Question Computer doesn't shutdown after shutdown, doesn't boot back up after turning off ?

SocialJustice

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I stuck my computer in sleep mode the other day and it refused to wake up, after being unable to power it down from the power button I had to turn it off from the PSU. After spending all day trying to get it to boot, removing every part and testing it one by one along with shorting the power button pins and flashing the BIOS it didn't work until I left it for a few hours and it booted itself up in the night. I had this problem again the next day but it took slightly less then an hour for me to boot it up (just clicked the boot button and turned on)
Last night I went to shut down my computer before I went to bed, the computer had closed down windows, but the fans continued to spin and it refused to power down from the power button. I had to again kill power to it from the PSU.

I've read online that this issue could be related to my window power options, my graphic drivers and a few other parts. one thing I'd like to mention is that each time I've booted the computer I've flashed the BIOS, so the time had been incorrect.

Currently I'm looking for suggestions on how to power on my PC. I've tried a new PSU but it doesn't work, and cant really wait for it to decide to turn on like last time. I'll link to my previous thread on this PC.


I noticed this issue after installing my new graphic card, but removing it still wont causes the computer to boot.

Part List:
Case: Be Quiet Pro 900
motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX B550-E GAMING
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
PSU: 750 W TX750M Gold
RAM: Corsair RGB 16GB (x4)
Graphic Card: MSI GeForce RTX 3060 VENTUS 2X

Any suggestions are welcome., I'd like to avoid taking it to the shop if possible.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Two paths to take:

1) Look in Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, or even informational events that you can match to the shutdown failures.

2) Run "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

References:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-dism-command-line-utility-repair-windows-10-image

= = = =

Power down, unplug, open the case.

Verify by sight and feel that all cards, connectors, RAM, jumpers, and case connections are fully and firmly in place.

Inspect for signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, pinched/kinked wires, cracks anywhere, browned or blackened components, etc..

Take a close look that the case panel connections.
 

SocialJustice

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Two paths to take:

1) Look in Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, or even informational events that you can match to the shutdown failures.

2) Run "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

References:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-dism-command-line-utility-repair-windows-10-image

= = = =

Power down, unplug, open the case.

Verify by sight and feel that all cards, connectors, RAM, jumpers, and case connections are fully and firmly in place.

Inspect for signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, pinched/kinked wires, cracks anywhere, browned or blackened components, etc..

Take a close look that the case panel connections.
Hi, thank you for your reply. I've tested the hardware/connectors by using a different case panel which failed to work. I've checked all the connections are in place and removed parts to check again, everything appears and feels properly plugged in. I can see that the device has power going through it due to the LED's working correctly. as I mentioned before I cant boot the device, hitting the on button doesn't even cause fan spin, so doing your first suggestion is impossible currently.

If you have any suggestions that I can do without having the device booted please let me know.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
This motherboard?

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/ROG_STRIX_B550-E_GAMING/E16546_ROG_STRIX_B550-E_GAMING_UM_WEB.pdf

[Verify that I found the applicable User Manual.]

Any Q-LED's lit up per Page 1-23?

Any Q-Codes errors via the Q-Code LED?

Are you able to access BIOS?

Try booting into safe mode.

Try clearing CMOS per Page 1-17.

As a matter of elimination try a new fresh CMOS battery.

= = = =

How old is the PSU? History of heavy use for gaming, video editing, or even bit-mining?
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Possibly a faulty psu. Yes it can happen, even with a decent unit like the TXM.

Sleep mode has several stages, C0 is awake and working, C1-3 is sleep where equipment is put into idle state or off, C4-5 is where most things are basically shut down totally, C6-7 is where everything is shutdown and the CPU is at its lowest possible voltage, the only thing left functional is the windows timers function like waking up the pc by mouse or keyboard.

Older psus can have issues with that ultra low power state, even the TXM if it's an older version, pre-2017 model, where the psu cannot deal with just the timers, so doesn't wake up. That can and will drain the cmos battery.

