comp-inspired NPP quibbles

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

None of these complaints is serious.


As mentioned in other threads, excellent slings and lanterns are too
rare. I don't know if one can change things cleanly so that for
example extra might has less rarity for slings than for xbows, but
maybe a hack is in order.

Throwing weapons are currently a waste. It simply isn't worth a slot
to carry one. If the quiver gets implemented, it should include
throwing weapons, or else they just never get used. Currently, the
main point of throwing weapons is that they are great for melee,
having less weight than other weapons of comparable dice. This seems
backwards. Make them unwieldable?

Any store service should also be available in the dungeon. In
particular, there ought to be scrolls of fireproof spellbook. IMO,
there also ought to be scrolls of acidproofing etc, and they should be
usable on items other than spellbooks, though perhaps that is
unbalancing for staves of healing. I would like to be able to
protect my swap weapons.

Gloves of combat shouldn't aggravate. Why would anyone prefer them
to Cambeleg? The point should be to allow for different kits. IMO
they should also have maximum plusses significantly above (+8,+8)
so that there is a chance you would prefer them. Perhaps activate
for Berserk? Something.

Ammo of wounding is pointless currently. Make the maximum damage plus
around +40 and it would start to get interesting. It is just not
worth an extra slot to carry wounding ammo that does 10 points more
than other ammo. I don't think having a quiver would change my
opinion on this. I'd prefer to use my 100 pieces of ammo as different
brands/slays rather than waste any on current "of wounding".

Morgoth should be able to figure out how to get out of a vault. I was
particularly annoyed that I saved my scrolls of Create Monster Trap
all game, went down to level 100 and set things up, and Morgoth never
found me. He was stuck in a greater vault, probably thanks to that
ever annoying autoscum. I couldn't get to the entrance in time to let
him out, due to my own idiocy. In any case, I think he should be able
to find his way out.

And finally, the almost serious complaint. One should be able to set
traps on squares containing items. I found that I was using Mass
Identify offensively to squelch-clear squares so that I could set
traps. This means that squelching becomes important tactically,
rather than just a convenience. I think that is a mistake.


Let me reiterate that none of these is a big deal. These are just
a few things that occured to me during the comp. I am curious if
there is any strong disagreement with any of these.


Eddie

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie grove

[makes some good suggestions]

I have one suggestion about Gloves of Combat. Perhaps there should be
some penalty, but not all out aggravation.

How about a flag that reduces some stat, so GoCombat +2 would be

STR | CON | -STEALTH

stealth is reduced by 2.

This kind of thing would make equipment selection much trickier...


As for lanterns and slings, I already hacked NPP to have both more
slings and more shot. Hacking for more lanterns is next.

I'm not sold on throwing weapons even if they came in stacks. They are
much heavier than ammo, and don't do any more damage when thrown. I
had only one character ever that carried one: a well-balanced dagger of
*Slay Demon*, capable of ~300 damage. After I got a better bow, I
stopped carrying even that. I've also tried carrying a stack of
daggers as a starting priest instead of an x2 projectile weapon. It's
slightly more effective in combat, but too expensive and too heavy to
be worth it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> None of these complaints is serious.
>
>
> As mentioned in other threads, excellent slings and lanterns are too
> rare. I don't know if one can change things cleanly so that for
> example extra might has less rarity for slings than for xbows, but
> maybe a hack is in order.
>
> Throwing weapons are currently a waste. It simply isn't worth a slot
> to carry one. If the quiver gets implemented, it should include
> throwing weapons, or else they just never get used. Currently, the
> main point of throwing weapons is that they are great for melee,
> having less weight than other weapons of comparable dice. This seems
> backwards. Make them unwieldable?

There should be throwing items that are counted as ammo (stacks of them,
breakable, but rarely) like throwing stars/knives. Then you might
actually use them. Maybe also magic potions that can be used as grenades
(flasks of oil are something like this, but much more damage).

> Gloves of combat shouldn't aggravate. Why would anyone prefer them
> to Cambeleg?

IIRC original combat gauntlets gave blows too. That made them much too
powerful without aggravation and even with it.

> The point should be to allow for different kits. IMO
> they should also have maximum plusses significantly above (+8,+8)
> so that there is a chance you would prefer them. Perhaps activate
> for Berserk? Something.

