Question Intermittent boot failure issue ?

[Marty Poo]

I have built a PC with the following:
MSI MAG Z790 TOMOHAWK DDR 5 WIFI MOTHERBOARD
Intel I7 13700k CPU
2 X 16 GB DDR 5 RAM
ASUS GEFORCE RTX 470 GPU
700W PSU

Initially the computer would not boot with the RAM in A2 & B2 slots. I had to remove the RAM from the B2 slot and then Boot the computer and then update the BIOS. The PC then booted up both both RAMS fitted. Since then sometimes the computer will boot, other times it will not and I have to remove the RAM from the B2 slot to get it to boot.
I have only one 8 PIN CPU Power cable connected to the motherboard, Do I need to connect the 2nd CPU Power cable, could this be my problem or could it be that the 700W PSU is not powerful enough for this setup ?
Both RAMS work in the A2 slot and I have completely stripped and rebuilt the computer again and I cannot find anything wrong.
I

 

[Darkbreeze]

What is the EXACT model of your "700w PSU"?

 

[Marty Poo]

What is the EXACT model of your "700w PSU"?

It is a Silent Pro Gold 700W PSU

 

[Darkbreeze]

And that unit is like at least ten years old, right? Because I know it hasn't been manufactured in a VERY long time, and all reviews of that unit are from around 2010.

 

[Marty Poo]

That is correct, but I am wondering whether the MB should have power to both CPU Power connectors ?

 

[Darkbreeze]

That has nothing to do with anything unless you are running a very high TDP i9 or are doing some serious overclocking.

I'd just about guarantee it's due to your PSU being like 8 years past it's five year warranty. And while that unit was ok for it's time, it was never a fantastic unit to begin with, so having a borderline "ok" unit that is like 13 years old, is a recipe for at least problems, if not outright disaster.

Get a new, high quality power supply. Don't go just off name brand. Don't go off of "Gold. Platinum. Titanium. Etc.", because the efficiency rating has little to nothing to do with whether a unit is good build quality or not. Make SURE it is a high quality unit by looking at units that are recommended in my guide, or listed in Tiers A or B on the PSU Cultists tier list, or have been given the thumbs up on one of the REPUTABLE tech review sites by Aris or another respected PSU reviewer.

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[zx128k]

The boot issue could be down to a RAM training issue. Worth checking if the RAM is booting at xmp after the failed boot. Also I have heard DDR5 can take awhile to train, so worth a few minutes.

Check RAM is in the motherboard QVL list.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The boot issue could be down to a RAM training issue. Worth checking if the RAM is booting at xmp after the failed boot. Also I have heard DDR5 can take awhile to train, so worth a few minutes.

Check RAM is in the motherboard QVL list.

It COULD, but it is MUCH less likely with an Intel based system than it would be if it were a Ryzen platform. Knowing the model of the memory kit would, as you say, be very helpful in determining if it is probable or unlikely, although, in any case it ALWAYS CAN be a memory problem in these kinds of cases. It's just not nearly as likely on Intel platforms as it is on AMD. Intel platforms are a LOT more forgiving.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though, especially, like I saw TWICE last week, if somebody is using a memory kit (Both were Trident Z Neos kits) intended for use with an AMD platform. Memory isn't "just memory" like it used to be. You NEED to get memory that was intended for and designed for your platform. You can certainly USUALLY make any "compatible" memory kit work, but you may not be able to do so without major gross adjustments to the speed, voltage and timings.

 

[zx128k]

It COULD, but it is MUCH less likely with an Intel based system than it would be if it were a Ryzen platform. Knowing the model of the memory kit would, as you say, be very helpful in determining if it is probable or unlikely, although, in any case it ALWAYS CAN be a memory problem in these kinds of cases. It's just not nearly as likely on Intel platforms as it is on AMD. Intel platforms are a LOT more forgiving.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though, especially, like I saw TWICE last week, if somebody is using a memory kit (Both were Trident Z Neos kits) intended for use with an AMD platform. Memory isn't "just memory" like it used to be. You NEED to get memory that was intended for and designed for your platform. You can certainly USUALLY make any "compatible" memory kit work, but you may not be able to do so without major gross adjustments to the speed, voltage and timings.

Its just the part were the OP states he needed to get a BIOS update for two sticks to work.

Since then sometimes the computer will boot, other times it will not and I have to remove the RAM from the B2 slot to get it to boot.

Seems there could be an issue with the RAM. Be worth finding out if one stick boots in the B2 slot without issues. Could be the motherboard supports one stick and not two. Or that slot is RIP. Worth finding out what the RAM is, so we can look it up in the QVL. Maybe the same IC's are supported with different timings.

 

[Marty Poo]

Its just the part were the OP states he needed to get a BIOS update for two sticks to work.


Seems there could be an issue with the RAM. Be worth finding out if one stick boots in the B2 slot without issues. Could be the motherboard supports one stick and not two. Or that slot is RIP. Worth finding out what the RAM is, so we can look it up in the QVL. Maybe the same IC's are supported with different timings.

The following RAM is fitted:
DDR5 PC5-44800(5600) CMK32GX5M2B5600C36

The RAM boots as XMP

Both RAMS work in the A2 slot
At the present time the computer will not boot with both RAMS fitted.
I have not tried booting with a RAM in the B2 slot only. Should it be able to boot in that configuration. Manual says that RAM should be fitted to A2 first.