Pulling the plug/shutting down by switch should almost instantly erase any settings proscribed and reset the psu, should be an audible click, as far as the psu is concerned it's restarting from Standby mode at full power.

If it doesn't, the switch internally is hanging up and not resetting as it should.

The other possibility is bad motherboard. It has a switch to change from line power to cmos battery power. If that switch is stuck, or sticking, it'll drain the cmos battery. Normally, even if the pc is off, it's not truly off, the psu still supplies power to the mobo and USB. That includes the cmos chip. The battery isn't used except when the plug is pulled/psu switched off manually. If that motherboard switch is stuck, the battery will either be constantly powering cmos, or doesn't power cmos at all.

If cmos loses power, the clocks revert to the default time, usually 12pm from several years ago.

Replacing the battery will be a temporary fix, if the psu or motherboard switches are sticking, this'll happen again. Soon.
 

SocialJustice

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This motherboard?

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/ROG_STRIX_B550-E_GAMING/E16546_ROG_STRIX_B550-E_GAMING_UM_WEB.pdf

[Verify that I found the applicable User Manual.]

Any Q-LED's lit up per Page 1-23?

Any Q-Codes errors via the Q-Code LED?

Are you able to access BIOS?

Try booting into safe mode.

Try clearing CMOS per Page 1-17.

As a matter of elimination try a new fresh CMOS battery.

= = = =

How old is the PSU? History of heavy use for gaming, video editing, or even bit-mining?
Hi, the PSU is a few months old, I do play games with it but I've only been using it for less then a week. I've tried swapping out the PSU to see if that would get it to boot but that didn't work. I've been using swapped out the CMOS battery twice now, its booted with them before. I cant turn the device on so no access to safe mode, BIOS or Q-code posting. Yes it is this motherboard, I've shorted it as shown in the manual but it hasn't done anything.


Possibly a faulty psu. Yes it can happen, even with a decent unit like the TXM.

Sleep mode has several stages, C0 is awake and working, C1-3 is sleep where equipment is put into idle state or off, C4-5 is where most things are basically shut down totally, C6-7 is where everything is shutdown and the CPU is at its lowest possible voltage, the only thing left functional is the windows timers function like waking up the pc by mouse or keyboard.

Older psus can have issues with that ultra low power state, even the TXM if it's an older version, pre-2017 model, where the psu cannot deal with just the timers, so doesn't wake up. That can and will drain the cmos battery.

Pulling the plug/shutting down by switch should almost instantly erase any settings proscribed and reset the psu, should be an audible click, as far as the psu is concerned it's restarting from Standby mode at full power.

If it doesn't, the switch internally is hanging up and not resetting as it should.

The other possibility is bad motherboard. It has a switch to change from line power to cmos battery power. If that switch is stuck, or sticking, it'll drain the cmos battery. Normally, even if the pc is off, it's not truly off, the psu still supplies power to the mobo and USB. That includes the cmos chip. The battery isn't used except when the plug is pulled/psu switched off manually. If that motherboard switch is stuck, the battery will either be constantly powering cmos, or doesn't power cmos at all.

If cmos loses power, the clocks revert to the default time, usually 12pm from several years ago.

Replacing the battery will be a temporary fix, if the psu or motherboard switches are sticking, this'll happen again. Soon.
The case has an external PSU shroud(?), that plugs into the PSU, then you plug the cable into that, it might be possible that because of this it hasn't been resetting?. I've only just started using the PSU (then a week of use, brand new bought a few months ago) and tried to boot it from my old PSU to no avail. It sound possible that the switch could be stuck, is there a way to correct this; would booting it without the CMOS work? as I've mentioned before its booted up twice before, once by itself. I've stuck a different CMOS battery in to see if that will do anything. if needs be I can triple check everything attempting to switching PSU. the CMOS batteries I'm using are not the ones that came with the board, as I removed it in a previous troubleshoot and haven't located it. Its booted with both CMOS batteries before though so I know they functioned.

