Competition makes prices go ... up? *boggle about MMORPG f..

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
prices...
Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
monthly fee?
Only time will tell
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

<wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)

Just to point out, you got this wrong.

EQ started out at $9.89 a month, and didn't raise their monthly fee until
Luclin came out two and a half years after the initial release.

C
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month

I believe (and stated) that it was underpriced at the time.

What's happened is that the franchises have discovered that they
are valued more than they initially predicted.

Such things should be no surprise. The market wasn't the least
bit understood when UO hit.

C//
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote in news:1109099620.734762.285410
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
> monthly fee?
> Only time will tell


All good points. I would have said that the growing crowds is driving up
the number of servers needed to make a decent offering but UO has fallen
far in its population yet not dropped its prices.

Luckily, UO broke out into the open source world. There are now hundreds of
free servers with almost as many variations (standard UO, DnD, totally
oriental, PvM, PvP, PKillers, or uniquely designed worlds). Im actually
quite enjoying playing UO again on Shazzy's Shard with no crowds at all. :)

Gandalf Parker
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 2005-02-22, wolfing1@yahoo.com <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?

Salaries go up 2-5% a year for "increase in cost of living."
Older MMOs just depreciate their value by not increasing
subscription fees.

> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
> prices...

Not at all. The cost stays mostly the same because you wind up
doing more with newer hardware.

> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
> monthly fee?
> Only time will tell

They will for new MMOs and new games by a buck or two every
year.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

wolfing1@yahoo.com once tried to test me with:

> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
> prices...
> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
> monthly fee?
> Only time will tell

They are going to charge as much as people are willing to pay. Right now
WoW is hot, hot, hot. It's $15+tax which is about $16 a month if you just
go month-to-month. THey charge a buck less a month if you buy 6-months at a
time or two-bucks less a month if you buy a year at a time.

Anarchy Online, however, is free to play for a whole year. Sure, it's an
older game, but competition has driven them to actually let people play on
their servers for free (with the basic game) in the hopes of addicting
someone and getting them to upgrade to a paying account (with the expansion
packs).

I'm sure some of the lesser-known MMOGs are lowering prices or at least
keeping them at their lower price they started with.

So there is competition, but it's expensive to maintain servers and keep
staff on for fixing problems and handling situations. So you're not going
to see a radical drop in the base price, it's just going to keep getting
more expensive, not cheaper.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 22 Feb 2005 11:13:40 -0800, wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:

>In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month

The simple fact is that UO was underpriced. Running a MMORPG isn't
cheap - the servers and bandwidth costs are a fortune. The bigger
cost, though, is customer service, something that customers are
demanding more and better of.

When UO first came into existance, they essentially relied upon a
volunteer GM/seer force with just a couple of paid employees to handle
the big problems. That simply didn't work out - giving that sort of
power into the hands of volunteers led to problem after problem after
problem. OSI put major limits on their volunteer's power, activities
and playtime in order to crack down on the corruption and cheating,
and that wound up leading to a lawsuit because OSI was essentially
using the volunteers as unpaid employees at that point. Eventually,
the entire volunteer system was scrapped, and OSI had to hire large
numbers of GMs to replace them.

When EQ launched, it was simply impossible to get a GM. You quite
literally had to put in a help page and sit and read a book for 6+
hours before someone would help you. They got away with it then, but
that simply doesn't work anymore. The support staff required for a
MMORPG has drastically risen, and so have the costs associated with
support. That's one of the biggest reasons for the increased prices.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

When UO came out, no one knew where the best price was. A lot of
people at Origin stated later they priced it too low -- they didn't
know what the market would bear and lowballed it. Other games are
charging more, both because they cost more to develop and run, and
because they're learning the market will bear more than 10
dollars/customer. 15/month seems to be the current maximum -- nothing
is coming out which charges more than that. It wouldn't surprise me if
the next hot license -- such as Middle Earth -- DOES charge more.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

<wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
> prices...
> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
> monthly fee?
> Only time will tell

Makes me remember playing Gemstone on GEnie when it was $6 an hour....
>
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

In article
<slrnd1n263.29m4.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
shadows@whitefang.com says...
> On 2005-02-22, wolfing1@yahoo.com <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
> > are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
>
> Salaries go up 2-5% a year for "increase in cost of living."
> Older MMOs just depreciate their value by not increasing
> subscription fees.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
puts the inflation from 1997 to 2003 for 10usd to about
$12, inflation does not explain the increase in monthly
fees, although it does explain some of the rise.

