4: Get new generation GPU when they come out
Option 5: Get a whole new system

Just curious about comments which options seem a lot better than others.

 

[tennis2]

Your monitor is 34"? So 21:9 aspect ratio. 3440 x 1440.

1440p testing/benchmarks are typically 2560x1440, so keep that in mind when looking at FPS numbers.

As far as GPU vs whole system replacement. A 4790K is definitely EOL....BUT you can transfer a new GPU purchase (now) into the new system if you need to delay the complete replacement for budgetary reasons.

 

[GarrettL]

If your psu is more than 5-7 years old and out of warranty it would be wise to replace it before installing a new gpu.

 

[tennis2]

Yeah, do you know the age of the PSU? The general model number should be in big letters on the side of the unit which would/could help us determine quality and/or age.

Ultimately, 750W is enough from a wattage standpoint, but if the unit is original to the build (circa 2014 when the CPU launched) it may be a good idea to replace.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Form info:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: From immediate to later this year

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming (not e-sports type, but an example is Everspace 2)

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY: RX 570, 750w Corsair

Nothing wrong with a Corsair 750W.

OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS: i7-4790k, ASRock Extreme6 MB, 16GB, nzxt pahantom full case

Wow, a Devil's Canyon i7! You might want to upgrade that as well to avoid a bad CPU bottleneck.

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: (no preferred, News, Amazon usually, US

Thanks for this information. Too many people fail to say what country that they're in and that causes problems.

PARTS PREFERENCES: AMD preferred

No problem!

OVERCLOCKING: Unlikely

Yeah, it's kinda worthless these days.

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No

Yeah, I remember when these both died.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1440p 34"

VERY NICE!

I'm considering options. Most games play 'fine'. After my previous better GPU went bad, I put in an older RX 570. But I'm starting to run into issues like with Everspace 2.

Yep, that'll happen.

Option 1: Do nothing, keep enjoying most games fine, others lower resolution

If you were satisfied with this option, we wouldn't be talking right now.

Option 2: Buy 6950XT for $600 (ASRock). There are also a few brands a little more.

I always say to get the cheapest model available because the performance differences between them are imperceptible. Get the ASRock if it's the cheapest.

Option 3: Buy 6750XT (I think one is now $310 to $330). 'Just fine' for 1440p gaming, but 6950xt is a bit better.

Actually the RX 6950 XT is FAR better than the RX 6750 XT. We're talking a whopping 55% faster according to TechPowerUp. I don't see the RX 6750 XT for less than $370. Based on this, I would say that the RX 6950 XT is a better value overall because even though it's 62% more expensive, it's 55% faster and has 33% more VRAM.

If the RX 6950 XT is a tad expensive, I would suggest the RX 6800 XT at $520 instead. The value is just as good because the RX 6950 XT is 16% faster and 15% more expensive. Both cards have the same 16GB of GDDR6. I personally have an RX 6800 XT and I absolutely love it. It's just an incredible card.

Option 4: Get new generation GPU when they come out

From what I've seen, the value of the new Radeons is just garbage. If I were you, I'd get an RX 6000-card while I still could. They're the best value on the market at the moment, period.

Option 5: Get a whole new system

There is wisdom in this option because no matter what you get, you're going to be badly bottlenecked by your Devil's Canyon i7 and your DDR3 RAM. You don't need a whole new system though, just a reasonable platform upgrade (CPU/Motherboard/RAM).

You can get this for less than $400:

Absolute Lowest Price:
CPU: AMD R5-7600 - $218
Motherboard: MSI Pro A620M-E - $85
RAM: 32GB Team Elite DDR5-4800 CL40 - $69
Total: $372 (includes CPU cooler)

Or just over $400:

What I would get if I were you:
CPU: AMD R5-7600 - $218
Motherboard: ASRock B650M-HDV/M.2 - $120
RAM: 32GB Team Vulcan DDR5-6000 CL38 - $81
Total: $419 (includes CPU cooler)

Your whole experience would change from this upgrade regardless of which configuration you choose.