Thank you both for your replies.
 
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Ralston18

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SocialJustice

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Are you able to take a couple of photographs showing that external PSU shroud and connecting cables.

Post the photographs here via imgur (www.imgur.com).

Also: about the CMOS batteries: what make and numeric designation on the battery? Where are you purchasing the batteries?

This PSU?

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-TX750M-Certified-Modular-Supply/dp/B00FZLD2O0

Did you use or otherwise connect in cables from other PSUs?
Hi, I'll get you some photos soon, but to show you what I'm talking about I'll link the manual.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1267313/Be-Quiet-Dark-Base-Pro-900.html?page=7#manual - Its G, titled Power Adapter Bracket, I wasn't sure what to call it.

As for the CMOS batteries, they're old ones I've piffled from old motherboards. I'm unsure exactly what your referring to with the numeric designation, but I'll give you what I think your referring to:

In Black on two of them I have 891 and 252 and written into the metal I have CR2032.

As for the PSU that is the same one, and I've only used the one connectors that came with that PSU.

Thanks for the reply, I'll try and get a picture of it soon.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
CR2032 is a very commonly used CMOS battery. However as "pilfered batteries" (commonly done) they may be beyond their prime. I suggest trying new fresh CR2032.

Not sure what the 891 and 252 may mean but they do not appear to be a battery type/equivalent.

The pictures will be helpful. I took a look at the case manual but not really able to visualize that "external shroud".
 

SocialJustice

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CR2032 is a very commonly used CMOS battery. However as "pilfered batteries" (commonly done) they may be beyond their prime. I suggest trying new fresh CR2032.

Not sure what the 891 and 252 may mean but they do not appear to be a battery type/equivalent.

The pictures will be helpful. I took a look at the case manual but not really able to visualize that "external shroud".
Hi, I think the 891 and 252 are just production numbers, nothing that matters for us. I'll see if I can find the old one.

View: https://imgur.com/a/0ANexyE
here is what the PSU looks like. its an external plug that you plug into your PSU, then you plug your actual power cord into that. the word "shroud" was a poor choice on my part, Power Adapter Bracket is a better description. I've been turning it off through this, so maybe this has caused some kind of issue.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Not concerned about the semantics per se.

Unfortunately I do not understand or otherwise recognize what is being shown in that photograph. Maybe a bit "too close"...?

Curious: are you shutting Windows down via the power icon and, if not, what is the reason for not doing so?

Or, as another question, what is forcing you to shut down via that Power Adapter Bracket?

I.e., turning the system off as is being done with regards to the photograph. Maybe literally pulling the plug or shutting off some switch.

Windows requires a proper shutdown in order to do housecleaning and otherwise set up for the next boot.

If power is lost or cut off before or without that proper shutdown process then files get corrupted, data is lost, and all sorts of problems can result.
 

Karadjgne

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That case is modular to the extreme, can even turn it backwards and use a BTX with glass panel on the Right side, instead of the normal left side. As such, there's no permanent chosen spot for the psu, so BQ uses an adapter bracket to convert the back of the psu to the modular rail holes. It's basically the same concept as the ATX to SFX adapter plate.
 

SocialJustice

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Not concerned about the semantics per se.

Unfortunately I do not understand or otherwise recognize what is being shown in that photograph. Maybe a bit "too close"...?

Curious: are you shutting Windows down via the power icon and, if not, what is the reason for not doing so?

Or, as another question, what is forcing you to shut down via that Power Adapter Bracket?

I.e., turning the system off as is being done with regards to the photograph. Maybe literally pulling the plug or shutting off some switch.

Windows requires a proper shutdown in order to do housecleaning and otherwise set up for the next boot.