- Factory
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

Cheers!
David...
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

David Carson <david@eldergothSPAMTRAP.com> once tried to test me with:

> wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
>> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
>> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
>> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
>> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
>> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
>> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

ROFL.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 23 Feb 2005 00:24:45 GMT, Knight37 wrote:

> They are going to charge as much as people are willing to pay. Right now
> WoW is hot, hot, hot. It's $15+tax which is about $16 a month if you just
> go month-to-month. THey charge a buck less a month if you buy 6-months at a
> time or two-bucks less a month if you buy a year at a time.

Even Sigil has a blurb in their FAQ about MMOG pricing. See section 1.5.4:
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php
--
RJB
2/23/2005 9:13:43 AM

When I get real bored, I like to drive down town and get a great parking
spot, then sit in my car and count how many people ask me if I'm leaving.
--Steven Wright
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

<wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
> prices...
> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
> monthly fee?
> Only time will tell
>

I wonder how much more companys can charge before ppl stop paying. $15 is
pretty much the maximum for but it also depends on how good the MMORPG is.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

<wolfing1@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)

Btw EQ was 9.95$/month and even cheaper for 3 months or 12 months subs.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
> puts the inflation from 1997 to 2003 for 10usd to about
> $12, inflation does not explain the increase in monthly
> fees, although it does explain some of the rise.
>

you forget, all the equipment is a lot cheaper today (servers, ram, HD)
even T1 or T3 are cheapers now...
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake "Slice" <orlac@sree.org>, Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:28:32 GMT, Anno
Domini:

>
><wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
>> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
>> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
>> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
>> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
>> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
>> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
>> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
>> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
>> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
>> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
>> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
>> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
>> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
>> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
>> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
>> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
>> prices...
>> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
>> monthly fee?
>> Only time will tell
>
>Makes me remember playing Gemstone on GEnie when it was $6 an hour....

Was there a free blowjob with that? :-/

--
No matter how many times you save the world, it always manages to get back in jeopardy again.
Sometimes I just want it to stay saved! You know, for a little bit?
I feel like the maid; "I just cleaned up this mess! Can we keep it clean for... for ten minutes!"

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:28:32 GMT, "Slice" <orlac@sree.org>
wrotC😀RIVE_E

>
>Makes me remember playing Gemstone on GEnie when it was $6 an hour....
>>
>

Try Kesmai on CI$ at 12.50/hour.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:

> Thus spake "Slice" <orlac@sree.org>, Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:28:32 GMT, Anno
> Domini:
>
>>
>><wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>>> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
>>> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to get
>>> their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
>>> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
>>> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
>>> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
>>> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
>>> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
>>> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
>>> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
>>> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
>>> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
>>> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
>>> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
>>> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
>>> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if it's
>>> all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to increase
>>> prices...
>>> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a lower
>>> monthly fee?
>>> Only time will tell
>>
>>Makes me remember playing Gemstone on GEnie when it was $6 an hour....
>
> Was there a free blowjob with that? :-/

You can get blowjobs for $6 an hour? Where?


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"duh" <NNOOSSPPAAMM@nospam.com> once tried to test me with:

>
><wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1109099620.734762.285410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> In the beginning, there was UO, it was the only one, it had the
>> monopoly, and its cost was ... $10/month
>> Then came EQ, the first 3d MMORPG, competing with UO and trying to
>> get their players by costing... $12/month (boggle process starts)
>> Then came DAoC, Anarchy Online all costing about $12-$13/month
>> Last year we had lots of new games coming, fierce competition which
>> should drive prices down right?... Wrong, City of Heroes: $15/month,
>> WoW $15/month, EQ2 $15/month, Matrix Online $15/month, etc. etc. etc.
>> With the only exception that I can think of which is Guild Wars, why
>> are prices going up with increased competition instead of down?
>> Sure it costs more now to make a game, but also the market is much
>> bigger for MMORPGs than it was 10 years ago.
>> Or is it that much more expensive now? Price of equipment (routers,
>> servers, even price of bandwidth) has gone down dramatically while
>> increasing efficiency, so not sure how really more expensive these
>> games are compared to the first ones (when they had to pretty much
>> build the whole framework and work with old equipment), wonder if
>> it's all just the companies saying so we believe their reason to
>> increase prices...
>> Will prices keep going up? Or will one good game come out with a
>> lower monthly fee?
>> Only time will tell
>>
>
> I wonder how much more companys can charge before ppl stop paying. $15
> is pretty much the maximum for but it also depends on how good the
> MMORPG is.