Just curious about comments which options seem a lot better than others.

You came to the right place for that!

 

[tennis2]

The AMD stock cooler(s) are better than Intel's, but the Thermalright Assassin King 120 SE ARGB = $22 is days better than the AMD stock cooler.


Probably going to want an M.2 SSD if you're going with a new build. Get a 1-2TB one so you don't have to worry about space. A lot of games are >100GB each these days.

 

[Craig234]

Yeah, do you know the age of the PSU? The general model number should be in big letters on the side

It's HX750i, not sure how old but maybe 5 or 6 years?

 

[Craig234]

Thanks for the comments.

- Partial vs. full upgrade: 'Partial' is CPU/MB/CPU/RAM, but also PSU, so the rest is case and storage?
Might as well replace storage also from several year old drives, and get a case to leave the old system.

- 32GB was recommended, I thought there's no real benefit over 16GB?

- I saw the message next gen not good value, and the recommended cooler

- If new system storage plan is M.2 2TB Samsun 980 Pro (already bought) and ~16TB HD.

 

[tennis2]

It's HX750i, not sure how old but maybe 5 or 6 years?

That's a nice PSU. I wouldn't be concerned about letting it live out at least its 10 year warranty period. Has plenty of wattage, even with some capacitor ageing.

 

[Avro Arrow]

The AMD stock cooler(s) are better than Intel's, but the Thermalright Assassin King 120 SE ARGB = $22 is days better than the AMD stock cooler.

Sure, but it's a case of "good" vs. "good enough". I've used AMD stock coolers since I bought my Phenom II X4 940 back in 2007. The CPUs that I've used AMD stock coolers on are as follows:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940
Cooler: AMD AM2/AM2+ "Wraith before it was called Wraith".

The AM2 cooler is on the left. The AM3 cooler is on the right and it worked but it sounds like a jet engine so I continued to use the AM2 cooler on my Phenom II X4 964 and FX-8350. All three of those CPUs are 125W so these coolers are well-made and still work to this day. When I got my R7-1700, I used the enclosed Wraith Spire RGB. When I got my R5-3600X, I got a Wraith Spire non-RGB. My stepfather traded his Wraith Prism (that he got with his R9-3600X) to me for it because he hates RGB. The Wraith Spire works perfectly fine on his R9-3600X and the Wraith Prism works perfectly fine on my R7-5800X3D.

I once got a Zalman AIO (made by Asetek) and tried it on my FX-8350 because NCIX had it for some stupidly-low price (like $35-$40CAD). It managed a difference of maybe 7°C. Then Newegg had some stupidly-low price on the Cooler Master Hyper 212 (like $20CAD) so I got that to try it out as well since the Cooler Master Hyper is a legendary cooler. It managed a difference of 5°C which is pretty amazing since the AIO was only 2°C cooler. I ended up just leaving the Hyper 212 in my rig. In hindsight however, I don't remember exactly what the temperature was with the stock cooler but I do know that the FX-8350 never managed to get within 10°C of the spec limit even when running Passmark or 3DMark.

That taught me two things:
1.) The biggest waste of money today is CPU liquid-cooling (unless you have something ridiculous like a 13th-gen i7 or i9).
2.) If the CPU comes with a cooler, unless you already have something that you like better (for whatever reason), just use it and don't worry about it.

Probably going to want an M.2 SSD if you're going with a new build. Get a 1-2TB one so you don't have to worry about space. A lot of games are >100GB each these days.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Avro Arrow]

It's HX750i, not sure how old but maybe 5 or 6 years?

Oh you have nothing to worry about. High-end PSUs like that can be almost immortal. Hell, the backup PSU to my EVGA 120-G2-1000-XR is an old OCZ Z1000M from 2011.