Activate for aggravation? In 4GAI that can actually be useful as long as
it doesn't haste monsters. In 4GAI that causes group monsters to come
after you and not stay out of sight. It could also cause spellcasters to
"lose control" and drop their spellcasting rate. That way aggravation
would no longer be pure penalty and become a item that defines your
playing style.

> Ammo of wounding is pointless currently.
<snip>
> opinion on this. I'd prefer to use my 100 pieces of ammo as different
> brands/slays rather than waste any on current "of wounding".

Agreed fully. I mostly destroy any ammo that is not

a) plain non-ego
b) slay evil
c) branded

All other types are pretty much useless. Especially slaying.

> And finally, the almost serious complaint. One should be able to set
> traps on squares containing items. I found that I was using Mass
> Identify offensively to squelch-clear squares so that I could set
> traps. This means that squelching becomes important tactically,
> rather than just a convenience. I think that is a mistake.

Squelch anyway should not destroy items even if they get identified
unless you walk over them. Not even with mass-ID.

I agree that monster traps should be able to be created under pile of items.

Timo Pietilä

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:

> Eddie Grove wrote:

>> Gloves of combat shouldn't aggravate. Why would anyone prefer them
>> to Cambeleg?

> Activate for aggravation? In 4GAI that can actually be useful as long
> as it doesn't haste monsters. In 4GAI that causes group monsters to
> come after you and not stay out of sight. It could also cause

You are the second person to write this recently. Why isn't it true
for me? I wore combat gloves, but hounds remained just as annoying.
They did not seem to come after me any more at all.

> Agreed fully. I mostly destroy any ammo that is not
>
> a) plain non-ego
> b) slay evil
> c) branded
>
> All other types are pretty much useless. Especially slaying.

This was different for me in the comp. I used slay dragon for
Ancalagon, and slay giant for Kronos and slay demon for Pazazu. I
never had slay animal when I saw the Lernaean Hydra, but I would have
liked to kill it.

In retrospect, you are right. I would have done better to toss the
slaying ammo and use the slots to carry items home to sell.

This reminds me of one more quibble. The first time I tried to kill
Ancalagon, his acid aura destroyed all the bolts I fired. The second
time, we were in a dark corridor and the bolts were unharmed. That
seems inconsistent. In addition, I think that slay dragon ammo should
ignore fire and acid since it is designed to fight wyrms.


Eddie

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
>>Eddie Grove wrote:
>
>>>Gloves of combat shouldn't aggravate. Why would anyone prefer them
>>>to Cambeleg?
>
>>Activate for aggravation? In 4GAI that can actually be useful as long
>>as it doesn't haste monsters. In 4GAI that causes group monsters to
>>come after you and not stay out of sight. It could also cause
>
> You are the second person to write this recently. Why isn't it true
> for me? I wore combat gloves, but hounds remained just as annoying.
> They did not seem to come after me any more at all.

Maybe it is just when it is done as spell. I don't use aggravating items
myself so I don't have experience about this, but people has told me
that 4GAI does this. Maybe NPP 4GAI doesn't do this.

Timo Pietilä

 

[nick]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> Any store service should also be available in the dungeon. In
> particular, there ought to be scrolls of fireproof spellbook. IMO,
> there also ought to be scrolls of acidproofing etc, and they should
be
> usable on items other than spellbooks, though perhaps that is
> unbalancing for staves of healing. I would like to be able to
> protect my swap weapons.

Yes yes yes. It's not just weapons; lightningproof swap rings (like
RPois) and fireproof emergency scrolls (like *Destruction*) are some
others that spring to mind.

> Ammo of wounding is pointless currently.

Except for the sale price

> And finally, the almost serious complaint. One should be able to set
> traps on squares containing items. I found that I was using Mass
> Identify offensively to squelch-clear squares so that I could set
> traps. This means that squelching becomes important tactically,
> rather than just a convenience. I think that is a mistake.

Agreed. Maybe ^O could set a trap if the square is free, and otherwise
shuffle all the stuff off it to adjoining grids. This would be quicker
than Mass Identify + squelch, and also seems kind of reasonable - if
the floor's clear, you can set a trap; if not, you need to clear a
space first.

Nick.