I probably shouldn't say this, but if WoW had almost no bugs and zero lag
and zero server problems, I'd pay at least $20/month for it. Especially if
that money meant more custom content updates periodically.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
>
> I probably shouldn't say this, but if WoW had almost no bugs and zero lag
> and zero server problems, I'd pay at least $20/month for it. Especially if
> that money meant more custom content updates periodically.

And here is part of the problem ... the lowest common denominator (i.e.
kids living in their parent's basements with a $5/week allowance) is a
very different audience than the discerning 30+ adult with means. Kids
like Jello. I like marsalla. I don't eat in the restaurants preferred by
kids for this reason.

In today's economy most companies (not just games) are focussing on
getting the most revenue rather than creating the best product and that
usually comes from the LCD. Those who would gladly pay for a better
product are fewer and farther between. As long as there are 50,000
weenies wanting cheap and acceptable the 500 able to afford and
preferring higher quality will be disappointed.

If *I* owned a game development company I would create an elite gaming
division and a generic one. The generic release would operate just like
WoW and EQ and such. The elite one would cost more, be exclusive (weed
out the leet dudes), and provide better quality overall.

Anyone wanna invest? 😉


- Sheldon, the masses do not represent my tastes
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>In today's economy most companies (not just games) are focussing on
>getting the most revenue rather than creating the best product and that
>usually comes from the LCD. Those who would gladly pay for a better
>product are fewer and farther between.

Hey, it's not like the idea hasn't been floated. They just don't /listen/.

C//
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Courageous <dontwant@spam.com> once tried to test me with:

>
>>In today's economy most companies (not just games) are focussing on
>>getting the most revenue rather than creating the best product and
>>that usually comes from the LCD. Those who would gladly pay for a
>>better product are fewer and farther between.
>
> Hey, it's not like the idea hasn't been floated. They just don't
> /listen/.

SOE tried that. They have the $20/month (higher?) EQ servers. I don't think
they were such a great hit.


--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>SOE tried that. They have the $20/month (higher?) EQ servers. I don't think
>they were such a great hit.

Demand went down by more than 50%? (I'm assuming $10->$20 servers).

I'm surprised. It's usually easy enough, with a bet of marketing,
to convince those who have money to believe that something that
costs more is worth more. Of course, there needs to be something
objective behind it: for example a 50% occupancy cap or some such.

If it were my business, I might be tempted to put some premium
content there, too. Like gamma installation of all new content
or some such.

C//
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Courageous <dontwant@spam.com> once tried to test me with:

>
>>SOE tried that. They have the $20/month (higher?) EQ servers. I don't
>>think they were such a great hit.
>
> Demand went down by more than 50%? (I'm assuming $10->$20 servers).
>
> I'm surprised. It's usually easy enough, with a bet of marketing,
> to convince those who have money to believe that something that
> costs more is worth more. Of course, there needs to be something
> objective behind it: for example a 50% occupancy cap or some such.
>
> If it were my business, I might be tempted to put some premium
> content there, too. Like gamma installation of all new content
> or some such.

Actually I just checked their web site. It's $40 per month.

But you do get an all-access pass which means you can play EQ, EQOA (PS2),
EQ2, Planetside, and Star Wars Galaxies, plus some other non MMO games for
that price.

An all-access pass without the EQ "Legends" service costs $22/month.

Here's something that seems downright cheese to me.

If you just subscribe to EQ2 you get 4 character slots, but if you do the
Station Access pass you get 8. COUNT'EM! EIGHT SLOTS!! WOot!

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
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