That OCZ PSU ran a makeshift mining rig that I threw together to try and mine back as much money towards what I paid for said RX 6800 XT as I could. Here's what was in the rig:
CPU: FX-8350 - 125W
MOBO: Gigabyte 990FX Ultra-Durable
GPU1: XFX RX 5700 XT - 225W (fans set to a constant 100%)
GPU2: OG ATi RX 6800 XT - 300W(fans set to a constant 100%)
HDD: 1TB WD Caviar Blue
MISC: 6x120mm case fans

That ran 24/7 for six months without so much as a hiccup from the OCZ Z1000M, a PSU that ran twin HD 4870s, twin HD 7970s and then twin R9 Furies in my rig over the years and it's only 80+Gold-Certified. I actually bought my EVGA 120-G2-1000-XR because I was starting to worry that the Z1000M was getting long in the tooth. It turned out that I needn't have worried but it's nice to have a 1kW 80+Gold-Certified PSU backed up with another 1kW 80+Gold-Certfied PSU.

Your HX750i is 80+Platinum-Certified and is seven years younger than my Z1000M so you have nothing to worry about in that respect. You've got a single +12V rail rated at 62.5A which is more than enough for what you need.

Tom's Hardware did a very positive review of that PSU. You can click here to read it.

 

[tennis2]

Sure, but it's a case of "good" vs. "good enough". I've used AMD stock coolers since I bought my Phenom II X4 940 back in 2007. The CPUs that I've used AMD stock coolers on are as follows:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940
Cooler: AMD AM2/AM2+ "Wraith before it was called Wraith".

The AM2 cooler is on the left. The AM3 cooler is on the right and it worked but it sounds like a jet engine so I continued to use the AM2 cooler on my Phenom II X4 964 and FX-8350. All three of those CPUs are 125W so these coolers are well-made and still work to this day. When I got my R7-1700, I used the enclosed Wraith Spire RGB. When I got my R5-3600X, I got a Wraith Spire non-RGB. My stepfather traded his Wraith Prism (that he got with his R9-3600X) to me for it because he hates RGB. The Wraith Spire works perfectly fine on his R9-3600X and the Wraith Prism works perfectly fine on my R7-5800X3D.

I once got a Zalman AIO (made by Asetek) and tried it on my FX-8350 because NCIX had it for some stupidly-low price (like $35-$40CAD). It managed a difference of maybe 7°C. Then Newegg had some stupidly-low price on the Cooler Master Hyper 212 (like $20CAD) so I got that to try it out as well since the Cooler Master Hyper is a legendary cooler. It managed a difference of 5°C which is pretty amazing since the AIO was only 2°C cooler. I ended up just leaving the Hyper 212 in my rig. In hindsight however, I don't remember exactly what the temperature was with the stock cooler but I do know that the FX-8350 never managed to get within 10°C of the spec limit even when running Passmark or 3DMark.

That taught me two things:
1.) The biggest waste of money today is CPU liquid-cooling (unless you have something ridiculous like a 13th-gen i7 or i9).
2.) If the CPU comes with a cooler, unless you already have something that you like better (for whatever reason), just use it and don't worry about it.

I couldn't agree more.

I have a Ryzen 5600G that I used with the stock AM4 cooler while I was waiting on my Corsair H55 AIO AM4 bracket to arrive. Yes, it is a matter of "good enough", but the AM4 stock cooler is not quiet enough for my liking.

That being said. The AMD cooler comes with the CPU for free. No harm in trying that first. If you're happy with it, great. If not, no harm, just get an aftermarket cooler.

The $22 tower cooler I linked is arguably the best bang-for-your buck cooler out there. And it's gonna trounce the AMD stock cooler on temps and noise.

I'm absolutely NOT the type of person that just blindly prescribes an AIO to everything, and I'd much rather use a heatpipe cooler when able.
The biggest thing AIOs have going for them (outside of the Intel i7/i9 levels of power draw where you just can't get enough surface area unless you go with a rad) is water volume IMO. This gives them a "heat soak" advantage over heatpipe coolers. Raw cooling performance....yeah very little benefit until you get into 280mm+ rads. But that added heat soak duration can help smooth out fan speed fluctuations during uneven loading scenarios...Even that could be argued a moot point from the "good enough" crowd.