If power is lost or cut off before or without that proper shutdown process then files get corrupted, data is lost, and all sorts of problems can result.
Hi, maybe this video of assembly will help you understand, The case has a power cord built into it, the PSU sits inside the case and cant be easily accessed. because of this you have plug the power cord that is apart of the case INTO the PSU. the case has a connection for a power cord to be plugged into it.
View: https://youtu.be/jE474emIfWM?t=261


The reason I have to turn if off from the PSU is because when I click shutdown, the entire system continues to run still. this isn't the "power down" it usually has, it will continue until I turn the power off. Sticking it into sleep has a similar issue where I cant turn it off by hitting the power button on the case or holding it. I wont be able to interact with the device at all when its like this, it gives no output, no sound, the keyboard is doesn't do anything.

I'm aware that power loss can deal problems, but the problem is that It doesn't shutdown when shutting down. and after it does this It wont boot back up. I've tested it when it worked and I could turn off my device if I didn't have prolonged use (having it on for a few minutes). The first time it had this issue it booted itself randomly hours later, the second time it booted after an hour of shutting it down from the power, and this time it has refused to boot for two days.

Right now I'm just hoping to get it booting, I'll try and get ahold of a new CMOS or find the original one that came with the motherboard.
 

SocialJustice

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That case is modular to the extreme, can even turn it backwards and use a BTX with glass panel on the Right side, instead of the normal left side. As such, there's no permanent chosen spot for the psu, so BQ uses an adapter bracket to convert the back of the psu to the modular rail holes. It's basically the same concept as the ATX to SFX adapter plate.
This Basically. I'm assuming that if turning the PSU off causes a trigger, so turning it off from the adapter bracket could of caused issues? I'll mention that two things I've noticed is this issue has only happened when the time on my computer had been updated/corrected automatically, and since I've had my 3060 installed. leaving the system barebones doesn't cause a boot still, so the switch idea is something I think is likely.
 

Karadjgne

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If windows is not shutting down on command, that's a windows issue, not a hardware issue. If windows is not waking after sleep, and sleep settings are correct, then that's either a hardware issue or windows issue.

Hard shutdowns can corrupt data, just making everything worse, hardware causing windows issues.

Try unplugging the drive data/nvme and clear cmos. That removes any and all data/startup software, the pc should boot to bios with no drives found.
 

SocialJustice

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If windows is not shutting down on command, that's a windows issue, not a hardware issue. If windows is not waking after sleep, and sleep settings are correct, then that's either a hardware issue or windows issue.

Hard shutdowns can corrupt data, just making everything worse, hardware causing windows issues.

Try unplugging the drive data/nvme and clear cmos. That removes any and all data/startup software, the pc should boot to bios with no drives found.
Hi, clearing the cmos and unplugging all data drives hasn't done anything. I'm still going to try and get ahold of a new CMOS to test that.
 

CompuGuy71

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Hi, I'm going to assume the board is dead and order a new one unless someone advices me something that works by the end of today. I think there's a good chance the board has just died.
Just reading through everything the others have mentioned and your replies I think that is the most likely culprit.
 

SocialJustice

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Just reading through everything the others have mentioned and your replies I think that is the most likely culprit.
Yeah, it kind of sucks because it was could clear see that 1; it could be reversed, and two; something seemed to be triggering it. I could take it to get repaired, but at that point I'm spending maybe £100 to get something repaired that might not last long enough anyway, might not get fixed, and I cant afford to risk spending money on. Will have to buy the cheaper version of this board which sucks because the Q-code system was useful for figuring out when the ram was causing issues.
 

SocialJustice

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Update: Got a new motherboard and no boot, no fan spin, nothing. I'm pretty sure even with a dead CPU I'd get fan spin, theres a small chance that the pump system isn't working, so I'm going to try and get my hands on a old fan to see if that will get it working.

Update: The CPU is most likely dead. I'm going to take a it to a store where they will give a diagnostic.
 
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