 

[zx128k]

Checked your motherboard and two DIMMs are supported. Always insert memory modules in the DIMMA2 slot first. Then DIMMB2. Page 28. Will both DIMMs boot at 4800 or is it no post (reset BIOS to default)? Check that the DIMMs are seated correctly. If the RAM boots as a single DIMM only at 4800 and both DIMMs work fine without errors. Then I would focus on the motherboard as an issue.

You have supported memory, does one DIMM boot fine at 5600? Then dead to the world with two? When you boot each DIMM one at a time. Are the timings the same? Also sometimes it can take awhile to boot, DDR5 training can take awhile.

Source

Vendor	Model	DDR	SPD Speed (MHz)	Supported Speed (MHz)	Chipset	Voltage (V)	Sided	Size (GB)	1|2|4 DIMM
CORSAIR	CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 ver4.43.02	DDR5	4800	5600	Samsung B	1.25	SINGLE	16	√ | √ |

 

[Marty Poo]

Checked your motherboard and two DIMMs are supported. Always insert memory modules in the DIMMA2 slot first. Then DIMMB2. Page 28. Will both DIMMs boot at 4800 or is it no post (reset BIOS to default)? Check that the DIMMs are seated correctly. If the RAM boots as a single DIMM only at 4800 and both DIMMs work fine without errors. Then I would focus on the motherboard as an issue.

You have supported memory, does one DIMM boot fine at 5600? Then dead to the world with two? When you boot each DIMM one at a time. Are the timings the same? Also sometimes it can take awhile to boot, DDR5 training can take awhile.

Source

Vendor	Model	DDR	SPD Speed (MHz)	Supported Speed (MHz)	Chipset	Voltage (V)	Sided	Size (GB)	1|2|4 DIMM
CORSAIR	CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 ver4.43.02	DDR5	4800	5600	Samsung B	1.25	SINGLE	16	√ | √ |

If I put a RAM into B2 only the computer will not boot. At the present time the computer will only boot with a RAM in the A2 slot only.

 

[zx128k]

If I put a RAM into B2 only the computer will not boot. At the present time the computer will only boot with a RAM in the A2 slot only.

Try reseating the cpu and cooler. See if it helps. Make sure that the peasure is the same over all the cpu. Watch a video for your cooler if you need too. Sometimes you can get lucky.

The main issue is there is no other RAM kit we can try or parts we can swap.

 

[Richj444]

And take a close look at the pins in the CPU socket, under good light. Possibly with a magnifying glass. You need to be sure there are no bent pins there, that can cause issues like this.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Exactly right guys. Take it apart, make sure there are no bent pins, not even slightly deformed compared to all others.

Make sure mounting pressure for CPU cooler is even all the way around, because a CPU cooler that is unevenly tightened, being tighter on one side or one corner than the others, can make the CPU act as though it had bent pins because it can get "cocked" in the socket.

Always use the A2 slot for single DIMMs and the A2 + B2 for two DIMMs, EXCEPT that on some few scattered ASUS boards they've gone off the deep end and changed things up on some of their models but not on others. So always check the manual for the population rules because there are a few ASUS boards (And there could be others, but I haven't seen one yet except for ASUS) where the population rules state to use the B2 slot first, but in any case for two DIMMs it is always A2+B2. If you have to do ANYTHING other than that when using two DIMMs, then there is a problem with either the memory, the motherboard, the CPU or something else. I've even seen weak power supplies cause similar problems.

 

[Marty Poo]

Exactly right guys. Take it apart, make sure there are no bent pins, not even slightly deformed compared to all others.

Make sure mounting pressure for CPU cooler is even all the way around, because a CPU cooler that is unevenly tightened, being tighter on one side or one corner than the others, can make the CPU act as though it had bent pins because it can get "cocked" in the socket.

Always use the A2 slot for single DIMMs and the A2 + B2 for two DIMMs, EXCEPT that on some few scattered ASUS boards they've gone off the deep end and changed things up on some of their models but not on others. So always check the manual for the population rules because there are a few ASUS boards (And there could be others, but I haven't seen one yet except for ASUS) where the population rules state to use the B2 slot first, but in any case for two DIMMs it is always A2+B2. If you have to do ANYTHING other than that when using two DIMMs, then there is a problem with either the memory, the motherboard, the CPU or something else. I've even seen weak power supplies cause similar problems.

I have removed the cooler and CPU, no bent pins, Re-fitted CPU and cooler, inserted the RAM into A2 & B2, computer did not boot straight away however when I applied a little bit of pressure to one side of the cooler evryhting worked and the computer booted up,
The cooler is a MSI MAG 240mm CoreLiquid 240R V2 , I had tightened down the spring loaded screws in the correct order, I will have to wait and see if the problem re-occurs and then confirm if it is the cooler doing this. then working out a better way of tightening it down. Has anyone else had this problem with a cooler?

 

[zx128k]

I have removed the cooler and CPU, no bent pins, Re-fitted CPU and cooler, inserted the RAM into A2 & B2, computer did not boot straight away however when I applied a little bit of pressure to one side of the cooler evryhting worked and the computer booted up,
The cooler is a MSI MAG 240mm CoreLiquid 240R V2 , I had tightened down the spring loaded screws in the correct order, I will have to wait and see if the problem re-occurs and then confirm if it is the cooler doing this. then working out a better way of tightening it down. Has anyone else had this problem with a cooler?

Yes.