A single-stack 120mm tower cooler will handle a R5-7600 just fine (at stock it draws <100W). Single stack 140mm tower cooler would be "better" (probably just quieter since temps aren't going to be an issue with either), but probably not worth double the $$. The next logical step would be something like this dual-stack 120mm tower for $31

 

[Avro Arrow]

I have a Ryzen 5600G that I used with the stock AM4 cooler while I was waiting on my Corsair H55 AIO AM4 bracket to arrive. Yes, it is a matter of "good enough", but the AM4 stock cooler is not that quiet.

Ah yes, I see the problem. You're right, the Wraith Stealth (which I think is what's included with the 5600G) is quite weak and I believe that it was a mistake for AMD to include it with an APU that has both CPU and GPU combined. If you were given a Wraith Spire (which is what should have been included), you wouldn't have that problem. Yes, I agree with you there, for an APU, the Wraith Stealth would be far too noisy because it's too small.

The $22 tower cooler is arguably the best bang-for-your buck cooler out there. And it's gonna trounce the AMD stock cooler on temps and noise.

It would trounce a Wraith Stealth on an APU, for sure. I don't think that it would trounce a Wraith Spire or a Wraith Prism though.

The thing is, you had a bad experience with the Wraith Stealth and I don't blame you one bit for feeling that way. I would've thought the same thing but you have to take into account that you were also in a "worst-case" scenario for the Wraith Stealth.

You see, the R5-5600G uses more power and produces more heat than most 6-core CPUs because of the integrated Vega GPU. In your case, yeah, the Wraith Stealth was only barely adequate, there's no question about that. However, the R5-7600 is a completely different animal. I checked the Power Consumption numbers for both on TechPowerUp and here's what I found:

Power Consumption (Remember that Watts = Heat):

R5-5600G:
At Idle - 52W
Single-Threaded - 69W
Multi-Threaded - 132W

R5-7600:
At Idle - Doesn't say
Single-Threaded - 18W
Multi-Threaded - 78W

As you can see, the R5-5600G never truly goes into a low-power state because it draws 52W even at idle. That forces the Wraith Stealth to be constantly spinning at a good clip and things only get worse as the R5-5600G ramps-up.

However, as I said, the R5-7600 is a completely different animal. Compared to the R5-7600, the R5-5600G consumes almost 4x as much power in single-threaded workloads and almost double the power in multi-threaded workloads. Hell, just sitting at idle, the R5-5600G consumes almost triple what the R5-7600 does in single-threaded workloads. They're not even close when it comes to power consumption.

I agree that the Wraith Stealth was completely insufficient for the R5-5600G but it is more than enough for the R5-7600. If we average out the single and multi-threaded numbers, the R5-5600G averages 100.5W while the R5-7600 averages 48W, less than half of what the R5-5600G averages and even less than what the R5-5600G draws at idle. There's no question that the Wraith Spire should have been included with the R5-5600G, not the Wraith Stealth.

That doesn't mean the Wraith Stealth is a bad cooler, it just means that AMD was stupid to include it with an APU that could easily overwhelm it. I'm sure they did it for cost purposes but putting a cooler that is only barely sufficient only makes people (like you) believe (and quite rightly) that AMD coolers aren't very good. It also doesn't save you much money because you have to go and spend $20 on a cooler that, if AMD had included a Wraith Spire instead (like they should have), wouldn't have been necessary.

I knew what the numbers were for the R5-7600 long ago (because I always do research before I make a recommendation). I didn't know what the numbers were on the R5-5600G but I knew that desktop APUs, especially with Vega IGPs used a good deal more juice than CPUs alone or CPUs with tiny RDNA2 IGPs (like the R5-7600).

I'm absolutely NOT the type of person that just blindly prescribes an AIO to everything, and I'd much rather use a heatpipe cooler when able.

I never meant to imply otherwise, I just didn't have the context of where you were coming from. Now that I do, I completely understand you point of view and I do not doubt the experience that you had. For your situation, getting an aftermarket cooler was the way to go. I agree with you 100%!

The biggest thing AIOs have going for them (outside of the Intel i7/i9 levels of power draw where you just can't get enough surface area unless you go with a rad) is water volume IMO. This gives them a "heat soak" advantage over heatpipe coolers. Raw cooling performance....yeah very little benefit until you get into 280mm+ rads. But that added heat soak duration can help smooth out fan speed fluctuations. Even that could be argued a moot point.
A single-stack 120mm tower cooler will handle a R5-7600 just fine. Single stack 140mm tower cooler would be "better" (probably just quieter since temps aren't going to be an issue with either), but probably not worth double the $$. The next logical step would be something like this dual-stack 120mm tower for $31

Yeah but, as I demonstrated already, the R5-7600 literally sips power and has absolutely no need for an AIO. The stock Wraith Stealth cooler would be able to handle it quite easily without turning into a leaf blower like it did with your R5-5600G.

 

[tennis2]

@Avro Arrow Your linked power consumption numbers for the 5600G are whole system, while the 7600 is CPU-only. IRL, the 5600G and 7600 are both 65W TDP chips and draw basically the same amount of power. I'm also using a dGPU and have the IGP disabled in BIOS.

Don't really feel the need to argue Wraith stealth/spire/prism since you don't get to choose what cooler you get in the box. AMD makes those decisions.

 

[tennis2]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($217.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin King SE ARGB 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($21.39 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($179.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory ($70.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Black SN770 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: ASRock Phantom Gaming OC Radeon RX 6950 XT 16 GB Video Card ($599.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Pop Mini Air MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1299.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-28 14:19 EDT-0400

I think a case could be made for the RTX4070 @ $600 even though the 6950XT is 20% faster. RTX4070 has better ray tracing performance (if that matters to you) and 175W less power draw.

 

[Avro Arrow]

@Avro Arrow Your linked power consumption numbers for the 5600G are whole system, while the 7600 is CPU-only.

It is? Oh jeez. I'm sorry, I must have read it wrong. I didn't expect them to completely change their methodology in only one generation. That's on me though, I should have looked closer.

IRL, the 5600G and 7600 are both 65W TDP chips and draw basically the same amount of power. I'm also using a dGPU and have the IGP disabled in BIOS.

Don't really feel the need to argue Wraith stealth/spire/prism since you don't get to choose what cooler you get in the box. AMD makes those decisions.

No, I didn't feel the need to argue at all. I was just trying to be reassuring. If it seemed like I was arguing, I do apologise because it wasn't my intent. I stand corrected and it was my fault for not looking more closely at TechPowerUp's methodology.

To be honest, I was pretty puzzled by the 52W idle but I'm at work and I didn't really have the opportunity to read it more thoroughly. You see, 99 times out of 100, my method would've been accurate so I was acting in earnest, not out of malice.

At the end of the day, only the OP will be able to say if it's sufficient or not. If it is, great, but if it isn't, you definitely had the best option with that $20 cooler. There's no doubt about it.

 

[Craig234]

Aliexpress is showing an XFX 6950XT for $500, I'm wondering if that's a legitimate way below others price. Is it ok to link?

 

[GarrettL]

AMD has been dropping the pricies on the 6000 series lately.

 

[Craig234]

Reading it more, ships from China, has some weird thing about don't order it directly, nah. Wait for a sale.

 

[Craig234]

I realized I also want a very quiet card, and sapphire seems to be reviewed as that. But the sapphire 6950 xt is usually going for over $1200, at least $800. Hm.

 

[Craig234]

What do you think of an ASRock 6950 XT? It might be available for $600. Comments I saw are that it's good quality, but some concern about the noise.

 

[Craig234]

No opinions, darn. It was listed in a post above, but no comments especially on noise level.